Racial identification - Page 2

[VanessaS]

My nieces can check all of the boxes.

[nolonger]

I haven't encountered this yet, but I would check "other". ds isn't black but he isn't white either, he's biracial.

[futurmama8]

Originally Posted by LoMaH

I've read this thread with great interest.

Just chiming in:
Regarding affirmative action, although I have some qualms about it, I strongly believe it's needed. People typically object to it because they adhere to a few myths:
1- aa is a free ride that allows an unqualified person to fill up a space. I've yet to meet a person who has benefited from aa programs who wasn't very well qualified for the position.
2- People like to believe that most jobs/seats/positions are always given to people based on merit. That's untrue. What about nepotism, fraternization, favoritism, nonracial discrimination, privilege, etc.?
The belief that *whiter* is better- goes beyond the black community. It's also present in other communities (Hispanic, Asian, etc.).
Including in the "white" community itself.

There's lots of pressure to have blonde-haired/blue-eyed children even in some sectors in the "white" community. I've witnessed 2 of my "white" brunette/brown-eyed friends be disappointed if their children were born without these physical traits. (Mind you, perhaps it's also because both of my friends are 1st generation-Americans. And perhaps they just feel a great need to completely assimilate with other European-Americans who've been here for several generations.)

When their children were born, other people relentlessly expressed disappointment if they weren't blue-eyed/blondes.
"maybe the eyes will turn blue" "ah, well, maybe the next child will be blue-eyed" "Oh, let's hope that dark hair turns blonde"

When each of them later had a child with these traits, they were praised beyond belief.

I was dumbfounded to learn that for them, being "white" just wasn't good enough. It's so sad.
Honestly, here I always thought that this mentality existed only among the people of "color".
Of course, not that there's anything wrong with being blonde and blue-eyed. That's beautiful too.
But when a mother is made to feel like she let people down because those genes didn't turn up, it's just terrible.
Anyway, just wanted to share that.

I knew this was true for people of color but you know I can only speak for the black side. But I never knew this was true within the white community. Thanks I learned something today.

Originally Posted by Joyster

My youngest should "pass" for white, my oldest should too. I think they will both have white skin privilege. If a time came when they needed to click a box signifying their race, other or mixed is usually available, however I will be teaching them the importance of white skin privilege and hopefully they would not be inclined to click black or native, unless they significantly get darker, which seems unlikely at this point.

Umm this is exactly why Affirmative action is in place because of thinking like this. Should you really be teaching your kids to "PASS" as white just so they can benefit from white privilege. This makes me really sad Man America and the world needs to change its thinking.

[Jannah6]

I haven't read this whole thread, just wanted to add my 2 cents. I always check both Black and White because that is what they are, regardless of what they look like.

[Minerva]

I've taken to checking 'other' or just leaving it blank. My father's family is Creole -- they had a habit of breeding with whoever happened to be in the area at the time. And it looks like some of my mother's ancestors were East Asian way back when. If I have to stand there and check all that apply, I'll be there all day!

[reikimama]

Anyone who thought my comment was offensive earlier, please accept my sincerest apologies. I did not mean it that way & was simply typing before thinking as I was running out the door for a long day of appts. No excuse, I should have reread what I said & thought about how it might sound. I am sorry.

[mntnmom]

I am very pale, with red hair. My mom is mostly white, but has benefitted greatly from identifying as Native American. Yes, we qualify for "white priveledge" based on skin tone, but generations of poverty, social neglect and racist government policies left my ancestors in a bad spot that my family is only now climbing out of.
Purely based on perceived ethnicity I don't "qualify" for minority programs, but the programs are intended to help correct past injustices too, so I don't feel guilty for checking the Native American box.

[Jannah6]

Originally Posted by mntnmom

I am very pale, with red hair. My mom is mostly white, but has benefitted greatly from identifying as Native American. Yes, we qualify for "white priveledge" based on skin tone, but generations of poverty, social neglect and racist government policies left my ancestors in a bad spot that my family is only now climbing out of.
Purely based on perceived ethnicity I don't "qualify" for minority programs, but the programs are intended to help correct past injustices too, so I don't feel guilty for checking the Native American box.

And you shouldn't feel guilty, you are Native American.

[Jannah6]

Originally Posted by futurmama8

Umm this is exactly why Affirmative action is in place because of thinking like this. Should you really be teaching your kids to "PASS" as white just so they can benefit from white privilege. This makes me really sad Man America and the world needs to change its thinking.

I Agree 100%.

I think that some people have such a self hatred that they marry into another race so that their children will not look like them. It's really sad

[Draupadi]

Originally Posted by futurmama8

Umm this is exactly why Affirmative action is in place because of thinking like this. Should you really be teaching your kids to "PASS" as white just so they can benefit from white privilege. This makes me really sad Man America and the world needs to change its thinking.

:

[Draupadi]

Originally Posted by Jannah6

I haven't read this whole thread, just wanted to add my 2 cents. I always check both Black and White because that is what they are, regardless of what they look like.

I haven't experienced having to choose a box yet. I was always under the impression that these things were optional. My grad school kept sending me notes asking me to fill in this information but I refused. I am black and asian, and they only told me to choose one.
William is black, asian, and white. Why do we have to choose?

As an aside, I think it's a little hypocritical to moan about how unfair AA is but still try to use it when it suits your needs.

[Joyster]

Originally Posted by futurmama8

Umm this is exactly why Affirmative action is in place because of thinking like this. Should you really be teaching your kids to "PASS" as white just so they can benefit from white privilege. This makes me really sad Man America and the world needs to change its thinking.

Well first of all, I'm not in America. Secondly, I'm not teaching my kids to pass (How do you do that anyways? Is there a way to be white?) and no where did I say I was. They just simply will by virtue of their skin colour. I can't do anything about that. However they do need to be taught that with white skin, comes privileges because our society is still racist. I'm sorry you have a problem with that.

[Joyster]

To All

Okay I see where I have been misunderstood and I'm sorry for not being clearer.

I am not teaching my kids to pass, they simply will, they are white skinned. I am teaching them about white skin privilege not so that they will take advantage of it (as much as that is possible). I am teaching it, so that they understand that others do not have it and they need to be aware of that and that privilege comes with "race" and class. And I hope with that understanding, they will not feel the need to take advantage of programs that aren't necessarily targeted towards people with white skin privilege, despite having 1/8 of this or 1/8 of that.

I really want to address a point that I found really hurtful.

I Agree 100%.

I think that some people have such a self hatred that they marry into another race so that their children will not look like them. It's really sad

I married my husband because I loved him. We've been together for 16 years now. My children are beautiful, I didn't marry my husband to have white children. To imply such a thing is one of the more nastier things that has been said about me online.

I would have appreciated a request for clarification before jumping to this conclusion, but hey, assume the worst.

[VanessaS]

I haven't encountered this yet, but I would check "other". ds isn't black but he isn't white either, he's biracial.

The issue is that sometimes there's no "other" and they won't allow you to make multiple selections. And there's a real pressure (around here, at least) to define white-looking people as "black" so that the organization/school/whatever can benefit from being diverse. There's a lot of public money riding on it. I think they should let you check all that apply or provide an "other".

Well first of all, I'm not in America. Secondly, I'm not teaching my kids to pass (How do you do that anyways? Is there a way to be white?) and no where did I say I was. They just simply will by virtue of their skin colour. I can't do anything about that.

Yeah, that's what I figured you meant. I think the other people didn't really get what you wanted to say as there's a whole history of "passing" in the States. My kids look white, as well, but I always make a point of explaining to people that they're part black (and Asian and Native American) because otherwise people wouldn't know. There really is no way to tell. I can work it into any conversation. But, I guess that's because I have a chip on my shoulder and not because it's necessary for everyone to know that they're black. It annoys my DH because he doesn't see the point in it, but white people never do, do they? I guess it's my little way of weeding out the closet racists and avoiding all of the "what are you" questions. Although, I've yet to have anybody like us less after finding out we're black, so I guess it really is just my own personal problem.

This is sort of OT, but have you guys been checking out each other's photos? Are only good-looking people posting on this thread? That's like the mutlicultural children thread. It's quite a shock to look through the pictures and see one gorgeous child after another. Although I guess it's a question of self-selection, or something. Or something.

[USAmma]

In the hospital where my kids were born, they were automatically ID'd as "white." When I asked why the person said that the children are always the same race as the mother, no matter what their appearance. Whatever.

I'll let my dd's choose their own race boxes when they are older. I hate the ones were you *must* choose, like school enrollment forms, and there is no "other" and you can't select more than one.

[Joyster]

Originally Posted by VanessaS

Yeah, that's what I figured you meant. I think the other people didn't really get what you wanted to say as there's a whole history of "passing" in the States. My kids look white, as well, but I always make a point of explaining to people that they're part black (and Asian and Native American) because otherwise people wouldn't know. There really is no way to tell. I can work it into any conversation. But, I guess that's because I have a chip on my shoulder and not because it's necessary for everyone to know that they're black. It annoys my DH because he doesn't see the point in it, but white people never do, do they? I guess it's my little way of weeding out the closet racists and avoiding all of the "what are you" questions. Although, I've yet to have anybody like us less after finding out we're black, so I guess it really is just my own personal problem.

This is sort of OT, but have you guys been checking out each other's photos? Are only good-looking people posting on this thread? That's like the mutlicultural children thread. It's quite a shock to look through the pictures and see one gorgeous child after another. Although I guess it's a question of self-selection, or something. Or something.

I figured you figured what I said. I think I just took for granted, maybe delusions of grandeur that people having read my posts knew that I wasn't about trying to hide my race or being ashamed of it. It's brought me to the reality that no one other than you reads my posts. LOL

For the most part in my own little world, most people don't really seem to care, or if they do ask, it's usually because they're curious, though I have great radar for the "What are you? You couldn't possibly be anywhere EQUAL to ME!!" type questions, in which case, I usually have something cheeky to respond.

If there's one generalization I do like, is that multiracial people are beautiful and smart, and wonderful. *G*

[cappuccinosmom]

Eh. I don't like the "one drop rule" whether it's used to discriminate against or get preferential treatment.

My kids aren't white or black. They have a unique combined heritage and just like a large portion of the global population, there is really no one category they're bound to.

I really don't want my kids to identify themselves by race anyway. There are many more things I would much rather they identify as.

Bunny-trail here...my brother is 100% Korean, but was adopted into my American family. He always wanted to ID as American first, and was annoyed with everybody being divided up and labeled by racial category. When he was in college he missed out on some benefits because he refused to join certain Asian campus organizations and apply for grants/scholarships on the basis of his Asian-ness.

[purplegirl]

I think we have to be careful of generalizations of any kind. Doesn't that just open the door to bias which, I believe, we are fighting against?

[Joyster]

Originally Posted by purplegirl

I think we have to be careful of generalizations of any kind. Doesn't that just open the door to bias which, I believe, we are fighting against?

It was tongue in cheek. Hence the little *G*

[Jannah6]

Let me just say this and then I'm done. I'm not a confrontational person, at all. Few things upset me. Joyster, I posted a response to your original posting and that posting hit a nerve. So, I talked about something that plagues people of color, especially many Blacks in America.

I wasn't saying that's why you dated and married your DH.