Nystatin passing through BM?

[LaurieG]

I went to see a new allergist - an Environmental Med specialist. He has me on oral and vaginal Nystatin tablets (6 and 3 months respectively), a Candida diet, and weekly shots. I started the diet Wednesday.

I'm feeling better already - my energy level is so much better, my stool are nearly normal (sorry for TMI).

DD, on the other hand seems to be going from bad to worse. She's been chronically congested since fall and recently has had red cheeks and peeling dry skin all over her face with spots that are really dry or even mild eczema like. And she's had a couple of new foods fail lately where she had been tolerating pretty much everything but milk and soy with no GI syptoms of other obvious reactions.

So I eliminated wheat / gluten at the same time as I started the candida diet. She's had a few mucousy stools and some reflux - almost like she's reacting to the elimination. Or maybe it's die off (a couple stools have had the die off look)? The Nystatin says it is unknown whether it passes through to BM.

Anyone have any personal experience making them think it either does or doesn't? Or any other thoughts? I've been really careful on my diet so I'm nearly certain we haven't had any soy or milk exposures lately? My other thought is its just the mucous from her sinuses passing through and irritating her GI track.

Edited to add the link to my other thread with pics of her face rash: http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1049282

[lil_miss_understood]

I'd say it's die off- either her own or the toxins from *your* die off passing through to her.
That's just my (totally uneducated) guess though.

[kortner]

Gosh, I would make a guess like Jacqueline too, but I am also totally uneducated. Can you call your HCP?? I would hope they could offer some support on this. In the meantime do you have a safe vitamin c for your baby? Have you tried epsom salt baths? Or adding clay to her baths? Those things could help her clear a reaction (to whatever it is) faster, I think. From your other thread pics I would guess a food reaction, but knowing you're doing this diet change and Nystatin makes me think die-off.

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by kortner

Gosh, I would make a guess like Jacqueline too, but I am also totally uneducated. Can you call your HCP?? I would hope they could offer some support on this. In the meantime do you have a safe vitamin c for your baby? Have you tried epsom salt baths? Or adding clay to her baths? Those things could help her clear a reaction (to whatever it is) faster, I think. From your other thread pics I would guess a food reaction, but knowing you're doing this diet change and Nystatin makes me think die-off.

Okay, yes. I just went and looked at your other thread. This is most likely a reaction rather than a die-off. It is important to remember that food reactions often get *worse* if they're left alone.
First of all, I would do as kortner suggested trying to minimize her reaction. Then, I would consider what, if anything, I had increased in my diet since going off gluten. Are you *certain* that the things you are replacing gluten with do not contain soy in some form? Barley, malt, spelt, oats? Do they contain corn? Are they heavy in eggs (many gluten free products are)? Do they contain nuts? Seeing as the symptoms didn't go completely away with a Top 8 diet, I would also consider less common foods as reactions, such as rice and beans.
Are you keeping a food journal?

And, btw, to my knowledge, Nystatin does pass through BM. It is sometimes given to the mama for treatment of nipple thrush. I was told that it will also treat oral thrush of the infant at the same time.

[LaurieG]

Here is the ingredient list for Nystatin tablets. I wonder whether this may hold the key?

Inactive ingredients: carnauba wax, microcrystalline cellulose, corn starch, anhydrous lactose, magnesium stearate, povidone, sodium starch glycolate, stearic acid, hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, hydroxypropyl cellulose, titanium dioxide, polyethylene glycol, FD&C Red No. 40 Aluminum Lake, FD&C Blue No. 2 Aluminum Lake.

[lil_miss_understood]

Carnauba wax may contain dairy. Anything with "stear" is wheat, I believe.

[LaurieG]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

Carnauba wax may contain dairy. Anything with "stear" is wheat, I believe.

Crap! You would think an allergist who specializes in working with allergic people who haven't had success from traditional allergy treatments would have encountered this before. I'll have to call the manufacturer tomorrow to check...

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by LaurieG

Crap! You would think an allergist who specializes in working with allergic people who haven't had success from traditional allergy treatments would have encountered this before. I'll have to call the manufacturer tomorrow to check...

It's possible he thought that the tiny amount in the carnauba wouldn't effect her through bm.
However! I still say that there's an allergen that you're missing. I would place my bets on it being either rice, corn or eggs.

[WuWei]

What are the "weekly shots"???


Pat

[LaurieG]

Originally Posted by JacquelineR

It's possible he thought that the tiny amount in the carnauba wouldn't effect her through bm.
However! I still say that there's an allergen that you're missing. I would place my bets on it being either rice, corn or eggs.

Well, I'll wait til I've completed my food journal before I go denying it but my initial thought is I really don't think we've added in something that would explain these symptoms, unless she's getting worse all of a sudden. We don't have any new foods this week that we haven't been eating all along with the exception of quinoa for breakfast this am (but she was reacting before that), and rice, corn, and eggs were all frequent foods in my diet before the gluten-free switch. /the frequency hasn't increased that much.

[LaurieG]

Originally Posted by WuWei

What are the "weekly shots"???


Pat

Immunotherapy shots for candida and internal molds (2 types I reacted to on the skin test). I took the 1st shot yesterday morning. She had GI reactions on Friday. So unless we have multiple issues going on the shots can be cleared of any wrong-doing.

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by LaurieG

Crap! You would think an allergist who specializes in working with allergic people who haven't had success from traditional allergy treatments would have encountered this before. I'll have to call the manufacturer tomorrow to check...

Ummm...have you read your other threads about the medical establishment's ability to see the big picture?

Does he know you are nursing? Cause, I'm not keen on heavy candida diets while a mama is nursing. Do you have mercury fillings in your teeth? The candida increases to *protect* us from excess toxins, such as mercury.

When bacteria or yeasts die off, the toxins and their decomposition *increases* the toxins that our liver must process. I'm not sure if you've been following the detox stuff. But, basically, there are three places that you need to focus: digestion, absorption and detoxification. And there are specific variables and nutrients necessary for each part. This explanation about the detox obstacle course helps to explain it (by our own WhoMe, aka Shannon): http://heal-thyself.ning.com/forum/t...bstacle-course

Also read about the "beet test". http://heal-thyself.ning.com/forum/topics/the-beet-test

Killing off the candida, without changing the environment in which it grows is like spraying bug spray but leaving the windows open. The bugs just come back. You need to change the environment to be unattractive and unnecessary for them to grow there. Improving the stomach acid improves *digestion*. Then you don't end up with the "bad bacteria" thriving in the stomach. Then you don't end up with undigested proteins in the gut. Then you don't end up with the "bad bacteria" thriving in the gut.

Did he prescribe any probiotics? To kill off the candida and not replace it with probiotics is just useless, imo.

And unless you focus on the nutrients which help to neutralize and *excrete* the toxins, you are just on a treadmill, and running yourself in circles. Have you read your other threads? It is the same story, different medical specialist.

And the bigger picture is that as your toxin load increases, so does your daughter's. No doubt that she has more reactions.

Not to mention the artificial colors and cr@p in the tablets. All of that has to be processed by the liver. Those are not nutrients, they are chemicals which have no benefit to the body and must be neutralized and the byproducts excreted, through the urine, stool, skin, breastmilk...

I'm sorry, "immunotherapy shots for candida and internal molds", is this a small inoculation with candida and molds? Like allergy shots? Perhaps, I am misunderstanding.

No way in he#, would I do those while nursing. They *cause* an immune response. Your cortisol levels totally impact your child's reactions, also. Your increased histamine response needs to be cleared, and one of the pathways is through your breastmilk. This guy is uninformed about treating a nursing patient, IMNSHO.

You are welcome to forward this note to him.




Pat

[LaurieG]

Originally Posted by WuWei

Ummm...have you read your other threads about the medical establishment's ability to see the big picture?

Does he know you are nursing? Cause, I'm not keen on heavy candida diets while a mama is nursing.

Oh Pat, thanks for your response. I'm processing the rest - I'll get back to you. This guy is *supposed* to be the anti-medical establishment! I went to him because he was recommended to me by an MDC member as being extremely good with allergies in children. DD's food intolerances were my #1 reason for seeing him. He trained with Doris Rapp. He seemed to have the ideal resume.


I am so completely frustrated and deflated!@!!!!! I do not have time to learn everything there is to know on this subject myself and develop a treatment plan on my own. I NEED FREAKING HELP - THAT I CAN TRUST!. Why can you pay someone to do every other thing there is in the world but not to help me figure out my and dd's allergies???

[lil_miss_understood]

[WuWei]

You can figure it out. You are figuring it out. No one *can* do it for you. Who has the sig line 'Life is not something to be taught, it is a journey to discover', or something like that. That just is life. We all have to figure out our own path. We each help each other along the path. The information you have *gained* from visiting him is part of that path, your learning is enormous. None of it is useless or unimportant.

We are all learning all the time. I, personally, *would* share your insights with him. It is part of his journey and path to learning also. And he will be *more* able to help other mamas, and you, with increased awareness. He couldn't know what he didn't know. None of us can. He is a person. He knows what he has been taught. Plus, he is on a journey of discovery. We all are.


It will be ok.


Pat

[tanyalynn]

Laurie, I've had the same second-guesses, the difference is that I didn't ask real-time, I've just slowly, over time, realized that there are different ways to do these things, and maybe there were other things I could've done to feel better, to protect my son more from the toxins he was getting from my milk, ways to nourish us better, maybe I could've/should've nursed him longer, just everything. I differ from Pat a bit, but more in emphasis than real substance, because I found a HCP who I love, I truly respect her knowledge, and I really appreciate her, and I would not, without a doubt, have learned what was going on with me so that I actually got well. I could've gone to 20 HCPs who all probably could've helped some, but probably none would've said hey, you have a mercury problem and btw so do your kids and who could've gotten me through this process of amalgam removal and chelation as easily as it's been. But I can also recognize that she doesn't know everything--I still recommend her to people, I strongly recommend her, but I'm adding in more on my own and trying to learn what we need.

Don't feel bad about the steps you're taking, but yes, talk to your HCP and tell him you are seeing X, and you want help with it, and I'd share with him that I was concerned about higher circulating toxins getting into your milk and going to kiddo. Don't regret the work you're putting in, and don't let second-guessing stop you from making forward progress.

[tanyalynn]

And not to be flip with the situation, because I'm really not, but one of the reasons I've accepted the things I've done that haven't been a good idea (my own ideas), or haven't been the best way (possibly some of my HCP's ideas) is that I can fix what I did wrong. I could stress about the toxins that I am sure I transferred to my son by a few things I did (those were my ideas), but I'm going to get those toxins out of him. And I was trying to be more functional. I don't mean sacrifice the kid for mom, I'm not saying that, but I _needed_ to get better, my kids depend on me, and it was more important to work on things to make myself better than let myself do nothing and continue to feel bad. And I will fix the things I can with the kids--we're in this for the long haul.

[tanyalynn]

Something just occurred to me. With the recent discussions on getting detox pathways open and IgG intolerances should go away, I decided to let my son have some chocolate. I know, not a serious intolerance, but I wanted to try it, for convenience, and to see if he'd still react. Let him have some this morning (not a huge amount) and this afternoon he's got red dots around his mouth (which was his chocolate reaction back when I figured out chocolate). Interesting thing, though is that he had as much or more in spring 08, and his reaction then was much, much less and slower too. But, maybe it makes sense--my HCP and I think the kids' livers are naturally mobilizing a lot of toxins, because our stress level has gone down so much (starting in the fall, actually, but it's still going on). So their circulating toxins have gone way up, and I'm really not having luck bringing them down--they start to come down a bit, then they go back up. So in retrospect, maybe it's not a good time to introduce our intolerant foods. So maybe that's related to why the new foods are failing right now, when you've been used to most foods succeeding. Mtn.mama has had good results with a crystal and figuring out whether foods are stressful or not on an ongoing basis, and I think I need to get around to trying that. If toxic load is part of the picture, I've wondered if foods are healthful or stressful on a more dynamic basis than I had previously assumed.

Duh--maybe this is why soy seems bad all of a sudden. I mean, yes, a couple weekends ago we ate a lot more than usual (travelled, soy sauce in a stew for multiple meals on a few days in a row), but maybe this is part of it. I can add one and one, really.

[LaurieG]

Ok, my freak out if over. Thanks for the support everyone!

Pat, you are right. It's a journey and I keep learning more every day. But it is so frustrating when I know only part of the information and I act on that and end up causing more harm than good (like the day I drank a whole bottle of Kombucha ). I wish I had the time to learn it all ASAP, but I just don't. I have too many other things going on beyond the food intolerances.

Anyhow, I believe I am doing a lot of "right" things too, and I also think this allergist's approach is in line pretty well with what we all talk about here.

Tanya, your post about you needing to get well so you could help your kids really spoke to me. If I felt better I could do so much more for all my kids. So to a pretty major extent that needs to be my priority. Not, hopefully, at the expense of any of my kids. But you are right that some of these things can be addressed later.

I think you are on to something with the dynamic nature of these intolerances. I have noticed with Ellie that she seems to react more or less to her known triggers at different times. There was a period that I could put a splash of cream in my coffee without causing a reaction. Now a splash of coffee would probably result in 2 days of reflux, soft stools, increased congestion, and a touch of eczema. Maybe you are right that it has to do with the other toxins circulating in her system.

[LaurieG]

I don't know where to put this thought so I'm sticking it here. I'm so far behind on the detox threads I would be coming from left field I'm afraid.

I wonder if there is some sort of normal development that occurs in children between 12 and 24 months that opens up these pathways and explains why the medical community believes these protein intolerances go away around that age? Or is it just that the GI reactions stop and so the docs are calling these kids "cured" when really they are still IgG sensitive?