PA Homeschoolers! Legislation reform - Page 2

[serenbat]

Creating the portfolio is a lot of work and hugely stressful for me.

I think this can be made less stressful, doing it as you go along thru out the year. I use to do the portfolio in the beginning and later my child took this role over, it make a hugh difference when they can do this for later years. It is great and needed in some cases for college. It is a nice record to look back on for each year. My evaluator take the portfolio home and picks out certain items to copy and those are turned in at the end of the year.

[annettemarie]

I think the backfire argument is one that is often used to keep people "in their place". Don't rock the boat and do what you're told, or people might notice you exist. It's not really an effective agent for change, IMO.

Serenbat, you seem very happy with the status quo. I'm glad it's working out for you and I hope it continues to do so.

[serenbat]

I see real issues that would really would cut school costs/property taxes and I would rather that the state legislators worked on those issues first.

I would love to see a state wide mandatory curriculum, such as other states have, this would be a true cost reduction in education costs and a benefit to parents and children that relocate within the state.

With any education issue in PA, be it HS or not, money sees the real factor. I have yet to see a district cut administration cost, they by far cut arts programs and teachers first. Administrators seem very unlike to bend and give up any power. I just fail to see this as bill that has traction.

[mamajake]

Originally Posted by serenbat

I DO NOT want to see rules change that may make things harder and taking away the districts role, I really feel, could cause far more complicated problems. I really don't see this bill passing, I feel there is too strong opposition to it, it's a "cash-cow" for the districts, they certainly don't mind paying to "over-see" HSers and I can't see public support for it.

Specifically, how could this be made harder? SDs don't create legislation. Unquestionably the teachers lobby is powerful and will oppose it. But at some point (and I am not going to simply not try because we may not have come to that point) legislators will value the votes of HSers over the teachers or will trade this issue off with another for the teachers.

I have yet to hear a suggestion as to how the law could be made worse by proposing a redundant element be eliminated. Really, how? Body cavity searches along with the portfolio?

Nebulous "it could be worse" arguments simply create a climate of fear.

[annettemarie]

Originally Posted by serenbat

I would love to see a state wide mandatory curriculum, such as other states have, this would be a true cost reduction in education costs and a benefit to parents and children that relocate within the state.

You want a mandatory statewide curriculum for whom? For homeschoolers?

[paquerette]

And what about us unschoolers?

[caro113]

Originally Posted by serenbat

To many HSers are the same as NON-vacers, some think they are parasites.

Oh great .. two for two .. although I do see your point. I get the strangest responses when people find out plan to homeschool. They always bring up school when vaxes come up. "Oh well how are you going to enroll her in school if she's not vaccinated?" .. "well, the school can not require me to vaccinate her and they can not deny her entry into school just because she's vaccinated. But we're homeschooling anyway" .. I hate how we're considered crazy and insane for not vaxing and for home/unschooling.

And what about us unschoolers?

That's exactly what I was thinking, since I plan to unschool, but I figured it would be easier to just say I homeschool. That's what we tell our family, that we plan to homeschool. The battle with not vaxing and co-sleeping and cloth diapering and homebirthing .. it was just too exhausting, and another argument about unschooling is just not needed, at least not right now. Luckily, I know several people who either were homeschooled or are homeschooling now, due to several different reasons. So at least we have support there if we ever need anything.

[mamajake]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

You want a mandatory statewide curriculum for whom? For homeschoolers?

um ... yeah. I am a little bewildered by this point.

[serenbat]

You want a mandatory statewide curriculum for whom? For homeschoolers?

It happens to be in place in several states (NJ & NY for example) and it is for PUBLIC school students, NOT HSers. It would reduce costs if every district use the same materials at the same grade. If you moved from Philly to Scranton the child would be learning the same subjects in the same grades. I know some in NJ that loves this. It would be a "dream" to see education taken out of the local district hands, wouldn't it be nice if every student, statewide was given the same money and the same education?? This would reduce property/school taxes far more than the HB1273.

Several years ago there was "talk" about removing HSing from local districts control and making a state wide overseer, but that did not go over either.

Specifically, how could this be made harder?

They (the school districts) could dictate WHO does the evaluation or they could say it must be done in-school. This real threat has been talked about among some evaluators.

But at some point (and I am not going to simply not try because we may not have come to that point) legislators will value the votes of HSers over the teachers or will trade this issue off with another for the teachers.

(I bolded)

I can't see this, at least not even in ten years time---majority rules, for the most part. HS numbers don't even come close to the public school population.

And what about us unschoolers?

The way it is now, you would by law, need to file just as any HSer is required to do so.
Fact is many don't.
Many people DO get around dealing with local schools, they move and just simply don't say a word. Never in the system, the school really doesn't know you are there. I know two people that do not deal with the school district at all, one moved to the area and just didn't file and another had their child in a private school and pulled the child out, didn't say a word. One has been doing so for years. The local district doesn't know a thing. With the exception of mostly Catholic schools that use local busses, the school district has no clue who these "other" children are.

[annettemarie]

Maybe you could start another thread asking people to support mandatory statewide curriculum in public schools then? I was really confused at it being brought up in a homeschool law reform thread, and I think other people were as well.

They (the school districts) could dictate WHO does the evaluation or they could say it must be done in-school. This real threat has been talked about among some evaluators.

They can't actually, because that would be against the law. As long as the evaluator meets the legal requirements, the school district has to accept it. The only exception would be that a school district could refuse to consent to an evaluator appealing under this part of the law:

at the request of the supervisor, persons with other qualifications may conduct the evaluation with the prior consent of the district of residence superintendent.

I'm sure mamajake will correct me if I'm wrong, but a school district can't add on to existing homeschool law.

There is always going to be some tension between homeschoolers and their local school districts. While there may be rare exceptions to the rules, that's just the way it is (sort of like with mothers-in-law, although again, there are rare exceptions to the rule, LOL!). Another reason I like this reform is that it takes a little of that power struggle away. All you're turning in is a letter. There's no chance for school districts to overreach and presume to tell homeschoolers what they should be working on or how they should teach, which is outside the scope of what the law says that can do.

[mamajake]

Originally Posted by serenbat

They (the school districts) could dictate WHO does the evaluation or they could say it must be done in-school. This real threat has been talked about among some evaluators.

That risk is unchanged by the current legislation. Changing the existing law as to evaluators requires drafting and introduction of such legislation. This bill doesn't have an impact on the role of evaluators so even an amendment in committee has little/no chance of reaching that far.

Originally Posted by serenbat

I can't see this, at least not even in ten years time---majority rules, for the most part. HS numbers don't even come close to the public school population.

The opposing force is not the public school population - most of whom have no strong opinions about homeschoolers. The opposing force is teachers. And since these are not issues put to popular vote, numerical majority is irrelevant.

[serenbat]

Maybe you could start another thread asking people to support mandatory statewide curriculum in public schools then? I was really confused at it being brought up in a homeschool law reform thread, and I think other people were as well.

I stated as I did this to compare savings cost. As so many have stated HB1273 is about saving money- could someone supply some figures? How much is this costing your districts? I can't find any numbers of this. The teachers that I have spoken to, that are also evaluators, tell me this really is a non issue, cost wise too. Perhaps it really effects only certain districts? I spoke to my local congressman's office and he is not supporting this because he doesn't see this an issue.

They can't actually, because that would be against the law. As long as the evaluator meets the legal requirements, the school district has to accept it.

as with any thing, that can always be changed, I don't think is is out of the realm of thought

[mamajake]

Originally Posted by serenbat

I stated as I did this to compare savings cost. As so many have stated HB1273 is about saving money- could someone supply some figures? How much is this costing your districts? I can't find any numbers of this. The teachers that I have spoken to, that are also evaluators, tell me this really is a non issue, cost wise too. Perhaps it really effects only certain districts? I spoke to my local congressman's office and he is not supporting this because he doesn't see this an issue.

If your district is not reviewing portfolios, it isn't costing them any money and a local congressperson would not have an issue. Tautology there, I think.

I doubt SDs make the cost information publicly available, even if they take the time to calculate it.

Personally, I doubt the cost savings argument is a strong one since HSers are such a huge cost savings overall for SDs.

Originally Posted by serenbat

as with any thing, that can always be changed, I don't think is is out of the realm of thought

Regardless of whether the current bill is pending. So?