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Reverse racism - Page 2

post #21 of 417
When I was in middle school, I was talking with a guy I went to school with. Really popular guy, went on to be our homecoming king. He's black, pretty dark, and he knew exactly the line to walk...We talked often, but I will never forget this particular conversation. He said then, at age 13, he was going to marry a white girl so his children would be lighter and he wasn't going to give them names like "LaVonda", and "LaDonna", and "LaShelle"; they were going to have "normal" names, "white" names, like "Caroline" and "Jennifer".

That wasn't something he was taught at home; I knew his parents fairly well. It was something he was taught by observing how things worked where we lived. It wasn't racism, or reverse racism--it was a reaction to the racism we lived with.

As we grew up, he cultivated friendships in the "right" crowds while still never actually cutting anyone else off. He knew which white girls he could safely date, never doing anything beyond flirting with the girls in the same crowd of his closest friends because those girls were off-limits. He, like I said, was homecoming king. Or maybe it was prom king. Either way, he couldn't have dated the girl who was on the court opposite him and he knew it. He, very sadly, "knew his place". His actions were a direct and absolute result of the racism engrained in our community. He wasn't racist; he was reacting to racism.
post #22 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanessaS View Post
I wasn't referring to monoracial couples in general but to couples in which they look they twins. My BIL has been asked on numerous occasions if his girlfriend is his sister (by other Germans), so I don't think I'm the only one who wonders about it. They look that much alike. Even their neighbors (who are hardly a heterogeneous group themselves) and my DH have commented on it.

Wow! That's impressive. But... um... I'm actually bad with names and I couldn't remember the names of all the children in my kindergarten when I was a child. More proof that I'm a racist!


More proof that he's a racist! Maybe he should take lessons from Yinsum's more enlightened preschooler.
Again mocking my have a tendency to block others' ability to hear what you might be saying. I don't recall anyone calling you a racist. I don't use that term loosely. Too dangerous and deserves a healthy respect when identifying.


I think you missed my point about the incestuous comment. Let me clarify. Incest is a horrible crime and conjures a great deal of pain for many people. When you use such a painful image to describe a group of people any people, you again potentially close the door to open conversation. Your comment appeared to belittle one group in order to uplift another.

Not calling you a racist simply wondering about the lack of sensitvity
post #23 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by Missy View Post
I hate that I had just commented about how nice it was to have a forum that didn't dwell on generalities and then fell right into a thread that does just that.
It is a bit of a downer
post #24 of 417
Thread Starter 
I don't think that your friend's experience is the same thing as my German cousin's black DH's mother saying, "You and your black child can come visit but you need to leave the white girl and her baby at home." Both of the children are his although one is much darker than the other. He didn't visit.

Or my black aunt looking completely disgusted when my little one cries and her face gets all red and blotchy. Or my mother insisting that my children must be anemic because they're so pale. I had them tested twice. It was just that my mother and my aunt think white people look gross.

Yes, that's reverse-racism (people being prejudice against white people). Same as black women I hardly even know asking me how I can stand to marry a white man since "They're all just a bunch of rapists. Do you know what they did to black women back in the slave days?" I kid you not.

Or black people calling me a "half-breed" or an Oreo.

Go to most "African-American" forums and you can bathe in it. Threads like "Sistah's doin the swirl -- how can she stand it?", or "Obama's not black!", or "Why white people are ugly", or "Are you a race traitor if you date a mulatto?", or "Why BM need to stay with BW". Listen to some of the things Chris Rock says. It's cringe-worthy. Or did you see the comedy act in "Something New"? They put that in the movie to show that this type of mentality is common in the AA community. I have yet to see an AA forum that didn't at least occasionally have a thread like this so I've given up on them.

Maybe you've never received such comments, looks, or behaviour. Consider yourself lucky. But it's real and it's out there and it's disgusting.
post #25 of 417
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Make fun of the smart kid when your argument is weak & hard to defend.
The smart kid? Are you questioning my intelligence? Being able to memorize people's names is not, in fact, a sign of higher general intellect. It's sort of like being able to recite all of the baseball players who have ever played for the Yankees. My point is that memorizing people's names that you spend every day with is not pertinent to my argument that after being introduced to 150 black people who are all related to each other my DH (who had never personally met a black person other than myself) can't remember the name of each specific one. And that that isn't something I hold against him. He can tell them apart NOW but he couldn't the first time he came to a family reunion.

Quote:
because from your blog, you're like, 15 shades lighter than Tyra Banks
I'm a completely different color in the summer but I have no summer pics on the blog. Mixed people are like that sometimes.
post #26 of 417
Really? I had NO IDEA that bi-racial people changed colors! Huh. I wonder how I never noticed that, when my dad is black, and my mom is white.

No, I wasn't questioning your intelligence. I was saying that your comment belittled your argument even further.
post #27 of 417
But to the pertinant point...NO that is not racism. Racism is academically defined as power plus predjudice. And, while some individual folks of Color might have the power, systemically speaking, we're still at a disadvantage, economically, academically, and so on. So to that end, there is no such thing as 'reverse-racism'. I can link you to some books that you might be interested in, if you want to learn more about it.

That being said, you can certainly find predjudice on all shades of the spectrum. And lord knows, ignorance knows no color. But racism? It's a pretty much one-sided dealio.
post #28 of 417
Vanessa you mocked my daughter... not cool to mock a child. My point was that it is within us to distinguish individuals. Whether you can remember names or not.


And please please don't put out there that MOST AA Forums are some bastion of hate that white slave master. Perhaps your search skills require assistance. There are tribes here; try PMing a sister. Many good positive forums by AA that don't revolve around "you sold out to massa".
It's unfortunate that your white mother has issues with white skin. That's another issue all together. Labeling it racist when she doesn't have access to systematically deny and block opportunities to other whites because of their skin color might be subject to opinion.
Girl you need a new set of friends if the lot of black women you encounter are giving you such grief about marrying a white man. I must be mistaken because I saw that you have mentioned the benefit of living in a haven free from that sort of ridicule.
post #29 of 417
Main Entry: rac·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-\
Function: noun
Date: 1933
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

this is the definition of racism. I would say that most people have predjudices and stereotypes and that is normal but I don't think anyone is calling you racist VanessaS and I don't think you should call anyone else racist. Its not a word we should just be throwing around.

Also can I say it is ok if you are wrong.. That is how we learn. We are a community that sticks together and teaches one another. I think some people need to admit they don't know as something or may be ignorant to a subject and then maybe we can help. Otherwise we'd all be stuck in the same place
post #30 of 417
http://www.edchange.org/multicultura...eb/racism.html

Quote:
As the dawn of the 21st century nears, racism‹the most important and persistent social problem in America and in the world today‹is on the rise in increasing ways. Whether we are talking about ethnic cleansings, group hatred or retraction of equity laws under the guise that these are unfair, the underlying issue is the same. One group, threatened by the perceived loss of power, exercises social, economic and political muscle against the Other to retain privilege by restructuring for social advantage. Such actions and efforts call for an understanding of the basic concepts of prejudice and racism, and how to lessen their destructive effect.

At the heart of prejudice lies two concepts: ignorance and fear.
post #31 of 417
Thread Starter 
I have no problem being wrong but I sincerely feel that in this point, I am actually right.

I live here but i don't stay here. And there's plenty of it all over the States. Enough to go around.
My close friends aren't like that. Some relatives and some acquaintances, but not my friends (who I've obviously chosen carefully).
As far as I know, racism is prejudice against someone's race. It doesn't have to have something to do with power.

The definition you quoted (from Merriam-Webster) goes on to say:
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination

Quote:
racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
That's my point. I know people (both black and white) who believe that white people are inferior. It's like they internalized the racism against themselves, turned it around, and threw it back in others' faces. They feel that it's okay to be prejudice if people are prejudice against them. Sort of like where my mom works. Most of the management is black and they prefer to hire other black people. There's a lot of "nepotism" there.

Quote:
My point was that it is within us to distinguish individuals.
And my point is that: no it is not. At least not for everybody. The gifted forum has actually had a number of threads on this topic because there are many people out there who have difficulty remembering faces and differentiating between different persons. Having the people have the same hair, skin, facial features, body size, body shape, same accent, same vocabulary and then saying, "Well, you should try harder to differentiate between them or there is something wrong with you." is sort of like telling a dyslexic to "just look at the letters harder." Some people struggle with this (we software engineers are famous for it) as it is and homogeneous groups do make it more difficult. They just do. You can say what you want about me not being sensitive or PC or whatever, but if you put me in Iceland I will have trouble telling the people apart. Make what you like of it.

But my kids have woken up now so I have to go make dinner.
post #32 of 417
I am sorry VanessaS but racism does have to do with power. In AMERICA racism is built within the the whole system of how this country was run. Look at President Obama, race is so prevalent that he is the 1st black president, ok whatever but why when Mr. Bush became president wasn't it, we have the 43 white president? Because in this country white is the default so that means white people in fact are in "power" here. Otherwise their would be no need for your other thread about affirmative action, nor would their be a such thing as white privilege. You should really read Juwanza Kunjufu he writes great books and they aren't that long.

I once read that racism from white in the past and sometimes the present is from an insecurity that they will somehow become extinct (hence the need for marrying within your race, trying to take over other countries, creating caste systems and making darker races lighter until they eventually become completely white). I have to remember where I read it but it was pretty interesting.
post #33 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanessaS View Post
This is sort of like the way that German men would tell me that I "look exactly like..." Halle Berry, Teira Banks, Vanessa Williams, etc. Whatever light-skinned black girl they'd seen on a magazine cover lately. I didn't really but TO THEM we all looked the same because they didn't notice the differences, only the similarities.
yeah, could be. Or they were hitting on you and trying to flatter you.
post #34 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanessaS View Post
I don't think that your friend's experience is the same thing as my German cousin's black DH's mother saying, "You and your black child can come visit but you need to leave the white girl and her baby at home." Both of the children are his although one is much darker than the other. He didn't visit.

Or my black aunt looking completely disgusted when my little one cries and her face gets all red and blotchy. Or my mother insisting that my children must be anemic because they're so pale. I had them tested twice. It was just that my mother and my aunt think white people look gross.

Yes, that's reverse-racism (people being prejudice against white people). Same as black women I hardly even know asking me how I can stand to marry a white man since "They're all just a bunch of rapists. Do you know what they did to black women back in the slave days?" I kid you not.

Or black people calling me a "half-breed" or an Oreo.

Go to most "African-American" forums and you can bathe in it. Threads like "Sistah's doin the swirl -- how can she stand it?", or "Obama's not black!", or "Why white people are ugly", or "Are you a race traitor if you date a mulatto?", or "Why BM need to stay with BW". Listen to some of the things Chris Rock says. It's cringe-worthy. Or did you see the comedy act in "Something New"? They put that in the movie to show that this type of mentality is common in the AA community. I have yet to see an AA forum that didn't at least occasionally have a thread like this so I've given up on them.

Maybe you've never received such comments, looks, or behaviour. Consider yourself lucky. But it's real and it's out there and it's disgusting.
I think you just haven't found the right forums yet, I have been part of a few online communities of Black women and we don't have these types of discussions. Yes, there are a few sistas who may wonder why I am married to a white man, but no one would ever say anything outloud.

I'm sorry you have had such negative experiences with black women.
post #35 of 417
I haven't read through the replies yet - but I'm about it. I just read the original post and I know exactly how you feel. My husband is Mexican and Polish but looks 100% Mexican LOL. I'm Irish and Scottish. I'm as pale as possible ;-) We have 4 kids and 1 on the way.

DC1 is not dark but he isn't white - he is somewhere in the middle but I wouldn't even classify it as olive? IDK how to explain LOL. He looks like a white kid with a tan and brown hair and brown eyes. LOL.

DC2 is a white girl with blonde hair and blue-green eyes. She looks like me when I was a child - except she has hubbys curly hair and his beautiful eyelashes. She can tan in the sun so we figure one day she will look like a little beach bum surfer girl (we live near the beach in FL)

DC3 is dark. He has dark skin, dark hair, dark eyes. He doesn't quite look Mexican but he does look hispanic. He turns almost black in summer. LOL.

DC4 is our whitest child yet. He is so pale that he actually almost matches his white fuzzi bunz (we almost took him out in a white fuzzi bunz for Halloween as "Casper" haha) He's got red hair and bright blue eyes. He is the traditional Irish kid LOL.


I've gotten SOOOO many comments about "I bet you are hoping for a dark girl so you will have dark boys, light boys, light girls, and dark girls".. Umm no? LOL. I'm hoping for a healthy baby regardless of sex and skintone. LOL. Mainly from my husbands family (they were upset he married a white girl - even though they themselves all married white people LOL). They expected him to marry a Mexican girl and have little dark babies to "bring back the Mexican race" as they call it. Annoying!

My MIL was also upset that our first child was a boy. She wanted a girl and since then she has always seemed strange to me LOL.

But yeah, I totally get the comments. ugh!
post #36 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by futurmama8 View Post
Main Entry: rac·ism
Pronunciation: \ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-\
Function: noun
Date: 1933
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race

this is the definition of racism. I would say that most people have predjudices and stereotypes and that is normal but I don't think anyone is calling you racist VanessaS and I don't think you should call anyone else racist. Its not a word we should just be throwing around.

Also can I say it is ok if you are wrong.. That is how we learn. We are a community that sticks together and teaches one another. I think some people need to admit they don't know as something or may be ignorant to a subject and then maybe we can help. Otherwise we'd all be stuck in the same place

You're awesome. This thread came up when I hit new posts and I saw the title, and heard a needle scratch clear across a 12" in my head. You put my thoughts on this so well. Thank you.
post #37 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by artgoddess View Post
You're awesome. This thread came up when I hit new posts and I saw the title, and heard a needle scratch clear across a 12" in my head. You put my thoughts on this so well. Thank you.
: You made me blush Thanks and you are welcome
post #38 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by VanessaS View Post
BTW, you look just like a cousin of mine!
Really? That's cool.

Quote:
Like I remember nobody minded my dating white guys (Get your swirl on, girl!) but when we announced our engagement my female relatives all asked me why I couldn't find a "nice, black man". Ugh.
I actually got that from my sister. She said, "All those fine black men at Temple University (where dh and I met) and you couldn't find ONE?"

Yes, b/c THAT is my criterion when marrying someone! Ugh!

I just went back and read all the posts after posting this one and was surprised to see the direction in which this thread went. Yikes!
post #39 of 417
Okay, I haven't read through the replies completely, so excuse me if someone has already put this on the table. I believe that the very term "reverse racism" is racist. Either something or someone is racist or they're not, regardless of their race. I'm white, and have experienced racism against me (the term "white b*tch" was a common one in my junior high experience). The term "reverse racism" tends to minimilize the experience. Don't I hurt just as much as anyone else when people are racist against me? Isn't it just as wrong?
post #40 of 417
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunshynbaby View Post
Okay, I haven't read through the replies completely, so excuse me if someone has already put this on the table. I believe that the very term "reverse racism" is racist. Either something or someone is racist or they're not, regardless of their race. I'm white, and have experienced racism against me (the term "white b*tch" was a common one in my junior high experience). The term "reverse racism" tends to minimilize the experience. Don't I hurt just as much as anyone else when people are racist against me? Isn't it just as wrong?
This is not exactly the place for this discussion, given that it is the multicultural forum and is supposed to be a safe place for those of us with multicultural or multiracial families, away from racism 101, and bringing this here feels...squicky. But, I don't want to just let this hang, either. To me, and many others, "reverse racism" is a racist term, but not for the reason you gave. What you experienced is prejudice. It was likely the result of racism, but it was not racism. It does not have the power of racism.
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