Originally Posted by LoMaH
Oh, there definitely can be times where it's more than just a mild offensive comment. But, it's still not the same, although the basis may be because of race. Mind you, saying that "it's not the same"... doesn't at all mean "it's nothing, not bad." It's just not like the examples you gave about your father's experience, which is on a different level, kwim?
I dunno, Susu. White people here can be discriminated against by other white people. Take into consideration though, that our population in the U.S. is much larger, with greater diversity than in Ireland.. and it's easier to target those in the bunch who stand out the MOST.
I'm not undermining the discrimination they experience, please don't take my response to mean that.
I think it's hard for us on this side to understand why your example would be categorized as racism because...
Here you're saying that they stand out because of their accents and the way they dress.
You also mentioned that you're also recognized by your English accent.
What would happen if you worked on losing your accent with a speech coach (as actors often do)- and so did the members of the traveling community and they dressed as the majority of the culture?
Is it at all possible for them/you to become indistinguishable from the majority? Is it possible for your children to become indistinguishable?
Can you see how that would be quite a feat for someone whose skin color, physical features, hair texture- "gave them away"?
Someone else already asked you if there were forms that categorized the traveling Irish as belonging to a different race and whether these forms were common when applying to different institutions.
This might help us better understand if race could used against them even after they became indistinguishable from the rest of the population (if the latter's possible).
I would love to lose my accent, I think it's gradually fading, but still sounds English to Irish people, but not as much to English people. But I don't mind losing my English accent because I am Irish, If I were English then that would be different.
If I were to lose my accent I would there would be nothing about me that would stand out, because I am Irish, I look Irish, I don't have any other English traits.
Although despite having an English accent, people in England know that I'm Irish, they know from my name, from the way I look, from things I say and mannerisms that simply cannot be got rid of. I could never be English in England.
My children is a different issue, my son is part Chinese, I don't know how different he will look as he grows but I hope he never experiences any racism.
I don't know how much you know about the Irish travelling community, but to suggest that they try to dress and speak differently to fit in would be extremely offensive to them. They have their own culture that they prize highly, and rightly so, to suggest that they discard it in order to fit in would be outrageous.
But I can see what you are saying, if they wished to do so it is possible. And therefore they have a choice that is not available to other races. Although I think it would take many generations before people would stop noticing. There are plenty of settled travellers who still experience discrimination.
But having the choice to blend in doesn't mean that they shouldn't be entitled to the definition of ethnic minority that they have in the UK.
I'm not sure exactly what forms exist, as I'e never had to deal with the issue. But any form I've had to fill in where you have to check a box for race the option for Irish traveller is always there.
I think the problem some people have is understanding how white people can consider other white people a different race, seeing as it hasn't happened in America.
I don't know that much about this issue, but the closest example I can think of of Racism of people with the same skin colour is the genocide in Rwanda. Correct me if I'm wrong, but surely the ethnic cleansing of the tutsis by the Hutus was racist surely?
And when the Japanese invaded China, murdering hundreds of thousands of Chinese people whilst proclaiming themselves to be a superior race, was this not racism?