Question about adoption after birth... civil union partners, KD, fresh sperm, at-home

[sunwillshine]

Hi all,

DP and I are starting the process of TTC in March/April. I've got a question about any problems we may run into w/ adoption after our LO is born. The facts:

• KD who I trust will not "change his mind" about not wanting a parenting role
• At-home insem w/ KD's fresh sperm
• DP and I are civil union partners in NJ
• According to NJ's AI statute, KD will be legal parent of LO because we are not inseminating "under the supervision of a physician."

Therefore, my questions (oh, there's so many. Here a just a couple...)

• Have any couples in NJ found that there's interpretation as far as "under the supervision of a physician" is involved (i.e. have you had physicians who will vouch that you were "under their care" while you were performing your insems at home?
• How complicated was the second-parent adoption/judgment of parentage process for your civil union partner?
• How complicated was it to terminate your KD of his parental rights/responsibilities?
• If you are in a civil union, did you decide to put DP on the birth cert. at birth (before the adoption?)

Before you say "consult an attorney," know that we already have had several preliminary consultations... I'm more interested in hearing feedback about what your individual experiences were as opposed to a lawyer telling me what I can expect. I wish we could somehow proceed w/out a lawyer, but I know it is not wise, and I'm not sure it's even possible to successfully file the petition for adoption/judgment of parentage & terminate KD's parentage w/out one (looking forward to being told I'm wrong, but not holding my breath)!

Thanks for any insight any of you may be able to provide!!!

[lexbeach]

Welcome to MDC!

I'm sorry that I don't have answers to any of your questions since we did not use a KD, but I'm hopeful that someone else here might have something helpful to say.



Lex

[megincl]

Originally Posted by Lyndzies

Hi all,

DP and I are starting the process of TTC in March/April. I've got a question about any problems we may run into w/ adoption after our LO is born. The facts:

• KD who I trust will not "change his mind" about not wanting a parenting role
• At-home insem w/ KD's fresh sperm
• DP and I are civil union partners in NJ
• According to NJ's AI statute, KD will be legal parent of LO because we are not inseminating "under the supervision of a physician."

Therefore, my questions (oh, there's so many. Here a just a couple...)

• Have any couples in NJ found that there's interpretation as far as "under the supervision of a physician" is involved (i.e. have you had physicians who will vouch that you were "under their care" while you were performing your insems at home?
• How complicated was the second-parent adoption/judgment of parentage process for your civil union partner?
• How complicated was it to terminate your KD of his parental rights/responsibilities?
• If you are in a civil union, did you decide to put DP on the birth cert. at birth (before the adoption?)

Before you say "consult an attorney," know that we already have had several preliminary consultations... I'm more interested in hearing feedback about what your individual experiences were as opposed to a lawyer telling me what I can expect. I wish we could somehow proceed w/out a lawyer, but I know it is not wise, and I'm not sure it's even possible to successfully file the petition for adoption/judgment of parentage & terminate KD's parentage w/out one (looking forward to being told I'm wrong, but not holding my breath)!

Thanks for any insight any of you may be able to provide!!!

Hi and welcome!

We are in MA, so things are a bit different. But I think that much of what we did here is similar since we have a KD as well.

I believe that the supervision of the physician really means having the physician do the insem. And that can be tricky if the donor is not your actual partner. I believe the CDC is against that, but I think there are ways to get around it. But, with doing fresh at home, you need to terminate parental rights of the KD. We did use a lawyer so that the process was easy, but I think you may be able to do this and the adoption on your own (I know the latter is true, not sure about the former).

Second parent adoption was VERY easy for us. We had to get references attesting to us both being parents to Quinn. The lawyer filed everything, we got a court date and signed papers. NO TRAUMA or drama at all. Really it was just the time it took us to get our act together asking for the references. As an aside, our lawyer charges a flat fee for second parent adoptions, which is nice.

Terminating parental rights is just the signing of a paper, I believe in front of a notary. Our lawyer sent the paper to our KD. No problem at all.

Finally, I was not on the birth certificate until after the adoption. At that point an amended birth certificate is drawn up as a matter of course. I would not put DP on the BC until everything is legal. I think that can get you into screwy trouble. In MA, though, since we are now legally married, I will go on the BC when our next child is born. But we'll still have to do all the other legal stuff. It's a bit crazy. But you don't need to put KD on the BC. Just the birthing mother. I think putting DP on the BC can get into issues of falsification, etc, which may get sticky later. I know it is a matter of conscious and taking a stand for some, but for me it's best to follow the letter of the law for the long-term good of our family and our legal status.

Phew! That's all I have for now. Feel free to ask more questions. Hopefully others will have more wisdom to add.

be well,
megin

[jetstream]

I can't answer most of your questions because we did not use a kd but we just completed an order of parentage in NJ.

My dp and I have a civil union in NJ. When our daughter was born on 1/1/09 (I am the bio mom) my partner's name went on the birth certificate. We had started the paperwork for the order of parentage in December (we did use a lawyer). My partner just had to complete a statement to petition the court and I completed an affidavit stating that I had no objections. After our daughter was born, the lawyer filed the paperwork with the court and we received the judgment a few weeks later. We did not have to appear in court when the judgment was signed.

Our lawyer was Stephen Hyland http://www.stephenhyland.com in case you do end up needing one. He was very helpful and knowledgeable about queer law in NJ.

Hope this helps a bit. Good Luck!!
Jodi

[sunwillshine]

Thanks so much for the info, friends!

Megin - You said that terminating parental rights is just the signing of a paper... did you have to wait to do this until after the birth? Also, did you execute a known donor agreement before inseminations?

Jodi - You are the third person to have recommended Stephen Hyland. I actually had a phone conference with him and was discouraged because he implied that things would be much more difficult if we were using a KD and fresh sperm. I decided not to be defeated and did find a lawyer interested in helping with our case... but may refer back to Mr. Hyland if things start to get complicated. Thanks for the rec!

[megincl]

I know this wasn't directed at me, but using a KD and fresh sperm does make the legal side of things a bit more complex. Not bad, just a bit more complex. Don't let it deter you!!!!

You can't terminate parental rights until after the birth. There's usually a certain window of time before one can execute the termination, though. Basically to let it "sink in," etc.

We did a known donor agreement, also drawn up by our lawyer. It is extensive, but the bottom line is that it outlines the basics of our agreement with KD and covers lots that we never would have thought of (most of which isn't particularly important). Our lawyer explained that these agreements aren't legally binding but they can hold up in court to show intent.

I hope this helps. I know that facing the idea of legal business, legal fees, etc is hard when you're really wanting to concentrate on TTC. I felt so angry about that when we were TTC #1. In the end, though, that memory fades fast with the certainty of the status that all the legal processes ultimately give your family (and with the blessing that we even live in states that allow this!).

Bring on more questions if you have them!

[sunwillshine]

Megin- Thanks for your response.

I guess the thing is that I knew it would be more complex, but I wanted a lawyer to work WITH us and the decision we had made regarding the process of creating our family, rather than suggesting that "I really ought to do it a different way." It's hard enough to make the decision in the first place w/out having someone tell you there's a "better" way to do it.

That said, we're very content with our decision, and have complete trust in our donor, so we're not concerned that he's going to change his mind once a little one eventually arrives.

I'm just hoping that since we're civil union partners, DP won't have to jump thru too many hoops to get adopt, since under the law, she should legally be a parent of any child I give birth do.

It shouldn't be so confusing to start a family.

LOL. I know I'm preaching to the choir.

Fingers crossed that we get at least some of the details sorter out, because we're hoping to start TTC in the next couple months!

[sunwillshine]

Megin - I've got another interesting question for ya (and anyone else who can chime in).

Our KD is not a resident of the county that DP and I are... our lawyer said:

"It's looking like the second parent adoption is the clear path as you are in a civil union. The process of voluntary termination/adoption is simultaneous. It must be heard in the court of the county of the parent who is terminating parental rights. I am assuming that this donor is a South Jersey resident."

Not only is our donor a resident of another county, but another STATE (a far away, midwestern one, at that). He lived and works in Philly, only 20 minutes away from DP and I, but technically, he's a permanent resident where his parents reside in the midwest, for tax and other various reasons.

Any insight as to the veracity of the fact that our case needs to be heard in the donor's state of residency? I'm sure my lawyers not trying to pull a fast one on me or anything, but I'm just trying to gather all the info I can...

Thanks for any information you can provide!

Peace.

[megincl]

Originally Posted by Lyndzies

Megin - I've got another interesting question for ya (and anyone else who can chime in).

Our KD is not a resident of the county that DP and I are... our lawyer said:

"It's looking like the second parent adoption is the clear path as you are in a civil union. The process of voluntary termination/adoption is simultaneous. It must be heard in the court of the county of the parent who is terminating parental rights. I am assuming that this donor is a South Jersey resident."

Not only is our donor a resident of another county, but another STATE (a far away, midwestern one, at that). He lived and works in Philly, only 20 minutes away from DP and I, but technically, he's a permanent resident where his parents reside in the midwest, for tax and other various reasons.

Any insight as to the veracity of the fact that our case needs to be heard in the donor's state of residency? I'm sure my lawyers not trying to pull a fast one on me or anything, but I'm just trying to gather all the info I can...

Thanks for any information you can provide!

Peace.

Wow! I have nothing for you on this one. For us termination involved him signing a paper (I believe having it notarized as well). That had to happen before the 2nd parent adoption could happen. So I'm guessing it's different where you are. But I must say it is sort of strange to me that the termination of parental rights has to happen in a court.....but my feel on it really means nothing as I'm not a lawyer.

It is, though, sounding like you are perhaps a bit unsure about this lawyer...I'm wondering if you can even just call someone to get a second opinion, so to speak. That might put you at ease if you're hearing the same thing from different folks.

Good luck!
megin