Questions for you about vaccines, doctors, and meds :)

[zipper]

first- I'm new at this so please be gentle
I have a little girl- almost 4 months- and live in the middle of nowhere- it's relevant because living here I don't really have any doc choices- my midwife drove 3 hours for me. We see the only ped. in the area- mostly because I'm not so fond of my own general family doc- he's only slightly more useful than a basic internet search.

on our first visit they were mean about vaxs (among other things apparently my midwife wasn't qualified to do my 4 day old visit and cloth diapers aren’t approved of- so I picked another doc same practice- 2 months visit they spent an hour yelling about it- basically you are going to be responsible for killing your daughter and made me sign the form- which I did- I'm not ashamed of my choices about vax- I feel that I'm an educated responsible attentive parent. It is my job to make educated choices for my daughter and myself- and I just want to have my choices respected. I don't care if they disagree- but don't treat me like an idiot- it would be careless for me to vax blindly without research- it is not careless for me to make a conscious objection and accept full responsibility for it. After all- they're not going to accept full responsibility for any side effects- they're not going to be able to give me back the baby I gave them if they make a mistake. (though it's not entirely relevant I object to vaxs because I've got a family history of autism and personally have both lichen sclerosus and vulvydynia- neither illness has a clear how you get it and how you fix it- so I'd rather be cautious and safe rather than sorry- I see my 18 year old sister and just could not live with myself if I did that to my baby and could have prevented it)

This past month my daughter got her first cold- daddy brought it home - and as an educated observant parent when I noticed that she was having some chest congestion that concerned me a bit I called, spoke to a nurse, watched her carefully, called again when things got worse rather than improving, made an appt. for her and told the front desk person on the phone as I had been instructed to- that my daughter had not be vaxed and though I honestly doubted that she had whooping cough- she could have it We were told to drive to the back of the office and wait to be let in (this drove my husband crazy but honestly I understood their position and wasn't offended. What bothered me was my visit with the doc that followed- she ignored me entirely- called my headbowed daughter even after being corrected a boy- how am I suppose to believe she had any idea what's going on if she can't remember the sex of my child, berated me for not vaxing, even accused me of not telling her my daughter wasn't vaxed- hmmmm I believe I informed everyone, entered from the back, and I know it's all over her file, and then she prescribed my daughter meds w/o informing me at all about what she was giving my daughter and why. The pharm people are like the side effects are....shaking, convulsions, twitches... and I'm like excuse me- why wasn't this gone over-do I have other options for treatment? and not only that the pharm actually had to call it in to the doctors again because she had miswritten the dosage- and apparently the doc has a rep for doing that there- awesome right

sooo... her four month visit is coming up and I'm not sure I want to go back- I'm not sure I want another hour of you're going to kill your daughter. But I don't have any other doc options- do I just ignore it? I'd enjoy a partnership of respect- I'd like real information from a medical perspective- I want my daughter to be healthy- how do I go about getting a partnership- other than showing up perfectly presentable with a clean cared for child? I'm tired of being treated like an idiot- but I'm not sure I have any options here. Advice on how to handle her?

[tmaue]

I have decided against well baby visits for our 3rd child. If something serious comes up, we will either go to a prompt care or the hospital, depending on how severe it is. I would be totally crushed if someone treated me in the manner you have described and definetly wouldn't be going back.

I have spent the last several years learning about how to take care of a sick child without using meds and this has helped me gain more confidence in my ability to take care of my sick kids. I would suggest, if you have not already, read up on fevers, coughs, rashes, etc. and learn how to allow the body to heal itself. You will be less likely to end up with complications which would require a doctor visit.

It sounds like you are letting your motherly instincts drive you, so I think you and your daughter will get through this just fine, just keep standing up for yourself.

[Scattershoot]

We were told to drive to the back of the office and wait to be let in

Next we'll have separate water fountains and have to sit at the back of the bus. Maybe we'll get separate, but equal, schools.

No offense, but they are treating you like crap. I avoid people like that. I have two children and no "well baby visits" ever. I don't see the point.

My children get the occasional fever or cold, but it's short lived. I'm pretty sure my daughter had rubella, but to me it was a rash and fussiness that went away. We don't eat all that well.

Anyhow, what are your beliefs on health? I know you said you live in the boonies, so options are limited, but are there any alternative practitioners?

I figure I am my children's doctor for almost everything. If anything severe happened, I'd go to the ER, but people go to the ER for just about anything nowadays, including a fever.

I just don't see the point of pediatricians. Seriously. You're dealing with someone who sees the world very differently than you on certain health choices. It would be like asking a plumber to come over and fix something and then telling the plumber you don't agree with what he does. The plumber would get annoyed.

Baby doctor's vaccinate. That's what they do. Challenging that, challenges their identity.

If you believe in pharmaceuticals, maybe you could find a D.O. or a family doc who is not so hung up on vaccination.

Good luck.

[Scattershoot]

double post

[Th1Th2]

Vaccines, drugs and doctors are not healthy choices for healthy babies. Every pediatric visit is a gateway for more drugs and vaccines which subsequently leads to induced complications and diseases requiring more frequent check-ups and treatment. This vicious cycle is so designed by doctors for "sustainability" of patients towards becoming more sick that makes me think pediatric practice should have been abolished long time ago. Babies need to be sustained and gratified physiologically, that is, with breast milk, fresh air, rest and sleep etc. Like the old but wise saying goes: "An apple a day keeps the doctor away".

[ammiga]

We did the well-baby visits for dd's first year. It was fine, but pretty pointless. We have a pedi that is respectful of our choices, even though he disagrees with them, so it wasn't bad. To be honest, there was very little reason to go to the visits, and we won't do them all with our next child, unless we suspect a problem.

We found the book "How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of your Doctor" to be extremely helpful. If you want to avoid your pedi as much as possible (and have a healthier kid!), I highly recommend ordering it.

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by Scattershoot

Next we'll have separate water fountains and have to sit at the back of the bus. Maybe we'll get separate, but equal, schools.

No offense, but they are treating you like crap. I avoid people like that. I have two children and no "well baby visits" ever. I don't see the point.

Considering the OP told the nurse that her child had a slight chance of having whooping cough I believe that they were just being cautious in asking that they not enter through the regular waiting room - that's hardly the same as segregation. Our ped has a sick kids entrance for this reason.

[mommyofemma]

I hate they are treating you this way. I took my DD for her first couple of well baby check ups and the dr. did not pressure me about vaccines, she said she could totally understand why parent's have reasons to be concerned. I didn't take her to any well baby check ups after she was 5 months because I honestly didn't see the point. She seemed to be perfectly healthy.I did take her to her 1 yr. well baby check up (well she was almost 14 months) but we went to a NP this time. She also did not force her beliefs about vaccines on me, she just asked me what was my opinions on them. She told me to bring her back when she is 2 for a check up. I just didn't see the point in going every couple of months, risking her being around sick people, when there was no need for her to even be at the doctors! I feel like well baby checks up are basically for immunizations anyways and since we were not participaing in that,why go?I have never had to take my DD to the dr. for being sick. I always try to take care of her health needs here at home, which she is really never sick.I do brest feed her, so I know that helps keep her immune system up. I don't know if you are breast feeding are not, but if I was you I would possibily stop the well baby check ups, unless you feel there is a reason you need to continue taking your child.I know someone previously suggested that you need to do some research on ways to take care of your child's health at home and I think that is a good idea. I personally don't like antibiotics,I feel as though they actually weaken your immune system, so I try to find other ways to healing any problems my DD may face. I know your options are limited when it comes to drs. in your area. I do not have a dr. in my area that I trust so I drive 30 minutes out of my way just for the yearly check ups. 30 minutes isn't too bad. Do you have any other options if you drove a little farther?

[zipper]

thank you for all your answers
entering from the back door wasn't very desirable- but.... I brought my daughter in because I wanted to be responsible. I knew she didn't have a "seal" cough- but I didn't want to be wrong and give all the other babies at gymboree whooping cough. I'm not a trained doc- so I just wanted someone trained to listen to her breathing. I'm upset that I wasn't treated like a responsible parent- but a neglectful idiot. I'm outraged that I was given meds without more information- she was given a scrip for steroids (albuterol) and a nebulizer.... I gave meds to her but I just couldn't keep doing it with the list of side effects- it didn't make her better just less uncomfortable. I'd rather she had boogers than twitch. I'm just so confused. I want to take good care of my daughter- but I need straight answers and info. How can I respect and trust her decision to give my daughter twitchy steroids when she treats me so badly? I don't want to fight with her- but I feel like it's pointless to see her when she doesn't offer other options- things have more than one answer. She wants me to use desitin- I want to use cloth diapers and my daughter doesn't have a rash.... tell me more why do I need cream what else can I use... We don't have options as for as a diff doc- the family practice in our area has a very germy waiting room and her doc would be the one who basically offered me a c section and nothing else. I think most cases you don't need to see a doctor-but I'm unclear on how to catch delays that would signal things like autism without wellbabies... is there any value to a wellbaby? I don't reject medicine and science- I just don't accept it blindly. Why is being informed bad?

[mommyofemma]

Why is she so against cloth diapers?

[PaigeC]

I'm probably being naively idealistic but you said in your post "I'd enjoy a partnership of respect- I'd like real information from a medical perspective- I want my daughter to be healthy"

I wonder if you said that to the doctor? Also, if your reason is religious (or even if it isn't) maybe she would back off if you stated that. I want to do well baby visits because I feel more comfortable with that so I understand your desire to make this work.

I just wonder if saying something like "we are not vaxing and it is not negotiable (stops arguing) but I value your medical perspective (ego stroking) and would like to have a respectful partnership." would work? Maybe even scheduling a consultation appt for that purpose?

Of course, if you can find any other doctors I'd do that first. I'm driving an hour to our pediatrician because he is respectful of our choices. Do you have any options? You could ask in finding your tribe.

Good luck and stick to your guns mama!

[Sweetmilo]

try writing a letter. She won't be able to interrupt you, and as long as she reads it you can be sure she "hears" you yk?

[mamakay]

I'd start taking the baby to the family doc. This pedi sounds far worse than an internet search.

And...steroids for what's probably an infection of some sort? Huh? Steroids work by suppressing the immune system. That's the sort of silly treatment a family doc would never prescribe. And even a "apparently clueless" family doc is better than no doc, IMO.

I do think well baby checks in the first 6 months or year are useful, just because there are some things (like heart palpatations) a doc might catch that mom wouldn't. They're not necessary, but they're not totally useless all of the time, either. (If your kid is perfectly healthy, they're useless...but you never know without retrospect.)

As far as developmental delays go, pedis aren't good at recognising those, either. I suggest familiarizing yourself with the expected milestones and keeping an eye on development yourself.

If you really don't like your doc...how far away are the nearest "other practices"? We drive about an hour to see our family doc, and it's totally worth it to us. No, well baby visits aren't totally necessary, but over the year, a doc you're comfortable with will be a HUGE anxiety-sparer. There are going to be times when you want a doc's opinion, and getting berated over vaxes will continue to cause you all a lot of stress.

[Scattershoot]

Every pediatric visit is a gateway for more drugs and vaccines which subsequently leads to induced complications and diseases requiring more frequent check-ups and treatment.

I was working out in the gym one day and this elderly man was working out. He looked great. He had that sparkle in his eye and moved around like a 20 year old. I'm the curious sort, so I walked over to the gentleman and said, "You look great. How do you do it?" He smiled and said, "Stay out of the doctor's office."

but I'm unclear on how to catch delays that would signal things like autism without wellbabies... is there any value to a wellbaby?

Heaven forbid, but if your child had autism you wouldn't need a well-baby visit to tell you that. Remember that doctors are trained to look for problems. They are also trained to prescribe pharmaceuticals and surgeries that can have very serious side effects. Little things can become big things very quickly as a result. How many of those measles and smallpox deaths that we hear about from the olden days were the result of antimony, mercury, bloodletting, confinement without fresh air, lack of water, several sick people to a bed, doctors not knowing to wash their hands, and fear?

It's an empowering thing to take control of your child's health.

[Scattershoot]

Considering the OP told the nurse that her child had a slight chance of having whooping cough I believe that they were just being cautious in asking that they not enter through the regular waiting room - that's hardly the same as segregation

A lot of these people would love to segregate us disease spreaders/non-vaxers.

[Ruthla]

You mentioned that you DO have access to a family practice doctor who presumably is willing to see babies? Even if he's "only slightly better than an internet search" he's still a real human being who can set broken bones, diagnose rashes (something nearly impossible to do without actually seeing it), listen to coughs, and write prescriptions if needed.

Family practice docs tend to be less persuasive about vaccines (of course, there's no telling what this particular doctor is going to be like) and I don't see how he could possibly be any worse than the ped practice.

[TCMoulton]

Originally Posted by Scattershoot

A lot of these people would love to segregate us disease spreaders/non-vaxers.

If they had told her to bring her completely healthy child who was there for a well visit in through the back door then I would agree that they were purposely segregating her from the rest of the practice but they were trying to prevent possible transmission of a communicable disease from healthy kids.

[Ophelia]

Originally Posted by zipper

thank you for all your answers
entering from the back door wasn't very desirable- but.... I brought my daughter in because I wanted to be responsible. I knew she didn't have a "seal" cough- but I didn't want to be wrong and give all the other babies at gymboree whooping cough.

Just a note that I think you are getting whooping cough mixed up with croup, which is easy to do.
Croup is the cough that has the distinctive 'seal' bark. Or maybe you already know that and I'm just reading your sentence wrong!

As others have said, you are definitely getting harrassed by the doctor and I would personally not go back there. I know you said your choices in your area are limited, I would keep checking around and check with your local tribe or local API or LLL group for doc references.

[swissmom]

This is what I did: we went to the well-baby visits at 2, 6 and 12 months. DS is my first child, and I needed this first year to built my confidence in the intelligence of nature and trust my instincts. It might also be good to have a "track-record" of at least some of these standard visits - there are many groups that consider non-vaxing child neglect and you never know what CPS is going to ask from you one day. I also found that during the first year, you can get away with non-vaxing more easily- claiming that you just consider to delay until the second or third year.

[aniT]

I haven't done well baby visits for my youngest two children. I did take DD3 in for a 12 week visit to a family doctor who said.. well if you are not vaxing just making an appointment when you need us. This to me says (what I always suspected) the only reason for well baby visits is to vax. If you aren't vaxing there is no reason to be there.

steroids (albuterol) and a nebulizer

What is the deal with them giving everyone and their brother asthma meds these days? Half the people I know who got sick with the usual winter cough came home with inhalers this year! And to give that to a four month old. What are they thinking!!!

DH who does have asthma but it went away when he became a vegetarian wouldn't even tell the doctors he was having trouble breathing when he was in the hospital last summer (for what they say was pancreatis) cause he knew they would just give him an inhaler. The problem went away a few days after coming home.