Time out crazy

[mamaofthree]

My BIL and SIL came over last night with their 2 little ones. They have an alomost 4 yo girl and an amost 2 yearold boy. They are time out crazy. In the first 20 minutes being at our house the 2 yo got put in time out 5 times! And nothing that he did IMO was even remotely worth putting in time out. In fact it was all completely normal 2 yo actions. It really started to bug me. And then they threatened time out with this kid about 10 more time while they where at our house. He didn't get it. I mean the time outs NEVER once made him stop what he was doing.
I wish I had had a book that was just about what is normal at certain ages. I have one book, it is called "When anger hurts your kids" which I got because I was such a yeller, and it had LOADS of info on who kids naturally act, but it wasn't like that is what they needed. It was like they had NO IDEA how 2 and 4 yo act. It made me crazy!

H

[lilmiss'mama]

Who wrote the book When Anger Hurts Your Kids? Thanks

[mamaofthree]

It was written by: Matthew McKay PhD, Kim Paleg PhD, Patrick Fanning, and Dana Landis.

I really got a lot out of it, because it helped me work thru my own feelings about how my kids where behaving. Plus it was all about journaling, which is helpful to me.

H

[USAmma]

When my dd was 2 I did time-outs with her too. It was effective sometimes, but not all the time. In my case I didn't know what else to do, except I knew I didn't want to spank her. However I did want her to listen and behave better and stop being so defiant.

There were a couple times where she honestly did need a time-out and it took 5 time-outs to correct that behavior because every time she got out she would do a very slight variation of that same behavior to see if that also counted as being the thing I didn't want her to do. She is very defiant and strong-willed, and I didn't want to back down since I had made that the consequence.

It has taken me a lot of inner attitude adjustment, as well as my dd maturing, to get out of the time-out trap. I had to *want* to change inside and she responded immediately. We still do time-outs, but I save them as a last resort.

For example last night she was banging her spoon on her bowl, which dh can't tune out as well as I can. He asked her if she wanted to stop banging, or if she wanted to give him her spoon. She banged again while looking at him in the eye in a challenging way and so he took it away from her. She got mad and went right over and got herself another spoon from the drawer and dh put her in time-out. I might have tried to handle it differently but he's at least following through now, which he wasn't before. She also gets time-out for hitting me if she doesn't get herself under control and say she's sorry.

It also sounds like your BIL and SIL are not being consistent and whatever discipline method they use, that is the worst thing-- being inconsistent. My dh and I are working on that one and dd's starting to understand now that we no longer threaten. First we give a choice, then a warning, then we follow through. Every single time. It's hard to discipline a child at someone else's house. My dd used to take that as a free invitation to misbehave until I started walking her out to the car to sit for awhile if she got really out of control.

What kinds of things were they putting the child in time-out for? Just curious.

Darshani

[mamaofthree]

Well, once it was yelling. Not at someone, just yelling, which I don't know, it isn't a big deal to me. Another was when he took a toy from my ds#2 who is also 2, which is totally a two year old thing, I wasn't upset, ds#2 was a little put out, but got another toy. Another time it was, I think, that he said "no". I am not sure to what, but I don't know. I guess with my first I was more into time-outs, but as I learned what is really age approipiate(sp I can't ever spell that right sorry), I stopped using it.
I honestly don't think that at 2 they really "know" that the time out is punishment. I don't remember it working well at all with my dd, yet I to wanted to use "something" other than spanking.
Also, I think that a time out is more usful with like my dd now that she is 9, it really is more of a "cool down" time. A time where she can gather her wits and maybe beable to talk about something instead of yelling. And it si more of her putting herself in time-out.. ie going to her room to cool off.
I think when kids are young it is more of a traditional "Denise the Menus" type punishment... like sitting in the corner, not really sure it works or not.
Maybe it is just me, but it bugged the heck out of me. It seemed like they over used it. Maybe they didn't follow thru, because they felt uncomfortable with the fact that when my ds#2 did simular things he didn't get time out.

H

[monkey's mom]

oh god--we have those ppl, too!

The thing that kills me the most, is they think it's working!! :LOL

It's been going on for YEEEEEEAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRS! For the same "offences"---over and over and over and over and over again. God, *I* tune them out and we're only with them once a week! :LOL

It does make me very sad for the kids, though. So much shame when they get to come back. The 15 mo. old has already started hiding to do things she's not allowed to do (you know, like explore toys with her mouth!!).

[USAmma]

Well, once it was yelling. Not at someone, just yelling, which I don't know, it isn't a big deal to me. Another was when he took a toy from my ds#2 who is also 2, which is totally a two year old thing, I wasn't upset, ds#2 was a little put out, but got another toy. Another time it was, I think, that he said "no". I am not sure to what, but I don't know.

Oh wow, that is a bit extreme. Poor kid. That's not something I'd use time out for. If I put my dd in time out for yelling she's always be there! :

Darshani

[Piglet68]

I feel really sorry for both the kids and the parents, because it makes everything so stressful for everybody. Gosh, I can't imagine putting a child that young into timeouts, especially not so often!

I guess it really goes to show you that what constitutes "bad behaviour" often has more to do with what the parents can tolerate then what the kids are actually doing. And usually that means the parents need to look to themselves about *why* they are finding a particular behaviour so upsetting (often it is something *they* were chastised for as a child).

I don't think I'd want to visit much with people who made it all so miserable. If DD is ever doing something we find annoying, we just distract her with something else and never let her think what she was doing was wrong, just "hey look at THIS fun thing!". It's never a battle.

[megsmom]

nearly 2 time outs

You all seem to be somewhat enlightened on what gets results with a 2 year old- so please help.
My darling daughter hits me and my husband - we have tried time outs, to no avail.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated - or book recommendations.
Thanks!

[USAmma]

My darling daughter hits me and my husband - we have tried time outs, to no avail.

What about giving yourself a time-out? When dd was younger she used to hit me on the face when I was holding her just for kicks. I would immediately put her down on the floor and walk away fast. She was so shocked by that reaction that it only took a couples times of that to correct the problem. I also showed her how to stroke me nicely and gave her big kisses and smiles when she would stroke my cheek instead of hitting.

Now that dd is barely 3 and hits or shouts at me, I tell her I'm sad because she hit/shouted at me and I tell her I'm going away for awhile. Then I walk to my room and lock the door and stay there for about 2 minutes. My dd runs to the door and cries and says sorry and then we talk about it. If she starts up again I just ask her, "Do you want mommy to go away for awhile, or will you talk nicely to me?" and most of the time she'll shift into "nice" gear real fast.

Darshani

[emmasayshi]

I think time outs are worst than spanking. Being abandoned is the biggest fear a child has! Time outs are abusive.

[monkey's mom]

Gah--at playgroup the other day (all just under 2), moms were putting kids in time out for things like climbing on kitchen chairs! And, having to physically hold them down in time out. One kept saying, "Do you want me start the clock over?" over and over.

It was really horrible for me to watch. I feel so badly for these babies.

I tried to do a little GD pr work with one mom--I dunno...

How did time-out get to be this generation's be-all and end-all? I hate it.

[Marsupialmom]

How to distroy the usefulness of any disipline techniques "USE THREATS".

[pamelamama]

Originally posted by emmasayshi
I think time outs are worst than spanking. Being abandoned is the biggest fear a child has! Time outs are abusive.

Since the phrase "time out" can be used to describe many different parenting strategies and techniques, I find the above statement overbroad.

Although I have not found time-outs effective in my own paretning, I have seen them used well by other parents and no "abandonment" was involved.

For example, when her son is overstimulated by an activity or experiencing conflict, my friend asks her child to disengage from the activity and relocate to a nearby spot. She joins him, they talk about the problem, and proceed to problem-solve together. Having a moment to step back and think, reorganize, can often be useful.

[monkey's mom]

Isn't that a "time-IN?" I'm very much down with that. I used them a lot when ds was hitting at playgroup. The main difference I see is that it's goal is not punishment--it's a way to step back and re-group/problem solve.

I think the time-out that most people use and that people here have a problem with is the "go to your room by yourself for 5 minutes" / "sit in that chair and don't get up for 2 minutes." You know, the modern day version of "Go stand in the corner."

[mamaofthree]

I think, like I said before, that it works better with the child doing it themselves... when they are old enough to see themselves getting out of control. Like my DD who is 9. When she feels like she can't get it together or something she goes off by herself to regroup.
With the little guys, I just don't see it working. (From my own personal experience is what I am going from) I don't feel that they have learned to "control" the thing that they were doing. Especially at only 2. I don't think DN really behaved "better" or different after all the time-outs. He just continued to act 2.
Personally, after trying the whole "time-out" thing with my dd when she was little, I noticed she didn't really understand much of why she was there, just that she would get REALLY pissed. So with the boys we just didn't do it, and DS#1 is doing fine not having a "time-out/in the corner" . He seems to beable to get himself under control. It took my DD a lot longer to beable to do that herself.

Anyway... just more thoughts from me!

H