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Infant Seat Test Flaws Article - Page 2

post #21 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElleTwo View Post
What the article does cement for me is my negative opinion on buckets in general. My observation is that a pretty large portion of bucket users are complacent on safety.
We bought a SafeSeat for our youngest because I researched and it was found to be one of the safest infant seats (at the time obviously). My babies do not fit into convertable carseats at birth and I have read again and again that infant seats are safest for newborns.

The real issue is why aren't carseats tested better for safety before being put on the market?
post #22 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by alegna View Post
3 in 1s are almost never a good idea.

Buckets are fine. The key IMO is using a reliable brand.

-Angela
The scary thing about that article is that reliable brands, for example the Britax Companion, failed terribly.
post #23 of 95
And here I bought the 200.00 companion because I thought I was being safe. Not complacent. He's in a marathon now, I move him as soon as he fits well in one. I'd been saving my companion for my next babies I want, what should I do with it?
post #24 of 95
Watching the video on the companion made me ill. I am so glad that she is out of that seat. That being said, we are currently using the bottom slots on her Marathon, so there is no way my little 18 inches at birth DD would have fit in it as an infant.
post #25 of 95
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCMoulton View Post
Honestly, that is truly an offensive statement to make. There are many moms here that use infant seats as they are the best fit for a large number of infants.
That sentence, taken out of the context of the surrounding words, might be provocative..It's followed by an example of parents putting the seats on shopping carts to give clarification. And please notice that I end the post by putting what fault there is on the manufacturers/marketers, not on parents, for not making people more aware of safety issues like unsecured buckets falling off shopping carts, and infants who have breathing problems when they are left in an unsuitable position in the bucket for long periods of time.
post #26 of 95
This part of the article attracted my attention:
Quote:
The Tribune found that many infant restraints strapped into the back seats of vehicles with five-star safety ratings — the highest possible — performed poorly.

Auto ratings aren't even negatively affected when a vehicle's back seat breaks apart in a head-on collision.

Yet a problem with the back seat can have a dramatic effect on child safety restraints. Photos from NHTSA's testing show that the back seat of the model-2008 Infiniti EX35 hatchback moved so much during its frontal crash test that the bottom and top seat cushions separated. Both the Combi Connection and the Graco SnugRide in that test exceeded limits for head and chest injuries in that crash.

The strap that fastens between the baby's legs on the Combi Connection ripped out of the infant carrier, a structural failure that didn't happen in a subsequent crash test in a Saturn Vue SUV where the back seat remained intact. The Infiniti has a four-star frontal crash rating.
Sounds like we need better cars before we can start talking about better carseats. A carseat can only take so much stress, it's not meant to absorb a complete crash, like what apparently happened in this test.
post #27 of 95
I really think the big thing this exposed is NOT that the car seats are unsafe. They comply to their standards. It's that the testing process does not allow for things like the back seat seperating. Car seats are crash tested on sleds, bench seats. There are no 'real life factors'. And realistically, how do you do that? You couldn't ever test every combination of car seats and vehicles, plus positions in the vehicle and improper use scenerios that we see every day.

Also, it's VERY important to realize that a 35 mph test into a concrete barrier EXCEEDS the impact forces of 95% of real life collisions.
post #28 of 95
It's an interesting article. It underlines what I've been saying for years- we need to test seats in CARS, not sleds.

I think that standards need to be much higher but I think people will scream bloody murder when they see prices for seats to meet higher standards.

This is a good example of why I analyze extra safety features in choosing seats instead of assuming the tired line that all seats are equally safe.

I don't think buckets are any worse than other seats- I just think they were what was tested here.

-Angela
post #29 of 95
Wow. Scary stuff. That Safe Kids response is accurate but lends a dismissive feeling. I see they're trying to make sure parents continue to use the seats and don't stop, claiming, "they're not safe anyway." But to those of us who are in the highly concerned category, it's neither here nor there whether they are the safest seats on the market. The safest seats are still not safe enough.

We just bought a KeyFit 30. Thankfully it seemed to be the safest of the bunch...though it still worries me. And Britax??? Shame on them!
post #30 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Past_VNE View Post
Wow. Scary stuff. That Safe Kids response is accurate but lends a dismissive feeling.

And Britax??? Shame on them!
I think Safe Kids has to lend a calming voice. It will do no good to have parents panicking that their seats are unsafe. Like Angela said, it's just that these seats were tested. We could all ditch infant carriers and run out for convertibles, but we haven't seen those results in these situations. Safe Kids has a responsibility to say, slow down, take a step back. Get your seats checked by a CPST and by all means USE them. Non-use is a HUGE issue, more than most parents not involved in the CPS world probably realize. In most areas, around 50% of fatalities in vehicles are unrestrained children. Studies like this and the Freakanomics guy, get people arguing with us that no car seat is safe. Which is the last thing we need to have happen.

Testing at 35 MPH, in vehicles where the entire back seats are failing is not even remotely standard practice. I work with people who work at the crash test facilities, and Britax is one the companies that comes back again and again, to get it right. They voluntarily recall their own products. Britax is one of the good guys in this, they have gone far and above to try to get it right.

I'm not sure what to make of this. It's not something that we know much about yet. It's really important to remember that this testing is more severe than 95% of crashes. I think that we all have to step back and see what comes of it, and in the mean time, be sure we are correctly using our seats every time.
post #31 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by soxthecatrules View Post
I came back to post that this seat would definitely not be the last one you need....but, somebody already beat me to the punch!! I just finished our search for a seat for DS and was trying to get him back to RF. I swear I put him in every convertible seat in town and really nothing (even the few Britax models in town) was going to last him much longer than his CrappySport. I've ordered a Nautilus. $143 on Amazon.
Did you get a chance to try a TrueFit? I think it'd RF longer than a Marathon by a good bit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thixle View Post
So, too small for a tiny baby is the main reason for no 3-in-1? or is it bc they are too small for the larger kids in the weight class? Or, what the heck am I missing here? :
There's a few things you want to see in a convertible carseat:

* Low bottom slot for newborns (not significant if your baby is older)
* High weight limit for rear-facing (35 lbs. is as high as they go right now in the US)
* High *height* limit for rear-facing (this is determined by the shell height; the child's head has to be at least 1" below the top of the shell when RFing)
* High top slot for front-facing (child's shoulder has to be BELOW the slot when FFing, unlike RFing where the shoulder should be ABOVE the slot)
* High shell for front-facing (child's ears should not be above the top of the shell)
* High enough weight limit (the highest out there is 80 lbs., but most kids outgrow by height well before weight)

Ideally, you want your convertible to keep a child RFing until at LEAST two, but the older the better, and harnessed front-facing until booster-ready, which would be at LEAST age five for most kids (it's more a maturity thing than a size thing, though size is a factor too; most kids reach the minimum size well before they can handle using a seatbelt properly, though).

The 3-in-1s don't generally meet those standards. Additionally, they don't position the seat belt well in booster mode, and there's often a gap between when the child has outgrown the seat forward-facing with harness, and meets the seat's requirements for booster use.

These days, I'd recommend a TrueFit, and then either a combination seat (Graco Nautilus or Britax Frontier) or a dedicated booster, depending on the child's age when they outgrow the TrueFit. If you're pretty sure you'll be getting a combination seat anyway, then the Marathon or Boulevard are great seats, too.
post #32 of 95
The new 3-in-1 seats like the one linked to earlier actually have taller top slots than the Marathon, and are much cheaper. They are great RF'ing seats, and now will last you a long time FF'ing as well. Just don't expect to use it as a booster.
post #33 of 95
Hey Ironica...

A TrueFit was one of my choices, but, we had no opportunity to "test" it IRL. When your only choices in town to get carseats are Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Target, Sears, and BigLots you don't have much to pick from outside of Graco and Dorel seats. Target has the best range in town and now are the only ones who carry Britax. Sears used to have Britax but they cleared them out a year or so ago. Image Marathons for $75!!! I do not lie and I do not exaggerate on this one!! A friend of ours bought one. Target and Wal-Mart do carry some First Years models but nothing with a harness. I wasn't brave enough to purchase a TrueFit sight unseen.
post #34 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by LavenderMae View Post
The real issue is why aren't carseats tested better for safety before being put on the market?
I would agree that better testing needs to occur. In the meantime, this article had me question the safety of the infant buckets in general, but apparently avoiding them isn't the safest thing to do either unless you have a larger baby. That's a shame the seats that are supposed to work for babies & toddlers, like the Britax Marathon, can't reasonably accommodate both.
post #35 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by an_aurora View Post
The new 3-in-1 seats like the one linked to earlier actually have taller top slots than the Marathon, and are much cheaper. They are great RF'ing seats, and now will last you a long time FF'ing as well. Just don't expect to use it as a booster.
That's true. The 50lb version is improved from the 40lb version. The one that goes to 50lbs has approx 17" top slots & a 50lb limit. Most kids outgrow seats by height before weight. I had the older version & liked it, but I have a 2yr old that is all torso & outgrew it completely. He'd still fit the new version though. I agree that it doesn't make a great booster. (Don't worry, kiddo moved to a Regent & won't be in a booster for a long time. )
post #36 of 95
I just wanted to add that I've used a Radian 65 with my youngest since birth, and I've loved it the whole time, and am glad that he will fit in it until he's 5-6(my 6yo could still fit in it), and I'd recommend that seat over any other convertible that converts to a booster.

For me, the TrueFit is too big, it's a nice seat, just too big.

I am admittedly nervous about the SafeSeat information, that's my baby's seat in DH's vehicle, not in it very often admittedly, but still...
post #37 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by ElleTwo View Post
My observation is that a pretty large portion of bucket users are complacent on safety.
Or some of us have done research and decided that buckets are the safest option for our individual babies and circumstances. My babies are preemies and will be going home smaller than the average baby. After a lot of research and asking expert opinions, I just don't think convertibles are safest in the early weeks when they're so small. Even though some are rated for 5 lbs and over, the straps are too high, or they don't recline enough and make it hard for preemies to breathe effectively.

I'm not a fan of assumptions based on the few ignorant people who do stupid things. I could say that breastfeeding moms are complacent on safety, based on the idiot who was breastfeeding her baby while driving 60 miles an hour down the highway and talking on her cell phone. It wouldn't be an accurate assumption.
post #38 of 95
However, I was very impressed by Combi's response to the information. They're a great company!
post #39 of 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by mamapixie View Post
I just wanted to add that I've used a Radian 65 with my youngest since birth, and I've loved it the whole time, and am glad that he will fit in it until he's 5-6(my 6yo could still fit in it), and I'd recommend that seat over any other convertible that converts to a booster.
What weight & length was your youngest at birth? Glad to know the Radian 65 works well for you!
post #40 of 95
He was about 7lbs, and 20 inches long. I did buy the cover/padding from a Radian 80, and used the infant padding that is included with that for the first few months.
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