New Mom - Appt for Vax Thursday - Pediarix?

[ambier]

Please help! We have an appointment with our 2 month old son's Pediatrician for Thursday for his first vaccines. They wanted to do them at his 6 week checkup, but I asked they wait. In the last two weeks I've done a lot of research, trying to decide what is right. I don't feel comfortable with vaccines - we had a puppy die within 48 hours after receiving her first shots (not comparable but worrisome all the same) but I also don't feel comfortable not vaccinating him at all. This is all I've been thinking about night and day... I've got a constant knot in my stomach. Based on what I've researched I don't think I want to do Prevnar at all. And I'm undecided about the MMR and Varivax (I myself have never had chicken pox so am not sure if that will play into it). We live in a rural area, my son is exclusively breastfed, and will not be attending day care or nursery or anything like that.

Below my pediatrician's recommended vax schedule:

6 wks - Pediarix #1, HIB#1, Prevnar#1
4mos - Pediarix #2, HIB#2, Prevnar#2
6mos - Pediarix #3, Prevnar#3
12mos - MMR#1, Varivax, Lead Screen, CBC
15mos - DTAP#4, Prevnar#4, HIB #3
2 yrs - Lead Screen
4 yrs - DTAP#5, IPV#4, MMR#2

Here is what I'm considering doing:
2 months - Pediarix #1
3 months - Hib (This will require a special visit)
4 months - Pediarix #2
6 months - Hib #2
9 months - Pediarix #3
12 months – Hib #3
Not sure after that...

I feel like this is a schedule my current pediatrician would go along with. We don't have a lot of options in our tiny town and we already switched once. But now I'm wondering if I should just wait and not do anything until he's 4 months? Please let me know what you think... he did receive Hep B at Birth because we didn't know any better and were pressured into it

[kiara7]

nak.

I wouldn't do anything until you're completely sure of what you want to do. There is too much at stake, and you can't take vaccines back (you can always give them later though). We've had many HIB discussions recently, there is one in Selective/Delayed forum. Breastfeeding is highly protective of HIB among many other things that the vax's "protect" against.

Cancel the appointment, read, research, ask questions and don't do anything until you're completely sure (that might be in 2 weeks or 2 years or never.)

Good Luck!

[nicolebeth]

I strongly recommend NOT doing Pediarix.

I felt like it was the wrong thing for DS, and he did react (screaming for over four hours). We thought it was the P of the DTaP portion, but who knows? Considering that he had HIB and Prevnar, too, we now believe it was from the aluminum. Pediarix and Prevnar both contain tons of aluminum.

Again, I didn't sleep at all the night before, knew we shouldn't get this shot combination, and I let myself be pressured into it.

The fact that you're asking these questions two days before your appointment suggests that you are uncertain about this schedule. You don't have to do any shots, ever. You can do as many or as few as you want, when you want to do them.

I question this recommended schedule for putting the MMR at age 12 months rather than 15 months as well (there is a higher rate of immune response waiting the additional months). That said, DS has not had the MMR (he's almost four) and DD has not had a second one (though she was "immune" per titres at age 5; she's almost seven).

Note: if your DS received Hep B at birth, I believe he will be getting too many Hep B shots with your schedule of using Pediarix.

If your concern is pertussis, you can do DTaP alone (selecting the version with a lower aluminum content). Polio is not a risk in the US, and Hep B is not a risk for babies. Remember, though, the recent studies that show increased incidences of childhood asthma the earlier that babies/kids receive the pertussis vaccine (something I read all over the "mainstream" news).

Good luck! And, again, it sounds like you are unsure. Because of that, I recommend holding off longer.

[just_lily]

I definitely second the suggestion of waiting. This is a tough decision, and it isn't one that should be made in a panic, on someone else's imposed timeline, or out of fear.

There is a lot of material to get through. It took me about six months to reach a place where I am completely comfortable with my decision.

My advice is to cancel your appointment so you don't feel the pressure of a deadline. Just tell them that something has come up and you have to cancel, and you will call back and rebook when you are more sure of your schedule. Don't get into a vax debate with whoever answers the phone. Not worth it.

Good luck mama!!

[Ophelia]

First, I know how tough it is!

They wanted to do them at his 6 week checkup, but I asked they wait.

This really concerns me. My understanding is that the first set of vaccines is not done until 8 weeks. This is telling me they do not have your son's best interest at heart, why the rush?

In the last two weeks I've done a lot of research

Just an FYI, I've been researching nearly every day for over 2 years now and I'm still learning a lot. It really will take you more than two weeks to make a truly informed decision, especially since you are trying to take care of a newborn at the same time.

we had a puppy die within 48 hours after receiving her first shots (not comparable but worrisome all the same)

I'm sorry to hear that and I wouldn't brush it off as being not comparable either. Vaccines are vaccines are vaccines, whether given to humans or animals. Also FYI, my understanding is that all the mercury has been removed from pet vaccines because the vets knew it was causing problems and demanded it removed. The federal gov't requested that mercury be removed from human vaccines but didn't require it. It's still in many vaccines. So it's not OK to poison our pets but it's OK to poison our kids. Nice, huh?

I feel like this is a schedule my current pediatrician would go along with. We don't have a lot of options in our tiny town and we already switched once.

You are the parent, you make the decision. NOT the pediatrician/doctor. You have hired the pediatrician, not the other way around. Definitely something to keep in mind when they are trying to push schedules on you! Also, you do not need a vaccination exemption just to see a doctor, nor do you need to sign any refusal papers. They are only for guilt-tripping and to cover the doctor's *ss. Legally you do not have to sign anything at the doctors, except to agree to administer the vaccines. If you decide to keep your next visit, just say you are still researching vaccines, end of discussion. Do not let them bully or scaremonger you. Also remember you are not paying the ped to be bullying or scaremongering!

Remember, the worst thing you can do is rush this decision. Once you put the vaccine in, you cannot take it back. Only do vaccines if you are absolutely sure, and research every one of them. I have some great starter research links on my website, including http://insidevaccines.com.

I would be extremely wary of doing combo vaccines such as Pediarix. The MMR/Varicella was combined and I believe it causes more seizures. I don't know if it is still in use or not.

[Emmeline II]

I knew a breeder when I lived in Alaska and it seems that vax reactions are taken more seriously with animals. After losing a litter post vax she did not vax a pup under six months.

Anyhoo, I would reschedule that appointment. You cannot take them out once they are in.

Vaccines-The Risks, the Benefits, the Choices DVD, By Sherri J. TENPENNY
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...35240451107552


Here are some questions to answer for yourself in deciding about vax.

1. Name of the disease
2. Description of the disease
3. Length of time from initial infection to end of all symptoms
4. Infectious period
5. Normal symptoms of the disease
6. Known serious consequences of the disease
7. Proportion of persons infected developing serious consequences
8. Transmission route of the disease
9. Prevalence of the disease
10. Treatments of the disease and efficacy of those treatments
11. Relevant research about the disease
12. Name of the vaccine
13. Company that makes the vaccine
14. Contents of the vaccine
14A. The significance of whether or not the vaccine is live
15. History of development of the vaccine
16. Known side-effects of the vaccine and rate of incidence of those side-effects
17. Possible side-effects not yet acknowledged by the vaccine maker
18. Relevant research into the vaccine
19. How effective is the vaccine at preventing the disease?
20.What is the vaccine meant to do? (Many vaccines are not meant to prevent infection or transmission).
21.Number of cases reported each year.
22.Number of deaths reported each year from the vaccine and natural disease.

Here are some sources to help you out:

Inside Vaccines


http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_wk.html (download the current issue)
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...k-chapters.htm
http://vaers.hhs.gov/pdf/PackageInserts.pdf
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...40451107552&q=
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...87981735&hl=en
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...ses&deaths.pdf

[Marnica]

I agree with above posters.

I'm researching over 3 years. 2 weeks is not enough to inform yourself fully.
Take a breath and delay this decision. It's too important not to.

[ambier]

Thank-you

Thanks everyone. I have cancelled the appointment for now.

[PaigeC]

You go mama! Trusting your instincts is always the best course.

[mommyofemma]

:Good decision!Like others have said - you can always give a vaccine but you can never take one away. Keep doing your research! Best of luck*

[Scattershoot]

I have cancelled the appointment for now.

Good for you.

Dr. Moulden has the first 4 chapters of his book on the net for free. His website is:

www.brainguardmd.com

If you go to Bloodflow and click, his MASS book comes up.

I don't know anyone who breaks down what vaccinations do to the body more than he does.

www.thinktwice.com is good as well

[newmum35]

If it were me, I would do one of two things, either:

1) Cancel the 2 month appt and simply show up at the 4 month appt when you are more ready and know exactly which vaccine you want administered that day (I would never get more than one per vist; if he were to react badly how would you ever know which one caused it?) - and when I mean one vaccine, I do not mean pediatrix which is a LOT of vaccines all in one shot. I would never agree to this particular combination. Allowing one shot, meaning: one vaccine inside. The exception to this would be pertussis which is not available alone and is only available in the DTaP shot. (one shot, but 3 vaccines inside)

2) Personally, as a first time mom, I would not feel comfortable with entirely skipping this appt, therefore, I would Keep the 2 month appt and during that appt, say that I am not comfortable vaccinating this early and would like to wait until the 4 month appt to begin. Tell them you don't want more than 1 shot per visit and that there are some that you are planning on postponing until a later age such as those he is at near zero risk for (polio, and hepB, which is a sexually transmitted disease for example) These can safely be postponed for several years.


I was once in your situation, I wasn't exactly sure which ones I wanted and when, but I knew what I did NOT want. I did NOT want more than one shot given per visit, and not more than one vaccine inside that one shot. Give not more than 1 per month. Since pertussus was only available inside DTaP that was the exception. At the 2 week or 1 month visit (I forget which), I asked them which was the most important one to get first, and that I would only be getting one on our next visit.

The ped said DTaP and that's the one I did, on our 2 month check-up, however I rescheduled our appt, and we end up going at about 2 months 3 week of age, so he was closer to 3 months at his 2-month well baby visit. (IF I had to do it over again, I would go for 2 month check up, skip ALL vaccines that day, and say I was planning on starting shots at one of the future visits- either 4 or 6 months.) One thing I learned, is that IF YOUR baby has the supposedly very rare side effect of seizures, the anti-seizures medication he will be put on, will be much better tolerated, and more safe for an older baby to handle, compared to a 2 month old. Every extra week counts. I personally would not start before 4 or 6 months of age. They tell you to exclusively breast-feed for the first 4 to 6 months. If a baby cannot even have rice cereal because his digestive system isn't mature enough for it, how does it make sense to inject his tiny and immature system with aluminum and foreign proteins, etc, etc?

If there ever is a next time for me, and IF I decide I want ANY vaccines at all, I'm not going to be vaxing before 4 or 6 months at the earliest. My son is now almost 17 months old. We have only done DTaP (at approx 3,5,7 months) and I am VERY HAPPY and confident in that decision. Every day I am grateful that I did not do more. I originally was going to do hib, but after a lot of research was comfortable with skipping hib and prevnar for my breast-fed, stay at home baby.

Read Stephanie cave's book on how to minimize vaccine reactions - it has info about vitamin C in it, when to give, and how much. I did this for my son, and I'm not positive it helped, or we were merely lucky but his only reaction was a local one - he had a lump on his leg for a few months with the first shot. No fever. No fussiness. I would not give tylenol.

Mine drank expressed breastmilk through a bottle during shot, and he didn't even cry. Not even sure he knew he had a shot. Rub the area with firm pressure with your thumb for a minute or two before shot, this will help desensitize it to the pain as well.

[smeep]

I was undecided until my son was 3 months (and at that point I chose not to vax at all). I decided to hold off on ALL vaccines until I was 100% sure. Why? Because you can always vax later but you can never take them out once they've been given.

[mamakah]

::

Originally Posted by kiara7

nak.

I wouldn't do anything until you're completely sure of what you want to do. There is too much at stake, and you can't take vaccines back (you can always give them later though). We've had many HIB discussions recently, there is one in Selective/Delayed forum. Breastfeeding is highly protective of HIB among many other things that the vax's "protect" against.

Cancel the appointment, read, research, ask questions and don't do anything until you're completely sure (that might be in 2 weeks or 2 years or never.)

Good Luck!

I completely agree. This is how I became "No Vax." I kept stalling and delaying until I felt I knew what I was agreeing to. I finally decided after all my research that vaccines are not for us! I would have been easily persuaded to vax in my early days of research though. As far as Hib goes, when I was a child there was no such vaccine. I asked my mom if she ever worried about me catching it and she didn't even know what I was talking about. I asked "Did you ever know anyone who died of hib?" She hasn't. That was all I needed to know.

[lovbeingamommy]

Originally Posted by ambier

Thanks everyone. I have cancelled the appointment for now.

- trust your instincts - even if you do make another appt. just do the regular stuff - height, wt, etc. and just say we're still researching about vaccines. That's all they need to know...

Other posters have given good advice - Good luck to you.

[ambier]

Thanks again

Thanks so much for all the replies. I am okay with completely cancelling the 2month appt as we saw the Dr at 6 weeks and were only going to be seeing the nurse this visit anyway. NewMum35 - I really like your suggestions and feel the same way - I know what I don't want. I need to research the hib more, but I'm wondering what you do when the child is school age? I just looked up MD's required immunizations and they require 3 doses of HepB, 3 doses Polio and the chicken pox vaccine - all ones I am iffy on. I guess these could all be given on some sort of schedule when the child is older? I want to have some sort of response for the doc when she brings up these "requirements" as I think she will... of course it also says a blood test showing proof of immunity is acceptable. I wonder what the chances are he'd have natural immunity to any of these?

[kiara7]

6-7 years is a long time and you can have him exposed to chicken pox and the like.

If you decide to give just some or none before school you can. For school, Maryland has a religious exemption here:

http://edcp.org/pdf/896_form.pdf

You would just sign it and turn it in.

[Ophelia]

Originally Posted by ambier

I'm wondering what you do when the child is school age? I just looked up MD's required immunizations and they require 3 doses of HepB, 3 doses Polio and the chicken pox vaccine - all ones I am iffy on. I guess these could all be given on some sort of schedule when the child is older? I want to have some sort of response for the doc when she brings up these "requirements" as I think she will... of course it also says a blood test showing proof of immunity is acceptable. I wonder what the chances are he'd have natural immunity to any of these?

Another thing to think about, if you decide to do ANY vaccinations, only do the ones YOU want to do, not the ones the school district wants you to do. Just as the doctor does not make the medical decisions for your child, neither does the school. So personally I would not go by what the school wants at all, only by what I think is right for my child. And yes, you can claim exemption in your state.

[smeep]

Good job, mama! Wait until you are 100% sure on your decision.

I would also research the risks of the vaccines vs. the risks of the diseases. That's what did me in on not vaxing. And Fyrestorm has a list of reported vax reactions vs. deaths from the diseases...it's ridiculously eye-opening. (Dee, where are you? )

FWIW, I used the vax exemption for DS's school. It's even a private school (and in my state private schools do not have to take exemptions). Many schools, unfortunately, are unaware that exemptions exist or even occasionally outright lie so beware of your rights.

[newmum35]

Originally Posted by ambier

Below my pediatrician's recommended vax schedule:

6 wks - Pediarix #1, HIB#1, Prevnar#1
4mos - Pediarix #2, HIB#2, Prevnar#2
6mos - Pediarix #3, Prevnar#3
12mos - MMR#1, Varivax, Lead Screen, CBC
15mos - DTAP#4, Prevnar#4, HIB #3
2 yrs - Lead Screen
4 yrs - DTAP#5, IPV#4, MMR#2

Please let me know what you think... he did receive Hep B at Birth because we didn't know any better and were pressured into it

I hadn't really examined your pediatrician vax schedule until now. This differs greatly from my own ped office. Not only do they not use pediatrix at mine, but they do MMR at 15 mos, and DTaP #4 at 18 months. They begin the schedule at 8 weeks (2months) NOT 6 weeks as your ped.

Your ped seems to give them at the earliest possible age, whereas mine at the latest recommended age. (and trust me, I don't have a ped who is non-vax. They are very pro-vax. In fact I'm thinking of looking for a new ped. for various reasons unrelated to vaxing.) I know your options are limited, but I would be suspicious of this. Do stand your ground, and do not let them inject ANYthing into your baby that you don't approve, and check, doublecheck right up until the time your baby gets the shot.

Another thing - when the nurse walks in to give the shot, before you sign the form, ask to see the vial or take it home with you (they had no problem letting me bring the vial home) and double check the lot # on the vial to the paper to make sure they wrote it down correctly. While you are at it, double check to make sure the vaccine on the vial is the one you agreed to give that day, and you can also ask the dr to have the nurse fill syringe from the vial of vaccine in the room in your presence and not in the back room somewhere like they usually do out of sight (learned this one the hard way)

Insist on "single-dose" vials NOT multiple dose vials. They are safer with less preservatives, as they are not reused for any other kids.

Using your peds recommended schedule would have given your baby FOUR hep B shots, since he already had one at birth. Only 3 doses are on the schedule. Familiarize yourself with the recommended schedule and the catch up schedule for kids who start later.

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/sch....htm#printable

catch-up schedule:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/recs/sch...chedule_pr.pdf


By the way, scroll down to where it says vaccines for adults. Yep, theres actually a 2009 adult schedule too. Creepy isn't it?

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/PDF/wk/mm5753-Immunization.pdf