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Reverse racism - Page 9

post #161 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yinsum View Post
Taught, but are they actually.
Blacks in a America were taught for centuries that they were nothing more than chattel, but that did not make it so.
Yeah, but if you read up on the definition of race in the U.S., it's changed throughout history.
The census forms have changed, and continue to change.
post #162 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoMaH View Post
Yeah, but if you read up on the definition of race in the U.S., it's changed throughout history.
The census forms have changed, and continue to change.
Good, I hope somebody gets word to the brothers on the street that still get the beat down for being black driving while black...

and I know these people will be relieved to know that
post #163 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yinsum View Post
and I know these people will be relieved to know that
Holy Sh!t.
post #164 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamajama View Post
Holy Sh!t.
Exactly.
post #165 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoMaH View Post
Again, that's just so awful for you (and the other kids).

Back to your question, I wouldn't say "merely" prejudice. One definition isn't more severe than another.

Tough questions, I tell ya! Again, I'm not sure what to think of this one. :
On the one hand, I think it could be racism in that case.
Hawaii didn't even become a state until the mid-late 50s right? If white people were/are not in power there, then I'm guessing it fits the definition of racism.

On the other hand, are white people oppressed there, as in - are the number of white people in power representative of the population? Are they denied housing, schooling, employment?

OK, I know that probably didn't answer your question. Sorry, I'm not sure.
In Hawaii, if you are white, you get a taste of what it can be like to be a POC in places where people are racist toward POC. But you also feel like an @$$ when you complain because people tell you how you are expecting special treatment because white people have had special treatment everywhere else forever.

To me, racism is racism, and it's wrong no matter who it happens to, but I have a new appreciation for what my friends have gone through in the south. When I drove through the south as I moved cross country, I noticed that only POC were pulled over, even though everyone was speeding, and it pi$$ed me off, but it pi$$es you off on a whole different level when the discrimination happens to you personally, and frequently. It isn't pretty, but it's totally different to stand up for someone else once as opposed to feeling persecuted on a daily basis and being indignant on your own behalf. You can walk away from someone else's problems.

If I had been subjected to this on the same level as African Americans were in most of the US, and for the length of time they have been, I would be incredibly angry all the time. It's infuriating to be treated lousy based on skin color, and I honestly don't know how the various races and religions have endured over the years without resorting to violence. The stereotypical 'angry black man' seems to me like a perfectly normal response, yk? When some kids were mean to my dsd at school based on skin color I was absolutely beside myself. And again, I know what we deal with is NOTHING compared to what others have endured over the years. It still sucks. I know I've gone to apply for jobs here and my app has been tossed because I was white. There is a lot of nepotism and racism at work in getting a job here, and a lot of resentment toward white people who have moved here.

I feel like it goes both ways. On the one hand, the white man originally stole Hawaii. But on the other hand, what was left of Hawaii has been sold to the highest bidder, and everyone here had a hand in that, including Hawaiians. People are all in arms about the recent skit on Saturday Night Live, but there are a lot of people here who truly feel that way. They rely on tourist dollars for their income, but they talk trash about them right after they take their money. They have junk cars in their front yards but they talk about how the white man is trashing Hawaii. The don't want people to make jokes about meth labs, but unfortunately there are meth labs everywhere.

I've been a victim of a crime here and the police go out of their way to get you not to file a report, not to take evidence and to keep the crime stats aritificially low so they don't hurt tourism. I had to tell the officer something like 6 times I am not a tourist I live here! They want you to shut up and go away after they get your money, period.If you are part of the problem you can't point fingers.

There are some incredible people here, but anyone who thinks there is no racism, or it doesn't happen to white people hasn't lived here. And anyone who thinks our legal system and our political system here aren't corrupt isn't paying attention. Veering OT, but right now we're almost at the bottom of the country when it comes to education, yet instead of doing anything to improve our standing, the state has OK'd building projects within the school system instead because government officials have contractor friends who profit.

The problems in Hawaii include poverty, nepotism, corruption, hatred and racism. Paradise isn't all pretty, that's for sure.

Everywhere I've lived there seems to be a different race that is at the bottom of the the chain. In Florida everyone wanted to blame the Cubans for everything, but every Cuban I met was hardworking, honest, and family oriented, despite the bad press Reader's Digest and everyone else gave them for being all of the criminals expelled from the country. It just wasn't so.

In Texas and California, when people will admit to it, Mexicans are the bottom of the chain. California especially people will pretend to be PC, but in private they speak differently. I took great pleasure in stopping people as they yammered...have I shown you a photo of my son? He's half Mexican and I always loved to watch their faces redden after they had gone on about the bleeping Mexicans.

You can't blame all the problems in any area on one race. It's ignorant and doesn't solve anything. I've never lived anywhere there wasn't at least 2 sides to every issue, yk? But people get so caught up in their own hatred and BS they can't stop fighting long enough to come up with real solutions.
post #166 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoMaH View Post
On the other hand, are white people oppressed there, as in - are the number of white people in power representative of the population? Are they denied housing, schooling, employment?
In regards to white people in power, I would venture to guess that's a "no."

As for being denied housing, schooling, etc....I doubt that schooling is denied (except in the case of Kamehameha Schools....lol), because money is money. I've never lived there as an adult; I left home just a few months after graduation....but I can totally envision people not wanting to hire or rent to "haoles."

Interestingly enough, although the native Hawaiians have the right to be somewhat angry at what happened to their land, they have gone the way of native Americans....you never see a full-blooded native Hawaiian there. The populations who are most hostile to whites (IME) are the Japanese and Filipinos....and I think it's kind of funny that the Filipinos were the last group of immigrants to make their way to Hawaii, and they treat whites like the "outsiders."

And for the record, blacks aren't treated very nicely, either. If you're a moderate shade of brown and have straightish hair, you might be able to pass for a "local" and not draw negative attention to yourself.
post #167 of 417
Curious about how education is taught in Hawaii. I mentioned before here how HIStory in the US is often taught with a lack luster approach to most people of color especially blacks. This watered down rewritten knowledge is taught to children of all colors. If we want to have a chance at changing perceptions, we need to remember it starts with our children.
Does Hawaii education show white people as a negative to society? Are tv shows and the media such that young white children are provided with images that foster a sense of inferiority?
post #168 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yinsum View Post
Maybe Off topic, but I am tired and feeling punchy.

In African countries were ethnic groups fight each other to genocidal proportions, I have never heard it termed as racism at least not by US or European terminology.
I've heard the Darfur slaughter referred to as race-related on TV in the US, but I am not sure what station. (CNN maybe?)
post #169 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolar2 View Post
I've heard the Darfur slaughter referred to as race-related on TV in the US, but I am not sure what station. (CNN maybe?)

It seems to me that it would be inaccurate to say race related. The genocide has more to do with ethnicity rather than race.
post #170 of 417
Except that the perpetrators refer to themselves as "Arab" and to the victims as "black" so apparently they consider themselves different races.
post #171 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by lolar2 View Post
Except that the perpetrators refer to themselves as "Arab" and to the victims as "black" so apparently they consider themselves different races.

It's so much more complicated than that. Actually, trying to infuse this situation into a discussion of american racism is futile. It is just as complicated as the Israeli/Palestinian conflict.
post #172 of 417
No, you're right, I get that. I was just answering a very specific question in a very specific way. Does the western media ever refer to intra-African ethnic conflict as "racist"? Yes, I know of at least one instance where it has. That's all, without regard to whether those references are legitimate or accurate.
post #173 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yinsum View Post
Does Hawaii education show white people as a negative to society? Are tv shows and the media such that young white children are provided with images that foster a sense of inferiority?
We're in our 3rd school year here, and finally got moved to a better school. This is the first year my kids have talked about learning any history at all other than a quickie chapter on Hawaiian history that was very brief, watered down, and lacking in detail.

We've learned more on our own about Hawaiian history than they have been taught at school. It's interesting to get the story from several perspectives because obviously each group spins things to show themselves in the best light. The Captain Cook story is a perfect example...Aussies have a slightly different version of the story than Americans have been taught, while Hawaiians view it much differently.

IMO, Cook was arrogant and made blunders that led to his death, but the details are up for interpretation because each group reported them differently. And nobody can dispute the fact that the white man stole Hawaii in the first place, because that's true.

But if you want your children to get an education in Hawaii, you have a few choices. You teach them yourself, you pay for private school, or you do like we do and pull them out of the terrible schools (and there are plenty of them) to commute to better ones. Our kids commute to school like most adults do for jobs, but we saw differences within 3 weeks of making the change and I wish we had done it sooner.

It's a completely different type of racism here than what you see on the mainland. On the mainland you see various races depicted in the media negatively, and those races are often actively discriminated against IRL. Here, people of various races are not depicted negatively in the media, but there is an air of tension between various races and areas where there is no inter-mingling, something I haven't seen anywhere since the early 70s.

Sometimes there is open hostility, and there is always the obvious division between races. We have a small local grocery store in our neighborhood, and when employees go outside to picnic tables to go on break, you never see the races mingling. All the people of various races go on break together and sit together, and you never see any of them mixing with someone of another race. There is just no way this is coincidental. It's the same way when you shop there, none of the various races are communicating with each other.

It's hard to describe, but when you've spent time in the SF Bay Area and you're used to so many different cultures expecting to mingle, and your children are used to this, it's a rude awakening to encounter this step back in time to the 50s.
post #174 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2xy View Post
Interestingly enough, although the native Hawaiians have the right to be somewhat angry at what happened to their land, they have gone the way of native Americans....you never see a full-blooded native Hawaiian there.
I just wanted to point out that there ARE full blooded Native Americans.
post #175 of 417
Big eyes, I am asking for clarity sake are white people depicted in history books and the media as inferior or often in a negative light? You said various races so I am trying to make sure I understand what you are saying.

And SFBay sounds like a great area to be in. However, in the 2000's here on the east coast especially the south you have to search for diversity. And many areas are very segregated and neglected. Have you heard about the South Carolina Corridor of shame? I think the schools were actually in better working conditions in the 50's.
post #176 of 417
Interesting the different perspectives people have. My ex moved to HI about 7 years ago. When he and I speak I hear a lot from him about the racism there directed toward native Hawaiians and how much it bothers him. The balance of power in that most of the property and wealth in HI is controlled by white people. The segregation you talked of too, he has talked about, and compares it to mainland south in the 1960s. Schools in poorer ares with mostly native families are underfunded, there are communities without resources for healthy living much like the poor black neighborhoods of Los Angeles.

Anyway my ex is white, and he doesn't ever think he has been the victim of racism, but does believe the classiest segregated society he lives in (he's on the big island) is stacked against Hawaiians and is racist against the locals.
post #177 of 417
In response to the whole hawaii racism conversation. How were the native people of Hawaii treated in the past?
post #178 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yinsum View Post
Big eyes, I am asking for clarity sake are white people depicted in history books and the media as inferior or often in a negative light? You said various races so I am trying to make sure I understand what you are saying.

And SFBay sounds like a great area to be in. However, in the 2000's here on the east coast especially the south you have to search for diversity. And many areas are very segregated and neglected. Have you heard about the South Carolina Corridor of shame? I think the schools were actually in better working conditions in the 50's.
I don't see anyone in the history books or media depicted as inferior, but you have to understand when I say for the first 2 years my children were not taught any history except for 1 very brief chapter. My son came home and asked me Shouldn't we be studying some kind of history? I don't even know if I can describe for you how substandard the school was. They are still pulling asbestos out, and during school programs they were singing religious songs and people acted like I was out of line for questioning the legality of it. Public school. The children who don't speak English spend 1 day a week in a class to learn, the rest of the week they stick them in special ed and ignore them instead of having translators or some other help.

For the first few months I thought the stories I had heard were all trumped up, but then I realized people had been nice to me because they thought I was just passing through. Once we were officially transplants and no longer thought of tourists who were spending our money and leaving, things changed. I've also noticed it seems to vary a little from neighborhood to neighborhood. Our community is very small, and very segregated. When my dh stopped to help a Marshalleshian woman whose car had run out of gas, her whole family surrounded his car in a very threatening way when he dropped her off at home. He said he stopped because she had 2 babies with her, but the way they reacted when he dropped her off scared the cr@p out of him. I drive by their place every day on my way home with my children, and I always smile and wave, since that's what people do here, but they never wave back. They're so used to people hating them they probably figure I'm just another one, yk?

Everyone here is so suspicious of everyone else. In the new school there are a lot of Bay Area transplants and mixed race kids so there are fewer racial problems, but we're sending our children to school an hour and a half away from home. That's quite a long way to go to stop my dsd from being called an effing haole every day. :
post #179 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by futurmama8 View Post
In response to the whole hawaii racism conversation. How were the native people of Hawaii treated in the past?
Lousy. They had their whole culture destroyed, they have been infantilized and sexualized, had their culture made into a cartoon....it isn't pretty.

There is a movement now to restore native lands and have their own system of government, but it's much like the situation with the Native Americans, too little too late.

I don't think there is a perfect or fair solution. And frankly, a lot of the 'effing haole' stuff doesn't even come from the native Hawaiians, it's other ethnic groups who use it. It all just makes me sad after being in the Bay Area and knowing if someone used the N word a bunch of people would set them straight in a hurry. Here, so often people you think are perfectly nice will pop off with something nasty about the Marshallese, or you'll hear 'effing haole' behind your back, or you hear about an incident at the beach or at a school and it's just sad that all this beauty is marred by something so ugly when all these cultures have so much to offer each other.
post #180 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigeyes View Post
Lousy. They had their whole culture destroyed, they have been infantilized and sexualized, had their culture made into a cartoon....it isn't pretty.

There is a movement now to restore native lands and have their own system of government, but it's much like the situation with the Native Americans, too little too late.

I don't think there is a perfect or fair solution. And frankly, a lot of the 'effing haole' stuff doesn't even come from the native Hawaiians, it's other ethnic groups who use it. It all just makes me sad after being in the Bay Area and knowing if someone used the N word a bunch of people would set them straight in a hurry. Here, so often people you think are perfectly nice will pop off with something nasty about the Marshallese, or you'll hear 'effing haole' behind your back, or you hear about an incident at the beach or at a school and it's just sad that all this beauty is marred by something so ugly when all these cultures have so much to offer each other.
Okay I get what your saying. Wouldn't these people be reacting to the racism that they have felt from white people in the past and present? I really see them being skeptical and not trusting of white people from their past. I know this is true within the black community, so many mothers try to tell their sons not date white women because they can cause trouble and get you hurt (which in SOME cases it is still true like Genarlow Wilson). This mindset in the black community has been passed down and it is very understandable (look at Emmit Till) and it is NOT racism but a reaction to the racism. Maybe that is how the people in Hawaii feel, maybe their anscetors passed down horrible things that happened to them by white people and now they have a disdain for them. Just throwing ideas out thats all.
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