feeling pressured

[natty529]

ds is almost 9 months old, he hasn't had any vaxes at all. every time we go into the ped and she asks me if he is getting vaxed it just doesn't feel right. we haven't decided yet if we are going to do it at all.

so a couple days ago our very dear friend sat us down and started talking about how some of our friends are concerned that we haven't vaxed ds, that they are afraid to have their children around him and that we ought to start lying and saying that we are vaxing to prevent our ds form becoming a pariah in our social circle!!

the really weird thing is that dh and i don't remember talking to anyone about this subject... the whole thing seems so odd to us. i didn't think it was anyone's business AND if people wanted to know... why talk behind our backs?

has anyone dealt with anything like this?

[rmzbm]

You're right to do NOTHING until you are 100% sure. You cannot take them back, you can always vax later.
Re: your friends - I would make a decision to NOT discuss it. Ever. Tell them it's not up for discussion EVERY SINGLE TIME. Personally, if people stayed away from me cuz I don't vax...bye!
Or just change the subject totally. Don't discuss. None of their business. Or ask them personal questions in response.
You need to stop this, it's stressful and it's BS.
Good luck!

[madamlady]

yeah, i don't know why people would be afraid to have their kids around yours but i think your friend is right that this could happen. i also don't think that you are right to sit around and wait on this decision. waiting itself is a decision and i don't really understand why you would make a decision that goes against the experts' if you aren't informed yet. i don't think you should leave medical decisions up to "feelings" or the internet.

[shuttlt]

Originally Posted by natty529

ds is almost 9 months old, he hasn't had any vaxes at all. every time we go into the ped and she asks me if he is getting vaxed it just doesn't feel right. we haven't decided yet if we are going to do it at all.

Unfortunately there is no not making a decision here. Either you vax (scheduled, or whatever), or you don't. To some degree my reasons for vaxing are about as clear as yours for not.

Originally Posted by natty529

so a couple days ago our very dear friend sat us down and started talking about how some of our friends are concerned that we haven't vaxed ds, that they are afraid to have their children around him and that we ought to start lying and saying that we are vaxing to prevent our ds form becoming a pariah in our social circle!!

I wouldn't really encourage lying to them. If you did and were discovered, they might very well take the view that you were taking the right to make informed decisions about their childrens health away from them. If you respect your friends, you'll respect their fears for their children. Hopefully they will do the same for you.

Originally Posted by natty529

the really weird thing is that dh and i don't remember talking to anyone about this subject... the whole thing seems so odd to us. i didn't think it was anyone's business AND if people wanted to know... why talk behind our backs?

It's a pity people have been talking behind your back. At least they have now decideed to talk to you about it. Hopefully this is an indication that they value your friendship.

I don't agree that it isn't anybodies business. Regardless of the objective truth, they believe your child being unvaccinated puts their children at risk. They may perhaps be misinformed, but I don't think they are acting irrationally.

Originally Posted by natty529

has anyone dealt with anything like this?

I can't give you advice from any personal experience. My partner and I do differ somewhat regarding vaccination, but it hasn't led to problems like the ones you face. It is tricky though, normally one would compromise, but in this case any compromise is a compromise of what you percieve to be in the best interests of your child.

I think you probably need to be clearer about why/whether you aren't vaccinating and turn it into a positive decision. Once you're surer in your decision everything else should follow.

[shuttlt]

Originally Posted by rmzbm

You're right to do NOTHING until you are 100% sure. You cannot take them back, you can always vax later.

Perhaps I'm being pedantic, but I think we have to make decisions all the time where we aren't 100% sure. Are we 100% sure that vaccines are safe? Are we 100% sure that measles isn't a problem? The problem the OP, and everyone else is facing is making a big decision in the face of uncertainty. There is no decision that we can know for sure that we aren't going to live to regret.

Originally Posted by rmzbm

Re: your friends - I would make a decision to NOT discuss it. Ever. Tell them it's not up for discussion EVERY SINGLE TIME. Personally, if people stayed away from me cuz I don't vax...bye!

This may cost the OP her friends. So long as she's not clear on her decision not to vaccinate this is going to be tough.

[MyBoysBlue]

You have a right to medical privacy there is no reason you have to disclose your decision to others one way or another. We haven't told anyone except DS doctor and I signed a form declining vaxes for DS 1 at school. We haven't even told our parents. We haven't been hiding our decision and if they asked we would tell them. But it seems no one is interested or they just assume we are following the accepted norm. I don't feel the need to discuss it with people who haven't done even a fraction of the research I have.

My decision started with just delaying until I did enough research to feel comfortable with vaccinating. I initially decided to delay until two because of the blood brain barrier. I took that time to look more closely at each illness vax'd for and a each vax for that illness and weigh the pros and cons of each.

Our decision for our family is to not vax. Others have done the same and have come to the opposite conclusion for their families. No one is wrong or right, it is different for everyone. The problem with the vaccine schedule is that it is a one size fits all.

[shuttlt]

Originally Posted by MyBoysBlue

You have a right to medical privacy there is no reason you have to disclose your decision to others one way or another. We haven't told anyone except DS doctor and I signed a form declining vaxes for DS 1 at school. We haven't even told our parents. We haven't been hiding our decision and if they asked we would tell them. But it seems no one is interested or they just assume we are following the accepted norm. I don't feel the need to discuss it with people who haven't done even a fraction of the research I have.

As someone who is vaxing and coming from what I guess I would describe as an intuitively pro-vax position, your post got me thinking. I guess I intellectually agree with what you say. You shouldn't have to go around anouncing your decision not to vax. At the same time, in common with a lot of people who accept the mainstream scientific opinion, I think I would be a little uncomfortable if I knew that one of my sons friends wasn't vaccinated for this reason. I doubt that I would feel sufficiently strongly about it to end a friendship, the risks are after all low.

The problem for the OP of course is that the cat is out of the bag. Hopefully she and her friends will find a way of dealing with it and remaining friends.

[alegna]

It ISN'T anybody's business. Medical decisions are private matters. Schools and daycares can't disclose that info. People next to you in line won't disclose that info. It's private. Period.

-Angela

[karika]

I think it just illustrates what is wrong with vaccines. If their child is vaccinated, which supposedly protects them from disease, why would they even care? Although we all know that vax do not protect from disease, they must think they do in order to receive the shots, right? personally i have been more concerned over having my unvaccinated dds around vaxed kids, since they have the germs from a disease in their system, whether it protecs them, or was full blown or what. but i read a thread yest from some old time non vaxxers and they say it is ok to have them around vaxed kids. I would personally use this opportunity to educate them on your decision. beginning maybe with the question of if they think it is so good to do, and provides protection, why would they be afraid for the children to mingle? Maybe share some handouts you print off hte computer. it all depends on how close you are wiht these people if they will listen to you. i say we cant afford to be silent any longer. if they break off contact, so be it. i beleive the more vocal and adamant we are, the more likely funds will be provided for research done independently, to show that unvax is healthier and less physical problems overall.

[brightonwoman]

I would stop going to that ped. Seriously, I think the main reason for teh frequent 'well baby' checks is to get the shots...YOU see your child so much more than your dr does, so YOU know when he/she is sick or whatever. Unless your LO has some kind of a condition or something, I'd skip the well baby checks. I did.

[shuttlt]

Originally Posted by karika

I think it just illustrates what is wrong with vaccines. If their child is vaccinated, which supposedly protects them from disease, why would they even care?

I guess it depends from vaccine to vaccine. I'm still too new at this to be sure. I had thought that many vaccines were quite a bit short of 100% protection against whatever it is they are vaccinating against. If it's not true then it's a popular myth that, if addressed might go a long way to make the OP's friends relax.

I don't think it's unreasonable for them to care given what they presumably believe about vaccines and the diseases they are vaccinating against.

Originally Posted by karika

Although we all know that vax do not protect from disease, they must think they do in order to receive the shots, right?

You are right that it is easy to take a pro-vax position that may well not be internally consistent. I have been surprised several times on this forum by things that I had assumed were true, but clearly aren't. I would be very careful before basing the argument on things like vaccines do not protect from disease unless you are very sure you can win it. It may strike them as a very 'alternative' view point. That's certainly how it would have struck me. The OP's friends may be different though and she will have to make a judgement there.

[natty529]

waiting itself is a decision and i don't really understand why you would make a decision that goes against the experts' if you aren't informed yet. i don't think you should leave medical decisions up to "feelings" or the internet.

i realize that waiting is a decision, my decision IS to wait because, due to my RESEARCH i feel that vaxing is not right for us right now. as far as experts go... i have listened and read what they have to say... the benefits do not outweigh the risks in my oppinion.
simply because i have chosen to discuss this matter on the internet, that doesn't mean that my sources are not reputable

[mommyofemma]

I don't think you should have to lie to them. This is your decision and you shouldn't have to be "punished" for it. What are they so worried about?I thought vaccines were "oh so wonderful" and so "protective" so why would they care if your child was not vaccinated...just shows to me that they have to have some doubts about vaccines themselves. I would not rush into the whole vaccine issue. It is something you need to continue researching until you feel comfortable enough to make a decision that you are willing to live with!Best of luck..I know it's hard having a child that is not vaccinated,especially when all the people you are around are so pro-vaccine.

[Deborah]

medical privacy--

I feel that I have a right to privacy about my health stuff right up to the point where keeping stuff private endangers someone else.

A clear example would be a sexually transmitted disease. Someone who goes around having sex with people without warning them about their active case of __________ is using medical privacy to endanger others.

The case with vaccines isn't nearly this clear-cut.

First of all, if a particular illness is not circulating in a community, the unvaccinated are no more likely to be carriers than the vaccinated.

If the illness is circulating in the community, the likelihood that the unvaccinated are likely to be THE carriers of the illness depends on the epidemiology of that particular illness. Whooping cough, for example, can be spread very effectively by the vaccinated. So can chickenpox. Oh, and mumps, see the big outbreak in the U.S. a couple of years ago.

There is a limited number of illnesses where the vaccine actually blocks transmission and the unvaccinated are more likely to be carrying and spreading the illness--but only if it is around.

In order to make the claim that parents of unvaccinated children are required to violate the medical privacy of their children:

There would need to be an illness circulating in the community which only the unvaccinated would be able to carry and transmit. Lacking such an illness, unvaxed families have no reason to give up their medical privacy and vaccinated families have no right to demand a violation of privacy.

On the other hand, normal courtesy requires that people who are sick refrain from spreading illness if at all possible. How many of your kids have caught an illness because of the irresponsibility of parents who took their sick kids out to the park or the grocery story or even a birthday party?

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by madamlady

yeah, i don't know why people would be afraid to have their kids around yours but i think your friend is right that this could happen. i also don't think that you are right to sit around and wait on this decision. waiting itself is a decision and i don't really understand why you would make a decision that goes against the experts' if you aren't informed yet. i don't think you should leave medical decisions up to "feelings" or the internet.

Injecting pharmaceuticals into one's child is an irreversible act; once done it cannot be undone, but vaccinations can always be done later. One should be VERY sure that it is necessary.

As a parent she is responsible for the health and life of her child; the Dr. bears no liability if her child is harmed by vaccinations and it takes YEARS to get a ruling in the vaccine court (which is no fault) and it is difficult to recover anything from it.

The "experts" once delivered babies after handling corpse without washing their hands, cut open a patients arm to let out the 'bad blood', advised that smoking was healthful, and thalidomide was safe. I don't see how you can fault a parent for taking the time to make a knowledgeable decision.

Name that lie . . . and other scaremongering stories and quotes from your ped


Name that lie and other scaremongering quotes from your ped part 2

[ericswifey27]

Originally Posted by madamlady

yeah, i don't know why people would be afraid to have their kids around yours but i think your friend is right that this could happen. i also don't think that you are right to sit around and wait on this decision. waiting itself is a decision and i don't really understand why you would make a decision that goes against the experts' if you aren't informed yet. i don't think you should leave medical decisions up to "feelings" or the internet.

Those "feelings" are called intuition, and it is there for a reason...

[blessed mommy]

Originally Posted by shuttlt

As someone who is vaxing and coming from what I guess I would describe as an intuitively pro-vax position, your post got me thinking. I guess I intellectually agree with what you say. You shouldn't have to go around anouncing your decision not to vax. At the same time, in common with a lot of people who accept the mainstream scientific opinion, I think I would be a little uncomfortable if I knew that one of my sons friends wasn't vaccinated for this reason. I doubt that I would feel sufficiently strongly about it to end a friendship, the risks are after all low.

The problem for the OP of course is that the cat is out of the bag. Hopefully she and her friends will find a way of dealing with it and remaining friends.

We no longer vax. Period.

These discussions always confuse me. If my dc is not vaxed, and yours is-and I would be assuming,that you vaxed,after doing your research-and your conclusion, is that your dc are protected against VPD. So.....what is the problem? If you have so much trust in the vaxes, why get freaked if your dc plays with a nonvaxed dc?

What am I missing??

[shuttlt]

Originally Posted by blessed mommy

We no longer vax. Period.

These discussions always confuse me. If my dc is not vaxed, and yours is-and I would be assuming,that you vaxed,after doing your research-and your conclusion, is that your dc are protected against VPD. So.....what is the problem? If you have so much trust in the vaxes, why get freaked if your dc plays with a nonvaxed dc?

What am I missing??

I am so far behind all the rest of you on this. I feel like the class dunce, or possibly a bad parent. No, my intuition never told me vaccines were bad (I'm a father, so if we're gender stereotyping, that may be why. I don't believe in any conspiracy (not that everyone here believes in one). I've become interested in this, in part, as my partner and I have had a gentle disagreement about MMR. I respect her, so I respect peoples doubts about vaccination. I would though describe both of our positions as naive rather than informed.

I'm working on it, but I can't at the moment help much on the topics where having done your vax homework is important. I'm happy to tell you why I would have been concerned (perhaps naively as I said) about an unvaccinated child being around my son. I would have been concerned because I didn't expect vaccines to give anything like 100% protection, and I believed in herd immunity. I think both of these beliefs are quite widespread.

Having said that, the risks are pretty low of my son catching measles (or whatever), so unless there was an actual outbreak I would probably count the benifits of him having lots of friends over any risk associated to them being/or not being vaccinated.

Whether or not it's factually accurate, it always seemed to me like a coherent position.

[Pandme]

My question would be if herd immunity is the issue, do you check with every single adult your child is around to make sure they are up to date on their boosters?

Many, many adults are walking around with no protection. I haven't been vaxxed since I don't remember when. And I never get vaxxed for the flu. Does that mean you would feel uncomfortable having your vaxxed child around me?

[shuttlt]

Look, like most intuitive positions there are holes waiting to be picked in it. It's not a position I would want to defend on this forum, and I'd probably be in trouble again with the mods if I did :-)

Originally Posted by Pandme

My question would be if herd immunity is the issue, do you check with every single adult your child is around to make sure they are up to date on their boosters?

For my money I'd be more worried about other children than adults as they tend to be sticking their fingers in one another's mouths (and worse) all the time. But, as previously stated, I don't and have never thought people should be forced to go around announcing the vaccination status. As I also said I would let my child play with an unvaccinated one.

Originally Posted by Pandme

Many, many adults are walking around with no protection. I haven't been vaxxed since I don't remember when. And I never get vaxxed for the flu. Does that mean you would feel uncomfortable having your vaxxed child around me?

If there was a really nasty dose of the flu going around and I new you didn't vax it might cross my mind, but for one thing I didn't think most people vaccinated against flu and another... what I said earlier. I hope you'd describe this as the reasonable end of what the OP is facing.