please remove - Page 3

[elephantine]

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[caro113]

I just found this thread but I'm going to ask the mean question now. Why exactly did her grandmother allow that child to go back to that home? If she suspected abuse, the last thing she should have done was allow that child to go back there. I certainly hope she reports it herself, as that will look very suspicious to the authorities.
I certainly hope that little girl is okay. Please give us an update as soon as you hear anything more. People who abuse little children that way are true evil and deserve to rot forever in jail. Hopefully it's nothing more than just inappropriateness, like the two of them co-sleeping butt to butt with him ramming into her at night.
Let us know! You and M are in our thoughts!

[elephantine]

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[Sierra]

I'm with everybody else. CPS needs to be called, as soon as possible.

I am so glad to read in the update that it sounds like this is going to happen, and happen very soon.

Originally Posted by chaoticzenmom

I don't think I"d call cps first, I'd go straight to the police station with the girl and have her tell the police. This is not a cps investigation thing, it's a criminal thing.

As a small point of clarification, CPS or the police can take a report, and either way, one is going to report to the other in almost every place in the U.S. with something like this. Because even if where you are, CPS deals only with immediate-family abuse (this is true in many regions), the mom is failing to protect.

Rest assurred, even if this is taken to CPS first, this will be taken to the police, and it will become a criminal case.

CPS may be able to keep things a little more "child-friendly" than the police, but that varies a lot from place to place.

Originally Posted by Maeve

I understand, but my family has been forever damaged by sexual abuse so I guess I'm looking at it from the other side.

And this is sooooooooo important to really hear.

Finally, I want to second:

Originally Posted by LynnS6

While I think that calling the police is reasonable option, PLEASE do not have the grandparents get the child to tape anything. IF there is abuse going on (and that's an open question right now), the grandparents don't want to be in a position where they're accused of leading the child in questioning. A good defense lawyer could make mincemeat of the video tape and IF (and it is an if) the guy is guilty, he could walk free.

The police should have access to people who are TRAINED to do this.

Originally Posted by doctormom

I'll second (third?) the PP who said - the grandparents should not question the child further about this incident. If she brings it up, they should listen neutrally, but not ask leading questions. They should write down what she says, using the exact words of the child, and dating all written records. A notebook for this purpose would be ideal. They will want to provide those to CPS.

A trained interviewer will be able to elicit the most accurate, appropriate information - and will be the most believable witness for the court system, should a criminal or custody case arise. There are some excellent child psychologists who are trained to do skilled interviewing in a developmentally appropriate way that is not traumatic or fearful for the child. The ER or the police in the community will know who to contact.

[reece19]

I'm glad her aunt is going to make a report.

Let her know not to be too surprised if the police won't take a report and tell her to go to CPS first. Most cops know better than to interview a child about sexual abuse and will defer to a forensic investigator. Just take whatever advice they give and make a CPS referral.

[tiffani]

I do not forsee that visit going smoothly, but my fingers are crossed that the mama will not feel so defensive that she can't do the right thing... good for your friend for taking immediate action!!

[caro113]

Okay, good. I am soo glad that she is still with the grandparents. That really concerned me for a bit there.
I've heard in cases of sexual abuse, the child will have a personality change or something like that. Has anyone noticed anything?

[elephantine]

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[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by caro113

I've heard in cases of sexual abuse, the child will have a personality change or something like that. Has anyone noticed anything?

My sister, both female cousins and I were all sexually abused as children. Only one of my cousins showed any signs of it in the short term, although there were some long-term effects of one kind or another for all of us. Unfortunately, the one cousin who did manifest any visible signs already had a challenging personality and nobody picked up on it. (Mind you, this was over 30 years ago, and people weren't anywhere near as aware of this as they are now.)

[prothyraia]

Originally Posted by elephantine

She's going to tell A exactly what the girl said to their mother. If A refuses to take the girl to police to file a report, then my friend and the grandma are going to give her the ultimatum and *will* contact the authorities. So, no matter how angry and bitter A might possibly get, she is going to have no choice and we figure she will opt to report this herself rather than having her sister or mom have to do it for her.

I'm glad it sounds like this girl is going to get the help (or at least, the investigation) she needs.

I hate to be pessimistic, but I have to point that it's possible her mother will *say* she'll go the police just to get grandma/your friend off her back, and then not follow through. I would suggest to your friend that she contact the authorities after giving the mother a chance to report first- even *if* the mother says she will. At the end of the conversation, something like "I'm going to contact the authorities on Saturday and tell them what I heard, but I wanted to talk to you and give you a chance to call them first."

Good for you for following through on this!

[Sierra]

Originally Posted by prothyraia

I hate to be pessimistic, but I have to point that it's possible her mother will *say* she'll go the police just to get grandma/your friend off her back, and then not follow through. I would suggest to your friend that she contact the authorities after giving the mother a chance to report first- even *if* the mother says she will. At the end of the conversation, something like "I'm going to contact the authorities on Saturday and tell them what I heard, but I wanted to talk to you and give you a chance to call them first."

That's a good suggestion, for a sound reason.

[elephantine]

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[Rosehip]

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[mamarhu]

Please call yourself. You really must. This kind of denial is so common. And it is all so sad.

[~Boudicca~]

Originally Posted by mamarhu

Please call yourself. You really must. This kind of denial is so common. And it is all so sad.

I will : all day long. To not do anything and possibly risk continuing abuse...it's unthinkable.

[tiffani]

And the call needs to be made before the little girl goes back home, if she isn't back already after that conversation -- her mom sounds like she is in major denial if she is saying her dd "made it up" -- if my kid said something like that about my dh, I would not think they made it up, even though I KNOW there is no possibility of abuse, but I would wonder what they meant by it, yk? I'd wonder "ok, what is that little brain of theirs shifting to make it sound like that?" and I would gently ask them what they meant by it, and get more information, not write it off as a made up story. even if it is something that can be explained (and I don't know what that could be...) an investigation is 100% necessary, by people who know how to question kids in an entirely unbiased way.

for the record, I do "get" how kids can say things that seem wierd -- when my dd was about 18 months old, she and my mom and I were staying in a hotel for a wedding and my dd said "daddy's penis ouch" -- when the tension in the room was just totally unbearable, I explained that she had started grabbing dad's floaty bits in the bath and he told her "that's dad's penis, you can't grab it, it hurts" (because what else do you tell your 18 month old when they grab your bits?)... I am glad my mom believed me, but if she had felt compelled to call CPS, we would have cooperated fully, having nothing to hide.

the fact that this mama is TOTALLY dismissing this is an awful sign!!

[sharon.gmc]

You should have the child checked by a doctor. I think a child her age will not make up any stories. . .

[Mimi]

please do call, this is so terrible, that poor little girl! children don't make this sort of thing up without a reason,
& if there is a perfectly normal reason, like for the "daddies penis,ouch" then the mother could have explained it or would not just lie & say he never is alone with the little one!

[Swan3]

Wow, saying prayers for this little girl and for mama's eyes and heart to open up and stop denying.

I hope that everyone gets through this situation and that all can heal. It would never occur to me to think my DD is making something up, why why why won't people listen with open hearts to their own children?

[MadameXCupcake]

This is heartbreaking. Why is no one protecting the little girl. The mom should of called, the grandparents, your friend, or you. This happens to way too many children and no one helps them.

The grandparents should not have gone to the mom, it should have been CPS or the police that night.