Article for Peds re: how to talk to us about vaccines

[runes]

http://www.rescuepost.com/files/pednews-feb09.pdf
(courtesy of Age of Autism)

Let's discuss these wonderful little tidbits of advice, thanks to the American Academy of Pediatrics, written for pediatricians on how to talk to us moms and dads regarding vaccinations.

Are we really prepared to tell Mr. and Mrs. Johnson that we do care about Susan, but we also have an obligation and a responsibility to consider societal benefits and risks in an ever-increasing ripple effect from our office door to the neighborhood, the community, the state, the nation, and the world?

Um, excuse me, doctor, but I hired you to consider the health of MY CHILD, not the neighborhood, community, state, nation and world.

[runes]

If the family has been traumatized by a diagnosis of autism that coincided with timing of the vaccine schedule, discuss the option of a customized vaccine schedule to avoid the peak diagnostic age for autism spectrum disorders.

What?

Why would they suggest this, if it were absolutely, definitively established that vaccines do not cause autism? Creating a customized vaccine schedule would not be science-based, evidence-based practice if it were true that there was no link between vaccines and autism.

[Th1Th2]

Yup, they are obligating us to think outside the box...ooops

[nwmamas]

Wow, that was patronizing. "Their" inevitable logical fallacies might make perfect sense if they haven't studied microbiology, as you, wondrous genius doctor, have, with your great, big, heaving MCAT scores? So sensitivity means explaining things slowly to "them"? Oh my. That's one office from which I'd run screaming. He really missed the point.

Not to mention I was totally unaware that microbiologists were a monolithic unit when it comes to beliefs about all vaccines on the current CDC schedule.

Not to mention the creepy, simpleton cliche he paints of concerned parents as newspaper reading, autism-gawking, church-goers who seem to bear a great resemblance to my grandparents.

[ema-adama]

Vaccination protects individual children, but it's real value lies in mediating risks across populations

ta-da! Clearly put.

[Proverbs31]

Wait, there's an article wrapped around that big ol' Rotateq ad? The AAP sure isn't suble about where their loyalty lays.

[Scattershoot]

Originally Posted by Proverbs31

Wait, there's an article wrapped around that big ol' Rotateq ad? The AAP sure isn't suble about where their loyalty lays.

Amen to that.

This patronizing article is sadly an obvious attempt to not be patronizing, but these people are so use to feeling superior and right that they can't help it. It's pathetic and just one example of why I don't waste my time interacting with these businessmen and women who have products to sell.

There are A LOT OF PEOPLE questioning the logic of vaccines and these people know it. The threats are not working like they once did, so they have moved on to guilt. Now they are going to listen to our ignorance more closely, so they know how to better correct us.

[runes]

Originally Posted by Scattershoot

There are A LOT OF PEOPLE questioning the logic of vaccines and these people know it. The threats are not working like they once did, so they have moved on to guilt. Now they are going to listen to our ignorance more closely, so they know how to better correct us.

Yes, the tide is shifting, and they are looking for ways to "manage" this change in attitude. Just look at the topic of the article. "Behavioral Pediatrics".

Meanwhile, notice that there is no call to scientific researchers to help them state their case. Instead, they are looking for behavioral/psychological methods (guilt, manipulation, giving selective/dumbed down information) to make parents do what they want them to do.

More directly pertinent to the vaccine question is the fact that—in spite of an
abundance of research disputing the connection between vaccines and autism; clear connections between the timing of vaccines and developmental reorganization of the brain; and more inclusive diagnostic standards—we still can’t fully explain to parents or even ourselves why rates of autism are increasing at such a rapid clip.

What an admission! She said there was a CLEAR CONNECTION between the timing of vaccines and the developmental reorganization of the brain!!! If they are seeing this, then WHY are they not looking in to why and how to stop it? Wouldn't the prudent thing to do be to delay vaccines until after this developmental change happens so that vaccines could be exonerated, once and for all? If there is EVIDENCE that there is a temporal association, then why not modify the schedule?

Or would that be dangerous, because then it would be clear that vaccines are causing autism?

It's appalling. Just who do they think they are?

Meanwhile, LOVE the Rotateq ad.

[Scattershoot]

CLEAR CONNECTION between the timing of vaccines and the developmental reorganization

Developmental reorganization? What the heck does that mean? Does it mean they mess up kids' brains, and then the brain has to figure out how to work again? I wonder if they have seen this type of "developmental reorganization" in unvaccinated children?

[PaigeC]

Scattershoot, I love your sig quote. How true.

The only thing I like about AAP's condescending "plan" for us is that they encourage pediatricians NOT to fire us. Imagine that. Treating people regardless of their personal beliefs.

[Deborah]

Originally Posted by Scattershoot

Developmental reorganization? What the heck does that mean? Does it mean they mess up kids' brains, and then the brain has to figure out how to work again? I wonder if they have seen this type of "developmental reorganization" in unvaccinated children?

What unvaccinated children? They have 99 9/10% been kicked out of the pediatrics practices. So, the family practice doctors and the osteopaths might be noticing something about unvaccinated children, but not the pediatricians.

See no evil, hear no evil, speak lots of evil.

[Scattershoot]

Originally Posted by Deborah

What unvaccinated children? They have 99 9/10% been kicked out of the pediatrics practices. So, the family practice doctors and the osteopaths might be noticing something about unvaccinated children, but not the pediatricians.

That's something I hadn't thought of. What a good point. Pediatricians can kick all the unvaxed children out, so they don't have to look at all those healthy kids any more. Then they don't have to deal with the cognitive dissonance of "Hey, these children have never been vaxed, but look at how darn healthy they are. I thought they were supposed to get really sick."

[runes]

Originally Posted by Scattershoot

That's something I hadn't thought of. What a good point. Pediatricians can kick all the unvaxed children out, so they don't have to look at all those healthy kids any more. Then they don't have to deal with the cognitive dissonance of "Hey, these children have never been vaxed, but look at how darn healthy they are. I thought they were supposed to get really sick."

Peds don't make money off of healthy kids.

[Deborah]

Even though they call the vax visits healthy baby visits or something like that. I never did take my daughter to a ped, I don't think there were very many back in the late 60s. And my mother pretty much never took us to doctors. I think I saw two or three health care practitioners in my entire childhood and they were probably all alternative treatment people like chiropractors or naturopaths. We didn't vax of course.

And, as you can all see for yourselves, I've been dead since childhood, because alternative medicine doesn't work and going without vaccines is very dangerous!

[In Exile]

Wow, that's another insideful look into "at least pretend to think you want to give parents a say in a medical decision"- while on the first page she's asking "why don't parents want the best for their children?" She's talking about some "disconnect" and makes clear how disconnecting she is. Please- I don't vax because I DON'T want the best for my child? I obviously I want something "inferior", of course Dr.

The first page is full of insults how parents are to lazy and stupid to read a 35 page brochure- I have read a LOT more than that and I haven't stop since becoming pregnant. Lady, you're insulting me by saying that.

Next line is the "why don't they trust me when I say vaccines are worth the risks so roll up Michaels sleeve"- let me just say WOW. I don't have "automatic trust" for any medical professional who has financial incentives to shoot up as many kids as they can. You might be able to EARN my trust after a while when I can see that you really believe that in the end it is up to me as PARENT to make that decision- NOT YOU pretending that while thinking "I am making the decision". Very wrong. It's that kind of mind set that bugs people who actually put a lot of thought into THEIR parental decisions that they have a right to make. You're very off base when you as Dr. start acting as if I am obligated to even debate or "defend" my refusal to vax my child. That is just trying to enforce the myth that you owe anything to those who want to vax your child-you don't.

When was the last time the author read the latest studies surrounding vaccines? How many seminars (sponsored by Merck and Company of course) did she take yearly to really inform herself on the issue? WOW. By the way she is ignoring all of her peers (because of course only MDs are allowed to have an opinion in that matter) who don't share her opinion- and there are plenty of Docs.

Don't treat me like an idiot just because I am the parent- any Doctor that asks me why I don't want the best for my children certainly won't back me against the wall "defending" why I don't want their poison.
Just keep it up and you will see more and more "stubborn" and "naive" parents saying no, that's one scary thought.

[Ruthla]

Originally Posted by Deborah

And, as you can all see for yourselves, I've been dead since childhood, because alternative medicine doesn't work and going without vaccines is very dangerous!

How cool! I didn't know the Afterworld had internet access!

I think the mainstream medical people would describe you as "lucky" that you didn't succumb to a childhood illness, and that your parents were irresponsible as you could have exposed other, weaker, individuals to measles, etc when you got those illnesses.

Even during the worst plagues, many individuals survived. The fact that there are some unvaxed adults in the world does NOT disprove the whole vaccine mindset.

[In Exile]

Originally Posted by Ruthla

How cool! I didn't know the Afterworld had internet access!

I think the mainstream medical people would describe you as "lucky" that you didn't succumb to a childhood illness, and that your parents were irresponsible as you could have exposed other, weaker, individuals to measles, etc when you got those illnesses.

Even during the worst plagues, many individuals survived. The fact that there are some unvaxed adults in the world does NOT disprove the whole vaccine mindset.

Yes, of course, Deborah is a "free rider" whose parent were feeding of "herd immunity". (Oh wait, they did not have 40 shots back in the day and somehow people stayed alive.

Hm, exactly. How did the plague went away in Europe- without a vaccine? How come we don't have the plague killing us off right now? I am picturing a little scared germ under a stone chivering and saying "can I come out know??? I would like to be eradicated by a vaccine". Yeah, that's it. We are the human superpower and have the power to erradicate tiny germs from the whole surface of the entire globe. Yeah, we are that powerful.

[Deborah]

When I was born, in 1950 (also known as the dark ages), I think the only recommended vaxes were smallpox and DTP. So I wasn't benefitting from a huge amount of herd immunity. Except that most people were immune due to having had this and that and survived.

At some point in my childhood the polio vaccine came in. My parents didn't get it for any of us. I used to think I was vulnerable to polio, until I realized that I must have had it and no one even noticed.

But yeah, I'm either very lucky or else dead, take your choice!

[just_lily]

Wow, that was insulting.

Apparently the big problem is that "people aren't very trusting of anyone in authority anymore."

Do you consider your doctor an authority figure? Never in my life have I thought of doctors that way. Umm, excuse me... you work for ME.

[Deborah]

I see doctors as people with specialized knowledge and skills. When a doctor is courteous, patient, willing to answer questions and okay with letting the patient think things over and do their own research, great! I'm not about to do my own surgery, for example, but I wouldn't be happy with a doctor who tried to bully me into having surgery without allowing me time to figure out if I needed it.

I think pediatricians are a special class of doctors...