What do YOU say to peeps about the court - Page 3

[shuttlt]

Originally Posted by Nature

I really had no idea that the general public at large attributed autism to vaccines.

In the UK, in the media, that IS the entire vaccine debate. Actually, no, MMR causes autism is the entire debate. Mercury gets touched on once in a while in the context of the US, but really well over 50% of the concerns expressed on this forum are effectively never touched on.

[Jadzia]

Originally Posted by talk de jour

Andrew Wakefield is a proven falsifier of data. He is not an unbiased source.

"Proven" by who? Journalist Brian Deer? He is not unbiased either.

[runes]

Simpsonwood

Puerto Rico part 1 part 2

[PaigeC]

Originally Posted by JadasMommy<3

i read there is less aluminum in vaccines than there is in a liter of soymilk, so i dont get why you'd be concerned about the amount of aluminum. if you showed me evidence that this amount was harmful or why injecting a small amount of it into muscle is worse than eating the same amount of it, then maybe i'd take you seriously. healthy people are supposedly pretty good at eliminating small amounts of aluminum from the body.

This has been discussed previously on the boards and is well documented by mothering too:
http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr...himerosal.html

[madamlady]

Originally Posted by PaigeC

This has been discussed previously on the boards and is well documented by mothering too:
http://www.mothering.com/articles/gr...himerosal.html

i'm sure it's been discussed here but i'm also sure there's not any evidence that the amount of aluminum is vaccines is dangerous when injected into a healthy person.

the mothering article speculates that maybe if your child had something wrong with his kidneys, maybe then they wouldn't be as able to remove aluminum from his body. ok, but not sure what this has to do with most of us and even then i would like to see some proof that what is stated occurs and has consequences. also, if the author made a claim and backed it up with a mechanism once in a while i could take him more seriously, but he hasn't done that. there's a reason he doesn't get this stuff published in peer-reviewed journals. aluminum neurotoxicity is dose-dependent.

we can study neurotoxicity in animals but beyond that i'm not sure what kind of study you all want to see. we can't exactly inject babies with aluminum containing vaccines and then slice up their brains to check for an increase in neuronal death. however, you can deduce that since animals injected with aluminum-containing vaccines don't accumulate aluminum in their brains, we don't either.

[Deborah]

Okay. The problem is that the animals haven't been injected with aluminum and their brains haven't been sliced up. Unless you have a study to submit that documents this?

There is a well-known paper by Dr. Offit, claiming that all of the vaccine ingredients are safe in the amounts used. On aluminum, the paper he cites looked at adult mice who were FED aluminum.

If people are arguing that the amount of aluminum in vaccines is safe, they ought to be able to present papers that at least show animals being injected with aluminum and either clearing it or not.

This is a board where a lot of people do not vaccinate or selectively vaccinate. If anyone is trying to convince this group to change their vaccination patterns, it behooves them to present the evidence.

My opinion? If you are convinced that vaccines are safe, go ahead and vaccinate your children. If you want to change my mind, go ahead and present the evidence. I don't think it exists. I think Dr. Sears was correct when he said that he searched for the evidence and couldn't find it.

And a connection between Dr. Sears and Dr. Wakefield doesn't prove that Dr. Sears is dishonest. Let me quickly run through the possible permutations here:

1. Dr. Sears knows that Dr. Wakefield did bad stuff and he is in favor of fraud. (this seems to be what is implied above).

2. Dr. Sears believes that Dr. Wakefield did not do anything bad. This is a reasonable position shared by lots of people who have looked at the background of the case.

3. Dr. Wakefield did do something bad, but Dr. Sears doesn't realize the awful truth. See item 2.

A simple association between two people doesn't prove much.

I was once friends with a criminal. This didn't make me a criminal. It didn't turn me into a liar, either, although my friend lied all the time. I eventually caught on and ended the friendship.

I have also had friends who were accused of wrongdoing. Not all accusations are correct, you know.