Raising Our Children, Raising Ourselves -Chapter 2 - Page 2

[green_momma2007]

Originally Posted by foodmachine

I guess what I'm getting at is that with a toddler offering an distraction isn't wrong if you validate first. Thoughts?

Any last thoughts on "Love"?

I'm still only halfway through the chapter, so I'll be posting later today...

[green_momma2007]

I'm liking this chapter...but Aldort's case studies are really starting to annoy me. She makes the parents out to be bumbling idiots who are unwilling slaves to their past. I just don't think every issue I may have with my child stems from some repressed experience I had with my parents. Life is a little more complicated than that.
I know a PP had already touched on this, but I just had to vent.

[foodmachine]

Yes, the case study thing is over the top and I'm afraid it continues in Chapter 3. I have written in the margins, "This is too much!". But I'm trying to not let it get to me since I'm liking other stuff.

On p. 91 Aldort writes "When a child sees you succumbing to emotional limitations she does not learn about self-love, but about weakness and fear." I must admit feeling worried about my limitations and their potentially damaging capabilites. I don't ever lose my patience with DD (not yet at least). It's grown-ups I need to SALVE. I guess it's time to get working on it.

Can we open Chapter 3 for discussion at the end of this week?

[green_momma2007]

I only have a couple more pages to finish chapter 2, so we can move on to chapter 3 in the next few days.
What happened to everyone else???? Is it just me and foodmachine????

[calendulamama]

Hi- I'd love to join in if I could. I picked up the book a few days ago and came looking at MDC to see if anyone had ever discussed it, and here y'all are!
I am really enjoying some aspects of this book. Although the validating emotions seems so obvious and something I guess I thought I was doing, I am realizing how hard it is, and how often I brush off DS1's intense emotions. Our hardest issue is adjusting to the new baby (almost 5 months, so not so new anymore!) and I realize that I have never just aknowledged what he must be feeling. But it is hard! It does feel like I might be telling him it is okay to hurt the baby by validating his anger- yet I know this isn't true. I also find the idea of seperating my own silent self-talk from the situation both obvious and profound.

But I am finding parts of the book difficult. The therapy sessions have been mentioned (I felt annoyed and yet drawn to them and read ahead through the book to see if they are all like that, and yes, they are! The ones with kids are especially hard to swallow. If only my toddler would say -"oh, I realized I made a big drama out of this!") I also find the general tone difficult. I'm see a lot of truth to what she is saying, but I tend to believe there is more going on for kids that just a met and un met needs.

Anyway, I'm glad to have found you here and would love to keep discussing this book with you!

[edamama]

Sorry for my absence, it's been a busy week! But I've finished the chapter and here are a few thoughts:

I'm having a hard time with the "your thoughts are not you" idea. If my thoughts aren't me, who am I? What works better for me is to realize that my feelings (usually frustration) aren't going to change anything, they are only making me be in a bad mood, so I just decide to not have that feeling. It doesn't always work, but it is helping at bedtime while I am just laying next to DD while she tugs, tugs, tugs at my ear (it's her lovey).

On p. 47 it talks about meeting your child's needs. "Dishes can wait; his soul cannot." I definitely need to work on this, I just feel like I can never get anything done. How do you manage to do chores and spend quality time with your LOs?

How is this book affecting your thoughts about your parents? It's hard for me to look critically at how I was raised, I feel like my mom did the best she could.

I've tried explaining parts of this book to my DH, and he seems to get it, but doesn't really change his actions so far. Do you talk with your DH/DPs about the ideas in this book?

[edamama]

Originally Posted by foodmachine

I was really struck by p. 54 (bottom) about respecting the child's body. No kisses from Grandpa if the child doesn't want them. By respecting their right to receive affection on their terms, we are actually strengthening their right to say "no!" So obvious! So important!

In another book, maybe Connection Parenting, it talks about this and suggests giving high fives as an alternative. I am teaching DD to do this with her friends, one in particular doesn't like hugs, so they give high fives instead.

Originally Posted by green_momma2007

In pages 61-64 Aldort discusses the fallacy of trying to raise children as if we were part of a tribe. I haven't yet read The continuum Concept by Jean Liedloff, but it seems to me that Aldort is taking aim at that particular take on parenting, particularly with her arguments on being child centered and on having kids watch while we engage in adult activities. Any thoughts on this?

I agree with you. And while reading this part, what Aldort said made total sense to me, but when I think about it later, I'm not sure...

Originally Posted by foodmachine

I guess what I'm getting at is that with a toddler offering an distraction isn't wrong if you validate first. Thoughts?

I like this, I wasn't sure about the distraction thing, like I mentioned in the ch. 1 thread, but this makes total sense to me.

[Momalea]

I am not currently reading this book but I have read it and was interested in this thread. I find Naomi Aldort's work (book and newsletters) to be inspiring and irritating and thought provoking.

Naomi Aldort is very inspired/influenced by Byron Katie (http://www.thework.com/index.asp). I realized this after I read a couple of Byron Katie's books then re-read some of Naomi Aldort's work. It helped me understand Aldort's approach more after having read Katie. Byron Katie is all about "your thoughts are not you".

Okay, end of my hijack. Thanks for letting contribute.

[Keeta]

I'm still here, just been done with this chapter for a long while, so I'm waiting to move to 3.

As for "Your thoughts are not you" - this is also a fundamental Buddhist teaching, from what I understand. The whole goal of some (most?) types of meditation is to be a silent observer of your thoughts - and to realize that they are, in fact, not you. One of my meditation teachers explained it like this: You are in a dark room, and you have a flashlight (in this instance, your mind is the ceiling of the room). Normally, a thought arises and you point the flashlight at that thought as if there is nothing else there - it's laser beam focused on that thought. But what if you were able to broaden the scope of your flashlight's beam - take in more than just the thought arising in this very moment? Take in your environment, your body's sensations, the knowledge that nothing is permanent. You might find that the thought arising is not true, or it's only a little true, or it's true but it doesn't mean you should react to the thought, etc. You can be honest about the emotions you are experiencing without taking the thought as "the truth." I'm not sure that makes sense, but that's my take.

[foodmachine]

Originally Posted by allielb

On p. 47 it talks about meeting your child's needs. "Dishes can wait; his soul cannot." I definitely need to work on this, I just feel like I can never get anything done. How do you manage to do chores and spend quality time with your LOs?

We prioritize DD over chores and understand that sometimes the house will not be tip top. DH is dishes, I'm laundry, we take turns with cooking. We do these things wearing DD or we have her in the high chair "helping" us cook or wash up or have her on the floor with some pots and pans. Dusting, vaccuming, mopping and the bathroom get done when one of us takes DD out of the house, i.e DH and DD go swimming, I do one floor, I go to a play group, DH does another floor, etc. The house is not "Better Homes and Gardens" but it's healthy

[QUOTE=allielb;13300140]
How is this book affecting your thoughts about your parents? It's hard for me to look critically at how I was raised, I feel like my mom did the best she could.QUOTE]

My Mom did her best given the situation. I'm sad she (we) missed out on so much and I'm glad I can offer DD more.

Originally Posted by allielb

I've tried explaining parts of this book to my DH, and he seems to get it, but doesn't really change his actions so far. Do you talk with your DH/DPs about the ideas in this book?

I highlight some key points and read them to DH (in the car or something)after I've finished a chapter. He listens and gives me his take on it. We want to use the same approach. He's very open to learning as long I'm not preachy. I just share info and we talk about it how could apply it. Like Aldort says, "teach no one but yourself." I need that advice. I'm a teacher by profession and nature.

[green_momma2007]

Originally Posted by allielb

How is this book affecting your thoughts about your parents? It's hard for me to look critically at how I was raised, I feel like my mom did the best she could.

I've tried explaining parts of this book to my DH, and he seems to get it, but doesn't really change his actions so far. Do you talk with your DH/DPs about the ideas in this book?

The book has not had much effect on how I view my parents, because I know they did the best they could, and that they love me, and want what's best for me, even if we don't always see eye to eye. Which is why it irritates me that Aldort basically seems to blame all world evils on parenting. Like if you don't get it 100% right your children are going to be scarred for life.

Regarding my DH, I haven't even tried to discuss the book with him. He is very very mainstream, so I'm pretty sure he would consider most of the ideas in the book silly.
Yesterday I was having a rough evening. I was trying to finish some diapers that I need to mail out today and DS2 threw Cheerios all over the floor (like the entire box). I ended up screaming at him, and he reacted by saying that I had "scared" him.
When I told my husband about it and how crappy I felt afterwards, he just shrugged it off and said DS2 was supposed to feel that way after making a mess and getting scolded.

[foodmachine]

Sorry you didn't get the support you needed from DH Green_mama.

Welcome taimarie and momalea!

[green_momma2007]

Ok, I think we're all done with chapter 2 so I'm going to start the chapter 3 thread. See you all there!

[Keeta]

Here's the link for Chapter 3 Discussion.

[Super Glue Mommy]

This book has been hard for me to read. It's definitely more challenging to my way of thinking then anything else I have ever read. I try to practice it, but I can't seem to stay calm and I feel like I'm becoming angrier and wanting LESS to be around my children
I think it's just a matter of there being a LOT of my own childhood hurt to heal.

I couldn't help but notice, at the top of page 50 she describes a "phone counseling session" she had. That same session ends at the bottom of page 51-top of page 52 saying "at the end of the session, amanda and her father showed up at the door. Kara sprang out of her seat and hugged amanda for a long time, tears running down her cheeks"

So I am guessing she was told about this in retrospect because you can't see that over the phone? Okay I know that is a silly thing to get caught up in but the wording really bothered me lol

I like the example of Ya-Fei that was in the section about relieving the fear to give guidance. I also really liked the discussion about Pete and Sandy, in the section of fear of losing control. I am working on trying to control my life without controlling others in it. The example of the child who wanted to be fed would not have bothered me even before getting to this point (I dont mind playing "baby" with my older toddlers) but what I did learn from that passage was how sometimes we project ourselves onto our children. I have heard people speak of it before, but I didnt really understand until reading that passage. How the mother thought her son was being contrary, but then realized it was she who was contrary. When I read that passage, it was as if a bunch of things finally just added up for me. A new clarity.

As for my thoughts on distraction I don't think its distraction if you validate first. You arent distracting them away from their feelings or desires or needs. You have acknowledged them and accepted them. Then you move forward to find a solution. I think the reason why some people feel that a mutually agreeable solution can't be reached is because they didnt finish the validation step... Once you are able to make it clear to a child that something has to be done (or can't be done) and let them express ALL their feelings on the subject until they trust you know and then they can put it behind them, with that behind them, they are more then willing to find out how to make something they have to do better for them....

[foodmachine]

Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy

This book has been hard for me to read. It's definitely more challenging to my way of thinking then anything else I have ever read. I try to practice it, but I can't seem to stay calm and I feel like I'm becoming angrier and wanting LESS to be around my children
I think it's just a matter of there being a LOT of my own childhood hurt to heal.

This book has made me realize I have a lot of work I want to do with ME. DD is so little, so I practice on DH (I have patience with kids, it's adults that drive me nuts!) I too found myself getting angrier than before. I decided it was my stubborn old ways not wanting to be threatened. I looked up some methods of staying present in stressful situations (breath, note your surroundings, note your body posture, etc). Now I actually have some index cards around the house with reminder notes of what I'm working on and why and things to do ,i.e, "I have a great partner who shares my goals", "Breathe", "open your hands", "the present moment is the only thing you have control over" and "this is a house where it's ok for things to go wrong". It has helped me a lot.

Try to view those angry moments as opportunities to practice all your new stuff. Good luck mama.

[doublyblessed]

Originally Posted by foodmachine

Oh, I hear ya'! I'm a "little" competitive.

I was really struck by p. 54 (bottom) about respecting the child's body. No kisses from Grandpa if the child doesn't want them. By respecting their right to receive affection on their terms, we are actually strengthening their right to say "no!" So obvious! So important!

here i am again, a tad bit belated...and again, i hope any other latecomers will join me!

i had forgotten this part of the book...and i totally agree w/ this. i cringed when my moms (now-ex ) boyfriend would refer to himself as 'grandpa' to my dc (he's only 49! i'm 38! my mom is 62!) and it just felt creepy and weird.

another thing he did was frequently ask my dd if HE could have a hug. not can i give YOU a hug or do YOU need or want a hug...it was always about HIM. and he had this syrupy nicey-nice way of talking...like baby talk...oh how i despised that! i had told my dd that at ANY time she could tell him NO...that she doesn't need to hug him or anyone just because they ask for one. i told her about saying NO or STOP if she ever did not feel right about someone touching her or asking something from her physically. when she wouldn't hug him he'd pout and guilt trip her IMHO w/ that pout. grrr! lemme tell you, this mama bear wanted to claw his eyes out!

i worried he may be 'grooming' her for some future sexual molestation. i'm glad he's out of the picture... it just did NOT feel right to me.

anyway, my point is that i truly believe adults, especially, should ask children if they would like a hug...or say something like 'would you like to hug'? i definitely agree w/ naomi on this one...

[doublyblessed]

[QUOTE=Super Glue Mommy;13489459]This book has been hard for me to read. It's definitely more challenging to my way of thinking then anything else I have ever read. I try to practice it, but I can't seem to stay calm and I feel like I'm becoming angrier and wanting LESS to be around my children
I think it's just a matter of there being a LOT of my own childhood hurt to heal.

I couldn't help but notice, at the top of page 50 she describes a "phone counseling session" she had. That same session ends at the bottom of page 51-top of page 52 saying "at the end of the session, amanda and her father showed up at the door. Kara sprang out of her seat and hugged amanda for a long time, tears running down her cheeks"

So I am guessing she was told about this in retrospect because you can't see that over the phone? Okay I know that is a silly thing to get caught up in but the wording really bothered me lol

QUOTE]

yes, i think naomi probably heard her crying after she came back to the phone or the woman carried the phone while hugging amanda...? naomi is a genuine, authentic woman...i've had phone sessions w/ her...she really is a sweet person. i definitely do not think her examples are phoney...exact that they ARE phoney since they were over a phone...ahhhhhahahaha! get it!!? oh, my humor...