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Reverse racism - Page 8

post #141 of 417
A lot of us feel like we are repeating ourselves. Seems to be part of the process.

But someone else, with a knowledge of your laws, has already said that definition of "race" is outdated.

Beyond that, consider this:

Are the Irish Travelers being discriminated against because they are white? Or is it because of their ethnicity?
post #142 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy View Post
Are the Irish Travelers being discriminated against because they are white? Or is it because of their ethnicity?
Ethnicity and race are not as distinct from one another, linguistically, in the UK and Ireland as they are in the US.
post #143 of 417
I'm not trying to upset anyone, I'm giving up because I'm getting stressed about it, I don't cope well with being involved in heavy discussions, it makes me anxious, and I need to stop getting involved because it's not good for me. I wish I had just read the thread and not posted, I can't cope with people being angry with me. No one seems to be able to understand because you are looking at it from an american perspective only.

Yes the English laws are outdated, but the attitudes haven't completely changed.

They are being discriminated against because of their ethnicity, despite being white. Here that constitutes as racism, I provided a link. If you don't consider it racism in America, then you have to accept that it is different here, not that everyone living on this side of the world is wrong.

If I have said anything hurtful then I am genuinely really sorry, I really don't want to hurt anyone. I have felt hurt at the way racism against the Irish, which is very real to Irish people, has been dismissed. I'd like to think that no one meant to dismiss it, but I'm not sure if that is true.
post #144 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolar2 View Post
Ethnicity and race are not as distinct from one another, linguistically, in the UK and Ireland as they are in the US.
This is what I'm trying to grasp.

Susuwatari said, "They are certainly white, that is my point, that white people can be the victim of racism."

It is not logical, by any definition, in any country, to claim that white people are the victim of racism when the people discriminating against them are also considered white.

The Irish Travelers are not being discriminated because they are white but because they are Travelers.

There's a difference. By anyone's definition or lens.

ETA: x-posted with Susuwatari.

I'm not dismissing what has occurred in Europe. I don't consider defining it as prejudice, discrimination or bigotry to be dismissive.
post #145 of 417
I want to ask a question, to help me understand.

I am not multiracial. I'm 100% white. I was raised by my mother and my stepdad. He is deceased now, but he was Japanese and married my mom when I was two. We lived far away from my mother's family, so the only family I had was Japanese, and I even thought I was Japanese until I was four or five.

We lived in Hawaii. On Oahu, the current white population numbers about 21%. I don't know what it was back in the 70's and 80's, but I know there were only a half-dozen or so white kids in my K-6 elementary school. None of the teachers/administrators were white. My junior-high and high schools accomodated military kids, so there were many white kids there, but only one or two white teachers. (I'm wondering now if the demographics are counting military people, of which there are a ton on Oahu).

I was not treated kindly by many of my classmates, for no other reason than having blonde hair and blue eyes. In Hawaii, the term "haole" is used to denote a white person, and is often used in a derogatory fashion. Stupid haole, Haole sh*t, etc. I heard it often. Kill-Haole Day was on the last day of school every year. I usually ran home as fast as I could while trying not to draw attention to myself.

Anyway. Is this merely prejudice, or is it racism? White people are definitely not in power on a local level in the Aloha State.
post #146 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy View Post
This is what I'm trying to grasp.

Susuwatari said, "They are certainly white, that is my point, that white people can be the victim of racism."

It is not logical, by any definition, in any country, to claim that white people are the victim of racism when the people discriminating against them are also considered white.

The Irish Travelers are not being discriminated because they are white but because they are Travelers.

There's a difference. By anyone's definition or lens.

ETA: x-posted with Susuwatari.

I'm not dismissing what has occurred in Europe. I don't consider defining it as prejudice, discrimination or bigotry to be dismissive.
Missy
From what Susuwatari and lolar are writing.
Yes, they are all white, but they don't define race by skin color alone there. Since there are more factors involved in their definition of race than the ones WE use to define race- they do belong to different races.
So, over there- it IS racism.
post #147 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanessaS View Post
2. My children are NOT anemic or sick. They're just pale.
Lol... I get this (towards my kids) all the time from darker people.
post #148 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2xy View Post
Anyway. Is this merely prejudice, or is it racism? White people are definitely not in power on a local level in the Aloha State.
It would be prejudice, because on a national level white people are in power; but not "merely" prejudice. You can have instances of very mild racism and very bad prejudice.
post #149 of 417

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post #150 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoMaH View Post
Missy
From what Susuwatari and lolar are writing.
Yes, they are all white, but they don't define race by skin color alone there. Since there are more factors involved in their definition of race than the ones WE use to define race- they do belong to different races.
So, over there- it IS racism.
Still trying to grasp this...

It seems simplistic to say that, since the Travelers are white, white people can be the target of racism, even from other white people.

Because it goes beyond being white. They are not being discriminated against because they are white. It's more than that.
post #151 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2xy View Post
I want to ask a question, to help me understand.

I am not multiracial. I'm 100% white. I was raised by my mother and my stepdad. He is deceased now, but he was Japanese and married my mom when I was two. We lived far away from my mother's family, so the only family I had was Japanese, and I even thought I was Japanese until I was four or five.

We lived in Hawaii. On Oahu, the current white population numbers about 21%. I don't know what it was back in the 70's and 80's, but I know there were only a half-dozen or so white kids in my K-6 elementary school. None of the teachers/administrators were white. My junior-high and high schools accomodated military kids, so there were many white kids there, but only one or two white teachers. (I'm wondering now if the demographics are counting military people, of which there are a ton on Oahu).

I was not treated kindly by many of my classmates, for no other reason than having blonde hair and blue eyes. In Hawaii, the term "haole" is used to denote a white person, and is often used in a derogatory fashion. Stupid haole, Haole sh*t, etc. I heard it often. Kill-Haole Day was on the last day of school every year. I usually ran home as fast as I could while trying not to draw attention to myself.

Anyway. Is this merely prejudice, or is it racism? White people are definitely not in power on a local level in the Aloha State.
Again, that's just so awful for you (and the other kids).

Back to your question, I wouldn't say "merely" prejudice. One definition isn't more severe than another.

Tough questions, I tell ya! Again, I'm not sure what to think of this one. :
On the one hand, I think it could be racism in that case.
Hawaii didn't even become a state until the mid-late 50s right? If white people were/are not in power there, then I'm guessing it fits the definition of racism.

On the other hand, are white people oppressed there, as in - are the number of white people in power representative of the population? Are they denied housing, schooling, employment?

OK, I know that probably didn't answer your question. Sorry, I'm not sure.
post #152 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy View Post
Still trying to grasp this...

It seems simplistic to say that, since the Travelers are white, white people can be the target of racism, even from other white people.

Because it goes beyond being white. They are not being discriminated against because they are white. It's more than that.
"White" is not a race there, just a skin color. Race is defined by other factors there.
They would actually mark different "races" from each other on a form.

The rest of the world doesn't define race as the U.S. does. Perhaps that's why the discussion has gotten heated on here in the past, differences in definitions. Perhaps the discussion ended before everyone understood this difference?
post #153 of 417
Maybe Off topic, but I am tired and feeling punchy.

In African countries were ethnic groups fight each other to genocidal proportions, I have never heard it termed as racism at least not by US or European terminology.
post #154 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoMaH View Post
"White" is not a race there, just a skin color. Race is defined by other factors there.
They would actually mark different "races" from each other on a form.

The rest of the world doesn't define race as the U.S. does. Perhaps that's why the discussion has gotten heated on here in the past, differences in definitions. Perhaps the discussion ended before everyone understood this difference?
I'd buy that, except that the discussions that have gotten heated on here in the past have been between Americans.
post #155 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yinsum View Post
Maybe Off topic, but I am tired and feeling punchy.

In African countries were ethnic groups fight each other to genocidal proportions, I have never heard it termed as racism at least not by US or European terminology.
Thanks, Yin. That's what I thought, too.
post #156 of 417
I don't entirely agree with you Yinsum. In Rwanda the Belgians did teach the Hutu and Tutsi to see themselves as different races.
post #157 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chamomile Girl View Post
I don't entirely agree with you Yinsum. In Rwanda the Belgians did teach the Hutu and Tutsi to see themselves as different races.
Taught, but are they actually.
Blacks in a America were taught for centuries that they were nothing more than chattel, but that did not make it so.
post #158 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yinsum View Post
Taught, but are they actually.
Blacks in a America were taught for centuries that they were nothing more than chattel, but that did not make it so.
Yes taught, but unfortunately the belief is still strong which is why the genocide there occurred. The Belgians came in and lifted the lighter skinned Rwandans into power...and taught them that they were racially different. Since race is a social construction in the first place this is really all it takes...today they see themselves as different races. The resonant power of colonial domination...
post #159 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Susuwatari View Post
I'm not trying to upset anyone, I'm giving up because I'm getting stressed about it, I don't cope well with being involved in heavy discussions, it makes me anxious, and I need to stop getting involved because it's not good for me. I wish I had just read the thread and not posted, I can't cope with people being angry with me. No one seems to be able to understand because you are looking at it from an american perspective only.

Yes the English laws are outdated, but the attitudes haven't completely changed.

They are being discriminated against because of their ethnicity, despite being white. Here that constitutes as racism, I provided a link. If you don't consider it racism in America, then you have to accept that it is different here, not that everyone living on this side of the world is wrong.

If I have said anything hurtful then I am genuinely really sorry, I really don't want to hurt anyone. I have felt hurt at the way racism against the Irish, which is very real to Irish people, has been dismissed. I'd like to think that no one meant to dismiss it, but I'm not sure if that is true.
It was frustration- not anger. Don't go away, no one's angry at you (at least, I don't think they are).
I don't think you intended to be hurtful. It was just interpreted as a dismissal/undermining, same as you did.
I think we get it now.
Race has different definitions worldwide.. and we, on this side of the pond, often forget that people post from other parts of the world. We assume everyone's just being stubborn- because sometimes, well, people are.
post #160 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy View Post
I'd buy that, except that the discussions that have gotten heated on here in the past have been between Americans.

Yeah, I can see that too.
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