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Support and intent - Page 3

post #41 of 46
Romana...you make sense to me, I felt your post was really good!
post #42 of 46
Averysmomma - your post on page 2 was fantastic! I think everyone should read it again.
post #43 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by AverysMomma View Post
You know...it's tough to know what to do sometimes.

A mama who was perfectly educated, confident and connected to her momma bear intution going into a UC can end up hitting that place where you sort of think "okay, can I do this?" and come here saying "I'm tired, it's been so long and I'm feeling like I can't do this, what if soemthings wrong??" - someone who maybe is feeling shaky with the UC process might say "If you feel like something is wrong call 911, it's time to get you in to the hospital" and that can feed the birthing mammas sense that she can't do it...where as the same birthing goddess mamma who comes and posts that plea for voices could instead read a post from a mama which reads: "You CAN do this, I know it feels like it's been such a long time, but you know when you get to feeeling that way that it means you are close, you are a birthing queen and you can do this" - and maybe that's what she needed to hear to help her get over that hump...you know?

I know that about a half hour from the end of my labor with Avery...I hit that place. I looked up into my husbands eyes and with every ounce of me I screamed with my eyes "I can't do this. I can't do this" and his eyes said lovingly back to me: "You are my queen, I love you and you are doing so great" and I was instantly catapulted back to that place of "I've got this, I'm so close...ooooopppppeeeeeennn!!!" - and like I said, half hour later, I was holding a baby.

It had been 31.5 hours since my water broke, I was tired, I was worn down....what if I had posted here and someone had said "Look, I had a friend who had a long labor (not that 31 hours is so long) and her baby died, so, maybe you should go to a hospital!" - what would that have done to my ability to be bounced back to that positive place? Right now, not in labor, I can tell you that I would kindly ignore that persons well meaning advice....but if I were in labor, if I were that tired and worn down...maybe it would chip away at whatever reserves of "I can do this" I had left, you know?

I think what it comes down to is that advice should be dealt more carefully than support. Support is that building back up, that reminder that "you've got this, your body know how to do this"....advice is "Okay, you think your baby is breech...here is some information on breech delivery. If you think you don't want to deliver breech alone, maybe you should call a MW or transfer, many women do it just fine though...you are a birthing goddess no matter what you choose!" - A person coming here for support, needs support....but someone looking for advice, is REALLY looking for information...so, if you don't have information, and you don't have anything supposrtive to say in lieu of informaiton...maybe you should just walk away.

This about it: Someone comes with that same scenario "I think my baby is breech" and you say "Oh my gosh, honey maybe you ahouls transfer, I knew someone whose baby died because she tried to deliver her breech alone" - that is such bullsh*t! Because it is just as poisonous as if you were to say "Oh, breech is easy, just do it!" - those are both ridiculous things to say. The thing that most UC mamas here would say is what I posted above: "Okay, you think your baby is breech...here is some information on breech delivery. If you think you don't want to deliver breech alone, maybe you should call a MW or transfer, many women do it just fine though...you are a birthing goddess no matter what you choose!" See?

So, one can be as smug as she wants in saying "well, I'm just giving realistic advice because I don't want a little baby's blood on my hands" - but that is not fair. Because that mama who decided to UC, knewthat there are variations of normal if she did ANY research before her birth and she doesn't need to hear your stupid story about how babies die all the time being born breech or whatever other nonsense...I think if someone finds themselves posting something that sounds negative for the fact that they want to "cover their behind" by throwing out that worst case scenario...they should just not post.

I agree that supportive encouragement should be given wisely....but I also think that nine times our of ten, the UCer who is coming on here for informatio or support, is NOT going to be basing 100% of her decisions on the opinon of people on the forum...because that just flies completely in the face of everything that UC means. I don't know tat this is something a non-UCaccepting mamma can fully grasp and maybe she should think about that before she posts advice here to a woman in labor. If you aren't comfortable with UC, you're not going to be able to give very constructive advice to a UC mamma because YOU would be more confortable were she in a hospital or with a MW. Soo, I'm not trying to say "Uc only club" - but it's not fair for you to come and pee on someones parade who CAN DO IT, who is just coming to be reminded that she is in the company (if only in spirit) of other mammas who have been there and who are rooting for her.

When I UC my next baby.....if I come to a place where I need information, I will call my midwife for advice....and I will post here for support and information. If, when I UC, I have a long tedious labor and come ehre worn down and needing that boost from you mammas and someone sticks their head onto my head to "remind me" that "babies can die when being born at home and that if I'm tired maybe I should transfer...." I can't promise that in my volitile state I won't chew your head off for being a discouraging busy body in "well meaning" clothing.

PS: When I say "you" I am not talking about anyone here AT ALL! I'm just meaning the "general you"....I think this conversation is important, because I think that mammas who are not comofrtable with UC need to respect that some women are, and some women are een comfortable with UC NO MATTER WHAT...and that is their choice and it should be respected. I'm not saying tell a mama what you think she wants to hear, but there is an extreme and very important difference between giving you realiztic, constructive and supportive advice BASED UPON your desire to UC...and someone harassing you because secretly they think that your UCing is dangerous and stupid. Please, if a lady wants that kind of harassment, she'll just transfer already!!

:::

Nothing but love for all my mamas!!
post #44 of 46
as a poster in a couple of different webgroups for UC (as a UC mama and supporter), I have seen this issue come up again and again. And here is my experience with laboring UC moms who come online for support--there seem to be 2 types of threads that generate:

1. UC mama posts to joyfully state that she is in labor, and as for our prayers/positive thoughts. May at some point ask for 'minor advice'--comfort measures, for instance, or 'remind me about how I can best protect myself/baby with water broken past 24hrs'. Most respondents basically just say "you go mama" or may provide that minor advice asked for. These threads are generally 2pages or less, including her announcement of birth (unless she starts a new, birth announcement thread).

2. UC mama posts to say she's in labor, may start by only asking for p/pt from us but at some point she encounters difficulties of a sort that prompt her to seek more advice. In almost every case I've ever seen (if not all), this starts with lo-o-o-o-ong labor or at least a long time from water breaking. These threads are most always 3 or more pages long, and as time goes on the tenor gets worse--and by 'worse' I mean that more and more people start giving more and more 'agressive' advice. By 'agressive' I mean mainly more insistent, more repetitive (whether it's 'trust yourself' or 'go to hospital NOW' type of advice). In addition, the respondents so often start to bicker with each other about the mama's best course of action (essentially bickering, even if tones are civil).

The first type of thread I find so sweet and inspiring; whether or not I post, I breathe p/pt toward the mama and smile. The second type I just hate! To me, the development of such threads is totally antithetical to the spirit of UC--and even to the safety of UC.

The more we say to a UC mama, NO MATTER WHAT WE SAY, the more we are encouraging her attention to move outward from her own experience, her own gut/intuition, and toward 'external direction'. Sure, she can ignore us....or those of us she doesn't like hearing from....but as we know, pregnant and especially laboring women are so very sensitive and vulnerable to input. IMO, one of the major strengths of UC--making it safest for mom and baby--lies in the fact that the mama/her partner are in charge, are doing it and deciding it all for themselves. Are forced to rely upon their OWN internal resources, their knowledge, the limits of their own endurance and trust.

Anyway, JMO. To me, the #2 type of support thread is well, just wrong on so many levels. The more a mama looks for advice adn support, the more we should be saying--this is on you mama--you need to turn inward and make your own choices.
post #45 of 46
Quote:
The more we say to a UC mama, NO MATTER WHAT WE SAY, the more we are encouraging her attention to move outward from her own experience, her own gut/intuition, and toward 'external direction'. Sure, she can ignore us....or those of us she doesn't like hearing from....but as we know, pregnant and especially laboring women are so very sensitive and vulnerable to input. IMO, one of the major strengths of UC--making it safest for mom and baby--lies in the fact that the mama/her partner are in charge, are doing it and deciding it all for themselves. Are forced to rely upon their OWN internal resources, their knowledge, the limits of their own endurance and trust.


This is exactly what I was trying to say. Wise woman Ms Black.
post #46 of 46
you are too sweet!

thanks
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