Originally Posted by carriebft
I also think the outbreaks recently demonstrated that the MMR doesn't seem to wane or be waning yet (again, its only been around 40 years). If you look at switzerland and USA particularly, the infection remained isolated to unvaccinated and partially vaccinated populations.
I was thinking about this last night and it occured to me that it is very possible that many of the cases that occured in these outbreaks could have very well been intentional. Many parents who do not vaccinate are not scared of their children getting measles and mumps and will go as far as having parties to get kids infected like with chickenpox. So, I was wondering how many, if any, of the kids who are affected in these outbreaks are intentional. You definetly don't hear from the reports but it would be interesting to know. This would definetly change things a bit, I would think.
One of the questions given above was about why I doubt antibodies, as far as vaccine protection goes. The reason I doubt antibodies is because you see over and over in studies and personal accounts where someone had sufficient antibody levels and still got the disease. You also get the reverse, where someone does not have antibodies and when exposed does not get the disease. There is something else that must be going on in the immune system to make this possible. They are starting to learn more but more info is needed. So, in my opinion, vaccine antibody level alone providing protection is just theory.
Then you have someone like myself who has NEVER had the flu or a flu like illness regardless of taking care of a household of sick people. What is it about me that allows me to avoid these sicknesses? Obviously it is not antibodies because they would have had to come from somewhere. I just feel they are really missing some key info on the immune system to explain some of these things.
As far as antibodies dropping off overtime, I personally feel that they are supposed to drop off naturally over time, whether from a vaccine or from natural disease. I don't believe this leaves a person susceptible because once the person encounters that disease again, the body just ramps up at that time. I think having high antibodies sitting around all the time may not be a good thing (possible problems with molecular mimicry and who knows what else).
The ramping up your body does after encountering a disease is more than just antibodies, in the case of natural immunity. But with vaccines, do you get anything else besides antibody levels raising. I believe the only real way to know if someone is immune to something is if they are exposed and do not get the illness.
Another thing I was thinking of last night was about the vaccine studies where they are measuring antibodies and using that to measure efficacy. I was wondering if they had ever taken the time to monitor the virus itself inside the body (again, I am only speaking live virus vaccines here). If they tested all children given the vaccine to see if they had the measles virus at different intervals after vaccinated to see if any of them ended up with chronic measles. I think this would be nice info to have.
I started thinking about this after seeing some info on other live vaccines that have failed, like the AIDS one, where they actually do test for the virus. They were saying with these that the vaccines can actually increase susceptibility as far as having a chronic case of the virus. Wondering if they ever looked into this for the live vaccines they give kids. If anyone comes across any studies looking at this for the live vaccines kids get, I would be interested in seeing that. Here is the info I saw that talked about the problem with some live virus vaccines which got me wondering:http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...9e8807a161330f