Breastfed babies with allergies -- did the doctor figure it out or did you?

[LilacMama]

I have an 8 week old daughter who has never had a normal poop in her life -- always green, watery, mucusy, lately they smell like vinegar. I block fed for a while with no results. Then I removed dairy (because of the research I had done). The NP I take her to thought that was not a bad idea and recommended some probiotics for the both of us. It's been 3 weeks now with no improvement. I called her. She said to just keep doing what I'm doing, not to cut any more food out of my diet.

I work at a hospital and I've asked several of the pediatricians about it. They say as long as she's gaining weight, peeing enough, and not excessively fussy (she's moderately fussy) that I shouldn't worry about it and it will sort itself out. Is this true?

I feel desperate for her to be "okay" so I took out the top 8 allergens 6 days ago. No improvement yet. In fact, her poop last night looked like just a glob of spinach colored mucus and smelled like sour milk/vinegar.

I'm going crazy with the restricted diet and the feeling that I'm over reacting but at the same time, I refuse to believe that her poop is normal and I should just ignore it. I can't get over the feeling that there's a food sensitivity issue that I need to nip in the bud. But I'm the ONLY one who seems to think so (out of all the health care professionals I've talked to).

Am I over reacting/nuts/disrespecting those with TRUE food sensitivities? Am I torturing myself with this diet for no good reason? Or do food sensitivities in breastfed babies tend to be wrongly downplayed by the medical community?

[changingseasons]

Am I over reacting/nuts/disrespecting those with TRUE food sensitivities? Am I torturing myself with this diet for no good reason? Or do food sensitivities in breastfed babies tend to be wrongly downplayed by the medical community?

You are not overreacting. The medical community knows very little about food sensitivities. Many mamas here have had the same experience with docs.

Have you started eating more of anything since you cut out the top 8? You definitely should have seen some improvement by now.

Some other common offenders are corn, nightshade veggies, citrus... and I'm sure I'm forgetting something.

Can you share what you've been eating and we can help troubleshoot?

[kjbrown92]

conventional doctors did not help me at all in regards to my kids' food intolerances. YES, YES, YES, food intolerances don't exist at all according to most conventional doctors. I remember the doctor saying I HAD to drink milk even though it made my 2 week old projectile vomit bile at and after every feeding.

it does not sound like normal poop to me either. And it just sounds like the food trigger is either not one of the top 8, or it's in addition to one (or more) of the top 8.

[LilacMama]

Thanks so much.

I roasted a huge organic turkey and I've been eating that. I made a bunch of stock with it and I've been cooking rice in it and using it as a soup base. I've been eating:
Brown rice
Olive Oil
Avocado
Bananas
Rice Crackers
Spinach
Carrots
Chickpeas
Coconut Milk
Rice Milk
Vanilla Rice Milk
Some Frozen Berries
Oatmeal
Chamomile Tea
Rooibos Tea
Decaf Green Tea
Salt, Pepper
Occasionally I've added a tiny bit of tomato, onion, and garlic to my rice (like 1 tablespoon total)
A Salad dressing made up of roasted red peppers, canola oil, and vinegar and sugar

I've been really careful about what I eat and what a label says.

[nataliachick7]

i was the one that realized my son was intolerant to dairy protein, soy protein and gluten. doc was no help.

[changingseasons]

hmmmm... seems like a pretty good diet. I'm curious if the turkey has "natural flavors" added- many do. And natural flavors can be corn based. Rice milk can also have corn derivatives in them too.

I might also take out the chickpeas for a few days and see if that helps- those can be somewhat allergenic.

[FireWithin]

Along with the chickpeas, I would take out the coconut milk. You should know within a couple of days if either one of them are a problem. My baby reacted very strongly to coconut. If this doesn't work, I would take out the rice. My guess is that you've increased you rice consumption. A dear friends baby always got worse when she was on an ed. It turns out she is allergic to rice. We can help you with grain ideas if you need that.

Good luck

[pedi08]

i was eliminating just dairy with no improvement, or minimal then when i took out all soy (and trace) he was baseline. no dr could give me the whole picture, i found this board and pieced it together myself.

[tanyalynn]

It clearly sounds like something is going on, but you may have other things going on beyond food. I'd consider trying to find someone to help with structural stuff, I'd try to find a DO who does cranial-sacral. Personally I'd also cut out the oatmeal, even GF oatmeal has a protein that's similar to gluten and can cause problems, but I can't see that being the only thing going on. The other folks have given good ideas too--swapping out rice for something else (quinoa? buckwheat?) and making other substitutions like that could help pinpoint things on the food side. With no improvement at all, and the symptoms you're talking about, I'd think there's some combination of problematic foods and maybe a structural thing, or maybe something that, say, something energetic like homeopathy could help with.

[mtn.mama]

In addition to all of the wonderful above listed suggestions... I want to put a bug in your ear about avocado. Its a pretty allergenic food for babes... and it caused my child diapers full of mucus. Good luck, I know this isn't easy or simple. But your hard work WILL pay off.

ETA: bananas fall in the same class as avocados... both are latex foods, and since neither is usually eaten cooked- well that tends to complicate the problem. So my recommendation would be to pull both at the same time, and add them in separately.

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by LilacMama

I have an 8 week old daughter who has never had a normal poop in her life -- always green, watery, mucusy, lately they smell like vinegar. I block fed for a while with no results. Then I removed dairy (because of the research I had done). The NP I take her to thought that was not a bad idea and recommended some probiotics for the both of us. It's been 3 weeks now with no improvement. I called her. She said to just keep doing what I'm doing, not to cut any more food out of my diet.

Are you pretty confident that you addressed any oversupply or foremilk/hindmilk imbalance with the block feeding? I had so block feed for 8+ hours/side to see a difference. And that was at 8 MONTHS old.

I see the purpose of an elimination diet as a test of whether it's foods that are causing the issues or something else. If you aren't seeing any improvement at all, I'd start to look for other causes as well. And if you *do* see improvement, then once everything's calmed down and relaxed, with the right balance of nutrients, you can make her less reactive. That's what we're talking about with all the detox pathway stuff.

[LilacMama]

WhoMe-- I went up to 6 hours/side with block feeding. It didn't seem to make a difference. Currently, I simply offer one side per feeding. How do you know for sure if it's been fully explored without risking lowering your supply? I believe I have a good supply but not an excessive supply, but I certainly don't KNOW that. I'd be interested to learn more.

So, I'm cutting out the coconut milk, oatmeal, chickpeas, avocados, and bananas.

I have no idea if the turkey contained "natural flavors." I thought it would be the right thing because it was free range, organic. But, I suppose that doesn't preclude corn.

This is SO hard. Thanks so much for all of your help. It's so nice to know other mamas have been here.

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by LilacMama

WhoMe-- I went up to 6 hours/side with block feeding. It didn't seem to make a difference. Currently, I simply offer one side per feeding. How do you know for sure if it's been fully explored without risking lowering your supply? I believe I have a good supply but not an excessive supply, but I certainly don't KNOW that. I'd be interested to learn more.

I would trust the mamas in the breastfeeding forum more than me, but I think the main goal is to make sure you're emptying the breast completely and getting as much hindmilk as you can. I didn't worry too much about compromising my supply cause I've always had plenty and it responds really well to dd nursing more to increase when necessary.

[kjbrown92]

Originally Posted by LilacMama

So, I'm cutting out the coconut milk, oatmeal, chickpeas, avocados, and bananas.

I'd take out the nightshades too (tomato, peppers). If you have the same brand of rice milk so that you're doing original and vanilla of just one, that's helpful. And remember there are lots of forms of rice: rice flour, rice pasta, rice cakes, etc. (rice flour to make gravy from your nice turkey). Make bone broth from the turkey after you roast it (24 hours gets you great healing properties). And make sure you are using sea salt, not iodized salt (which contains corn).

What kind of vinegar are you using? Rice vinegar is the best bet since you're already doing rice. And can you just pick one kind of tea while you're on the trial to make it easier? The less variables the better.

Are you keeping a food journal during this time of all foods/drinks and all symptoms? It's key in figuring out trends.

[WuWei]

I didn't bother to ask any doctors, the LLL support provided information for us and I observed the patterns of his reactions based upon my diet. What could a doctor do, he can't see or control what we eat.

Ds's red anus, gassy, painful burps totally resolved when I eliminated tomatoes, corn, soy, wheat, berries, cinnamon, cauliflower, cabbage, onions, lemons, limes, citrus, dairy, broccoli, anything processed, ... gosh, we had to eliminate a bunch of stuff. The distress continued until we eliminated all of them. It was amazing! When I didn't eat those foods, ds never had to be burped, never was gassy or crying after nursing, never spit up. No more mucousy green poop, no more red anus, no more yeast rash on his bum. After we eliminated wheat, the night wakening diminished significantly!

Mama, the issue is that baby is reacting to YOUR leaky gut. Basically, baby doesn't get optimized nutrition, if your gut is leaking undigested proteins. The child's reactions are a cue about YOUR leaky gut. To heal your food intolerances, you have to remove the foods.

But, if you are still consuming any allergens, it is going to remain inflamed. Unfortunately, even elemental formulas include CORN and SOY. Both are highly allergenic.

Did you (or baby) have antibiotics, steroids, antacids anytime with pregnancy or since birth?

I'd work at adding the top 10 'gut healing' supplements to maximize health. CLO, CO, magnesium, zinc, vitamins A, B, C, D, E, selenium, bone broths, whole food probiotics: (non-dairy) yogurt, kefir, kombucha, fermented vegetables. (These are easy, although "foreign" at first.)

Also, high doses of vit C, and Epsom salt baths for detox.

Start here, the yeast stuff is covered there: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=941070 It talks about C-sections initially. But, the point is antibiotics (frequent nowadays) leading to allergies leading to asthma. All due to yeast overgrowth.

And here, regarding preventing chronic immune system issues: http://www.mothering.com/discussions...c#post12948063

Food intolerances is an external manifestation of an impaired immune system. Our gut is 70% of our immune system. I'd focus on healing your/her gut. There is a sticky at the top of the forum, "Healing the Gut-cheat sheet": http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=434071 I'd start there.

Nutrient dense foods and gut health are the keys to strengthening the immune system. Here is a list of the "World's Healthiest Foods". This is a non-profit site which lists the most nutrient dense foods. http://www.whfoods.com/foodstoc.php

Start with little steps. Do one new thing that benefits your health each week. Master that. Understand WHY it is important and work it into your lifestyle. If I go headlong into a bunch of new stuff, the novelty and maintenance wear off. Start with reading one thread a week. Take notes.

Also, I would RUN to the closest classical homeopath IMMEDIATELY for both of you. But, that is a whole 'nuther post.

This thread has more information. http://www.mothering.com/discussions...=manifestation

Btdt, it will get better.

Pat

[Ophelia]

Others have given you great advice about food, I just wanted to chime in with my experience.

Since DS was newborn, he had productive toots, mucousy poohs that caused his anus skin to burn, bad cradle cap, and eczema. I originally took him to a ped a few times and all they did was give me perscriptions for diaper rash. Never once did any of them mention my diet. I had to find that out on my own! In his case it turned out to be wheat or gluten.

[hippychickaquarius]

I think lots of women have already given you some good advice. I just wanted to chime in that doctors didn't listen to us. DH and I have talked to everyone, and both pedis (we ditched our first one) have just prescribed reflux meds and given us formula. It sucks. We went to a pediatric allergist who had helpful advice but no answers. Our LC has been more helpful, but she certainly can't figure out the extent of what we're going through.

Sounds like you're on the right path. We found out the DS is HIGHLY HIGHLY sensitive to tomatoes, and he reacts to anything with rice too.. more with brown rice than white rice.

Please keep posting here! I'm still overwhelmed with the allergies/intollerances, and our stories seem very similar. We haven't figured out all of DS's allergies, and I've been doing this for 4 months! Would love to hear about your problems/solutions.

Good luck!

[reneemca]

i arrived here a few years too late! thank you for all of the useful information. i would love to know how things turned out for everyone. i have eliminated dairy, soy, wheat, eggs, chicken, beef, nuts, quinoa and eat a TON of chickpeas and rice. i never thought chickpeas could be the issue. i'm eager to eliminate those next. wish i could figure out a way to not be so hungry all the time.

[SweetSilver]

First, I wouldn't worry.  In this sense you were given good advice (but for the wrong reasons.  That doesn't mean that you shouldn't be doing something about it.)  You don't necessarily have to keep taking out taking out taking out.  If you are seeing no improvement I might exchange chicken for the turkey, for example.  My 6.5yo is currently "on probation" with turkey after a (new) bad reaction to some "all natural" deli slices from the co-op.  It could have been the smoke flavoring, though, and we are going to do a turkey challenge.  Between DD and I we are also allergic to rice and oatmeal and buckwheat, so don't take anything for granted.  Any protein, any meat, seed, grain, nut, etc. can be an allergen.  There are no "non-allergenic" foods.  You can't just keep removing things from your diet over and over again.  Eventually you will have to add something back in anyway.  Even though her stools are not normal yet, if you are feeling the pinch it's time for a challenge.  If you don't see a change, then keep the food in your diet while you take out something else.  I wouldn't recommend this except in cases like yours where you've already eliminated so much already and seen no improvement.

     BTW the doc at the time was no help at all!  I figured this out 2 YEARS LATER!  

[reneemca]

so it never ends! i am craving chicken tonight, and am going to go for it. i need to find a balance. no poop from my 5 month old DD yet today, but i have a strong feeling about those chickpeas. thanks for your input!