*Update* My health memoirs, please help edit for happy ending: - Page 5

[chlobo]

wow Tanya. this is awesome. I'm going to ask a few more questions and then I'll post my current plan.

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

Oh, and if you have a pic of your daughter's hair test, and you want to put it up to discuss/compare with your son and you, go for it. I'd expect it to be similar to you two, but if it's not, in any significant way, it would be good to know.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ughterhair.jpg

--supplemental reduced glutathione (sonnambula mentioned it, Cutler is against it as ineffective but I've also read/heard elsewhere that it works, I think it's good and would probably relieve some stress on your body, also would tend to protect your breastmilk)--I don't know dosages, the liver supp I got for the kids, Perque A/O2 Liva Guard has 60mg reduced glutathione in 2 capsules (I gave the kids 1/2 cap each) and 200mg silymarin

this would be for all of us? I'd take 2 they would take .5?


--I'll send you some of my multi-vitamin, they don't have iron or copper, and you can see if you tolerate them (I got your PM too late today to get them in the mail, so it'll be Monday)

awesome. thanks. Is Perque available widely? Or do you need to go through a practitioner?

--re: your bowel tolerance of vitC--crazy-high copper is clearly toxic, but I don't know if that would cause bowel tolerance to go up--but vitC is really supportive in a lot of ways, I'd keep going up til you hit bowel tolerance and then stay there, take it religiously 3x/day (I have to buy in bulk, I'm using Now sodium ascorbate and ordering multiple 3-pound containers at once )

Believe me. I"m cramming. Yesterday I had about 15g and no bowel tolerance. I use Source Naturals sodium ascorbate.


--a cal/mag supp at dinner is fine, you'll probably absorb more of the cal than the mag which isn't a problem given that you want it for the calcium to out-compete the lead

So the cal/mag supplements has 488mg calcium - 49% & 244 mg Mag - 62%. That doesn't sound like enough for me. Is there calcium in your multi or would I need a separate one? Don't I need extra calcium to help keep the lead out?

Also, I couldn't find what you said the kids did for CA. Is it in the Perque Bone Guard?

--magnesium, I'd guess 100mg? were you taking any when you had the hair test done? Maybe add 100mg to whatever you were doing before (my guess).

The Natural Calm is 615mg Mag (elemental from magnesium citrate) - 150% That seems like enough for me. Maybe 200mg for the kids?

--vitE there are 200IU per 2 tablets of my multi, if it works for you, I'd take 2 with breakfast and 2 with lunch (they also have zinc, so that the zinc for breakfast, zinc for lunch, calcium for dinner and mag at bedtime approach) making 400IU of vitE which I think is reasonable

How much zinc are in them? I believe FF said for me to have 40-50 zinc & the kids to have 10mg while we're not under the care of someone.

--zinc--Thorne is a good brand, I use it for the kids (theirs is 30mg zinc citrate, I'd do 1.5 per day), wouldn't need it if my multi works for you

I'm thinking maybe half for the kids

--selenium I'd say supplement a total of 400mcg, which I know is on the high end, you'd need a stand-alone in addition to the multi (it'd be nice if it works, I'll package : along with it)--I've always read l-selenomethionine is the best form but I'm seeing selenium picolinates around, probably either is fine (if you get the Liva Guard, that has 100mcg in 2 capsules, so reduce other sources accordingly)

--B-12 we use Perque Activated B-12 guard, my HCP likes Thorne and Perque brands for vits/minerals, so I'm not familiar with a lot of other choices
http://perque.com/pdfs/PERQUE-Activated-B-12-Guard.pdf

--no idea where to buy NAC or what typical dosages are (anyone??)

--I don't know about phosphatidylcholine, taurine and glycine --hey, I'd try to find an all-in-one milk thistle and other stuff liver supp, and just use that instead, because sonnambula said selenium, NAC, and C along with the milk thistle all are important, and the reduced glutathione should help too (I'd go with the stuff from her over the stuff from the book)

--folate-my multi has 400mcg of folate per 2 tablets, I don't have a stand-alone

--I don't take betaine or a stand-alone pantothenic acid (only 100mg in 2 tablets of my multi) so I don't know what to recommend

--the kids need calcium to deal with the lead, I use a tablet that I grind up for them, I mentioned it above, but it has a small amount of copper in it, so you shouldn't use it for yourself

Well Isabella seems to have fairly high copper as well. Maybe WhoMe can recommend calcium without copper.

[chlobo]

Does anyone know of a good source of the following:

Vit E
N-acetyl cysteine
Phosphatidylcholine
Taurine
Glycine
Panthothenic Acid

These are the ones I seem to be hung up on. The others I have found sources for.

[Theloose]

Originally Posted by chlobo

Would you recommend getting B's separately? Or are there sublinguals that are multis? What brand do you use?

I've just been using whatever I find at the health food store. I started with a b complex plus metagenics cortico B5-B6 for my adrenals. I've ditched the complex now because it has folic acid, and I've got those infamous MTHFR mutations. I'm doing the B's individually instead, but now I'm experimenting with dropping most of them altogether.

The sublingual is most important for the B12. And the only one I have a brand opinion on so far is twin labs pantothenic acid - it's in capsules rather than tabs, and it seems to make a difference for me. I'm really not an expert on forms/brands/whatever, I haven't done all that much experimenting.

Originally Posted by chlobo

Does anyone know of a good source of the following:

Vit E
N-acetyl cysteine
Phosphatidylcholine
Taurine
Glycine
Panthothenic Acid

These are the ones I seem to be hung up on. The others I have found sources for.

I have Jarrow brand NAC, and it seems good. The vitamin shop I went to said it was their most popular, so it shouldn't be too hard to find. I mentioned pantothenic acid above. Glycine - I just do lots of gelatin (bake it into stuff, add it to bone broth when it's not gelling on it's own). Phosphatidylcholine will be in lecithin, so egg yolks are good if you can do those.

[chlobo]

So I just had a short conversation with this person:

http://www.mainewholehealth.com/contact.html

She does chelation by giving a person their homeopathic constitutional remedy along with nutritional supplements & supplements that bind to the toxins & escort them out. One she mentioned was Metaloclear (sp?) by Metagenics.

Has anyone heard of this?

She said she didn't think Isopathy would work. And she said there are no isopathic practitioners in Maine. All the practitioners she knows are classical homeopaths. Guess I should have tried there before when I wanted a classical one. lol.

[sonnambula]

I have never heard of an isopathic practitioner either (in general) it's usually an ND or a homeopath that uses isopathy. It's a very small sect of homeopathy, like using sarcodes. Robin Murphy is a classical homeopath that uses isopathy frequently in his practice. You aren't looking for someone separate necessarily, just someone who knows how to use it.

I would LOVE it if classical homeopathy could do this, but it's not my experience and noone I asked (on any of my boards, my professors, practitioners etc.) could produce any results that would prove this. My life would be happy if I could find someone who could tell me that it was not only possible (they all say that-and maybe it's true) but that they had done it. If I could count on homeopathy to mobilize and excrete metals, well lets just say I'd be one happy person. I'm clearly not a skeptic here. In theory part of the body self righting WOULD be getting rid of chemicals and metals. I just wish I had seen that with my own eyes. I wish out of the dozens of people I contacted ONE would have said, "yes, I have done this successfully."

Our levels didn't move on constitutional treatment and at least with my dd and ds I KNOW it was the right remedy. Different people repertorized the case for dd at different times and came up with the same thing. It produced (and still produces!) profound changes. It's clearly her remedy, but after 2 years her metal status wasn't any better. Isopathy has changed things. Not only on paper, either.

If she has success doing this then I'd say go for it. I just wonder how she measures that success. IF she does before and after tests and sees mobilization and excretion JUST using the constitutional remedy *I'M* going to want to talk to her. It would seriously MAKE MY DAY. She's who I have been looking for.

And yes, I'm familiar with Metagenics. They are a very reliable company and give trainings for homeopaths and naturopaths all the time.

[chlobo]

Originally Posted by sonnambula

If she has success doing this then I'd say go for it. I just wonder how she measures that success. IF she does before and after tests and sees mobilization and excretion JUST using the constitutional remedy *I'M* going to want to talk to her. It would seriously MAKE MY DAY. She's who I have been looking for.

And yes, I'm familiar with Metagenics. They are a very reliable company and give trainings for homeopaths and naturopaths all the time.

We didn't have time to finish the conversation. But what she said was that she uses the remedy in "conjunction" with the nutritional supplements & things like the one I mentioned. So maybe if she has success it's because she's actually using a chelator like metaloclear instead of an isopathic remedy. She did say she's pretty opened minded and might be willing to try isopathy but didn't know enough about it (potencies, timing, etc) to do it. Maybe I should give her Robin Murphy's #? lol.

She also wasn't "sold" on hair test results. Said urine provocation tests are better. She said she'd call me back. Any burning questions I should ask?

ETa: Here are the ingredients for Metalloclear

THREE TABLETS SUPPLY:
Zinc (as zinc citrate) 5 mg
Andrographis (Andrographis paniculata) Aerial Part Extract 150 mg
Turmeric (Curcuma longa) Rhizome Extract 158 mg
[standardized to 95% (150 mg) curcuminoids]
Proprietary Blend of Hops (Humulus lupulus) and Luduxin® † 2,645 mg

Of course it says not for nursing mothers.

[chlobo]

Originally Posted by sonnambula

I have never heard of an isopathic practitioner either (in general) it's usually an ND or a homeopath that uses isopathy. It's a very small sect of homeopathy, like using sarcodes. Robin Murphy is a classical homeopath that uses isopathy frequently in his practice. You aren't looking for someone separate necessarily, just someone who knows how to use it.

Yes, I knew this. Just didn't phrase it correctly. She's an odd bird b/c she's a naturopath AND a classical homeopath. Which is somewhat of a hybrid as I understand it.

[sonnambula]

not as much as you'd think. Since you can't be licensed as a homeopath if you want to practice without your hands tied it either means MD or ND. Robin Murphy is an ND too-lol. There are many out there, I just don't love the combination (classical homeopathy + naturopathy) which is why I chose not to go that route. But I'm just one person.

Yes, a urine test is far more clear and it's a better way to go. HOWEVER hair tests have no risks and give a pretty good picture of what's going on. ESPECIALLY if you do them with the nutritional profile. I would *personally* question someone who would be interested in doing a provoked urine test on your ds. Not saying she was. For your specific situations, isn't a hair test better than nothing? There are many people that have reacted very badly to DMSA. I can see doing it with a strong individual, but your little one doesn't fall into that category IMO. Neither do you as a nursing mama.

It could well be that she's using a chelator independently of the remedy. That would yield results in theory. Again, it didn't give us great results, but we are one unit. The fact that she's an ND could serve you well in this instance though because with luck she WILL be paying attention to the biochemistry and supporting detoxification pathways. Hopefully she would also monitor results so you could see progress.

And, I'm sure you know by now that any kind of chelation "product" is going to say not for nursing mothers!

I would definitely want to know how she measures outcomes. IF you are going to see progress on paper-I dont' care if it's isopathy, gemmotherapy, oligotherapy or homeopathy. (well, I care if it's homeopathy cause I want answers!) Progress and healing is just that. I just want YOU to feel good. I would ask how she would measure levels in your ds if she doesnt' like the hair. I would ask how she would treat all of you (not protocol-she likely won't do that over the phone) but CAN she treat all of you. Would she feel comfortable treating you even though you are nursing.

[chlobo]

Originally Posted by sonnambula

not as much as you'd think. Since you can't be licensed as a homeopath if you want to practice without your hands tied it either means MD or ND. Robin Murphy is an ND too-lol. There are many out there, I just don't love the combination (classical homeopathy + naturopathy) which is why I chose not to go that route. But I'm just one person.

Well I knew that there were NDs who used homeopathy but I thought the truly classical homeopaths didn't practice anything but homeopathy and as such didn't both with the ND title but I guess I'm wrong.

Unfortunately I missed her call back. I'll have to try her again later this week. She definitely uses nutrition along with other things. And like I said, she was willing to try isopathy. Just didn't know much about it. We'll see. At least she didn't run screaming from the phone.

[sonnambula]

it's VERY confusing. There is no licensure for straight homeopathy-even if you do a doctorate in homeopathic medicine. The only way you can be licensed and therefore dispense (unless you are in a state that has healthcare freedom) is if you have a medical degree. I can practice right now as a classical homeopath, but I can't administer remedies. I can tell you what to take, but I can't actually give it to you. This presents a problem for me as it's far easier to simply give the remedy in the office and send people on their way. I would have to tell them what to get, they'd have to order it and wait several days to get it. Then if that wasn't quite the right thing they'd have to order another remedy....you can see how that might get annoying as the wrong remedy costs money and really has no other use. If I can administer I simply give you a dose.

There may be people who ignore the laws, but I'm not interested in doing that! There is no healthcare freedom here and there is licensing in my state for homeopathic medicine, but only those with a medical degree are eligible. Nothing just for homeopaths.

So yes, you can see someone who has an RSHom, CCH or DHM and they would all be classical homeopaths. They are the most likely to be the purists, but again, unless healthcare freedom exists in that state they can't dispense.

There are alot of people that are ND's and ONLY practice homeopathy. You wouldn't even necessarily know much of the time as they wouldn't ever do anything BUT homeopathy. However they can then dispense without fear. Make sense?

[lil_miss_understood]

Originally Posted by sonnambula

Make sense?

What you've said makes sense. Makes no sense that the law's like that (imho).
Good to see you, btw.

[WuWei]

Originally Posted by sonnambula

I can tell you what to take, but I can't actually give it to you.

There is a fine line. Our CH tells us what she'd advise. She identifiers herself as a "Homeopathic Educator"; and she has the remedies available in her office. But, we always "self-administer" the remedy.


Pat

[chlobo]

That's interesting about the dispensing part. The homeopath I took Adam to see is not licensed as anything. Is Mass one of those "open" states? She seems to have no problems dispensing.

Anyhow, I just talked to the woman Maine again. She seems quite open minded and overall her approach is what I would want. She uses homeopathy, vitamins & minerals, herbals, etc.


1. She favors stopping nursing before treating metals but not opposed to doing it while nursing. Just does not have as much experience doing it that way.

2. She is actually very flexible on the type of testing you do (urine, provoked urine, hair). And she does do testing before (or uses results you have) and after a period of time for treatment.

3. She says she has had measurable results using constitutional remedy & nutrition to lower metal levels.

4. She still isn't sure about the isopathy approach but was more than willing to learn about it and possibly use that approach if that is what I wanted. I mentioned that Robin Murphy practiced it and she seemed intrigued.

5. Overall she seems very open & willing to work with me. She was much more receptive than most of the folks I've talked to and took time to talk to me. She used to practice in NH & now is in ME & knows people in Mass. So she asked that I set up some "talk" time on Thur & she will check her contacts and see if she knows anyone good who is closer to me than her.

Is there a yahoo group for Isopathy I can point her to? lol.

I'm going to call more tomorrow if Adam lets me. He's quite a handful these days. Doesn't seem to get that I'm doing it for his own good.

[mtn.mama]

Sounds like a good lead C!

[sonnambula]

I like all of what she said and think she's worth a try, absolutely!

Pat, yeah I can advise and I can get a retail certificate so that I can sell you the remedy. I would have to have an "order form" so that you fill out that you are requesting the remedy to prove that it was a retail situation. That's an option. Not one I love, but an option. That's why most classical homeopaths without medical degrees will call themselves homeopathic consultants, advisors, educators and the like.

Mass is a bit more liberal. It still is a very fine line.

Thanks, Jacqueline. You too!

[chlobo]

Does anyone have a favorite brand for these supplements? All non-allergenic, of course:

Molybedenum
Vit E
N-acetyl cysteine
Phosphatidylcholine
Taurine
Glycine

Also, does anyone have a mineral supplement for kids? I was referred to this one but it has copper & since Isabella has high copper I don't think I can use it:

Perque Bone Guard Forte

Milk thistle - liver support supplement with other things vs. liquid tincture? Your thoughts? I know Tanya prefers milkl thistle in an overall liver support product. What about others? What do you do?


Here's a good Milk Thistle supplement too: http://www.vitacost.com/Eclectic-Ins...arian-Capsules

http://www.perque.com/product-info.asp (scroll down the page to open the product information)

http://www.vitacart.com/milk-thistle...-s-answer.html

http://www.vitacost.com/Rainbow-Ligh...F-021888107643 (my cost would be $17 for 120 pills)

http://vitanetonline.com/description...extract-175mg/

I'm also looking for a kid friendly CA & Mg supplement.

[chlobo]

Ok. So this is what I've come up with for some of the lingering supps:

Molybdenum
http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=3430

Glycine
http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=14817

Taurine
http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=1427

NAC
http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=8681

I decided to go for powder wherever I could so I could put it in a smoothie or something.

I wasn't sure of the dosage of vit. E so I couldn't decide which one to get.

I ordered liquid Selenium & liquid zinc.

I'm still missing a couple.

ETA: Still can't decide if i go for a multi-B or get them separately.

[tanyalynn]

Quick clarification... your daughter is 5-ish, right, and your son just shy of 2? And she's got really high lead and pretty high copper, and your son has moderate (but still needs to be addressed) lead and okay copper? And you have nasty-high both lead and copper?

Your older child has more lead and copper than your younger child, and you have more of both than either child. I won't argue that some of the lead may be really old (and maybe your first just got a higher toxic load than your 2nd, I believe that to be true for my kids) but this could point to a possible current exposure (older people accumulating more than younger ones). Do you see the dots I'm trying to connect?

You are oldest: toxic high lead and copper
daughter (this all falls apart if I've goofed on which kid is oldest): high lead, fairly high copper
son: moderate-high lead and normal copper

If the copper has gotten lower after you put in the filter, that could fit (you and your daughter had more exposure, you more than her), and your liver is just not working great so you didn't really get rid of it once the environmental source was eliminated. Seems plausible, but I'm not sure of the details on how you tested the water (and how you typically use it--do you have to let it run before taking some to cook? like that).

I'd get a lead test on you, like you planned, with your other bloodwork, and make sure for the previous 2 days to use the water in the house just like you normally do, however you usually draw it to cook and such, to rule out that. And normal days doing normal stuff at home, so if it's in the house, you are exposed if there's anything to be exposed to.

Either way, I wanted to take a look at your daughter's test and see how she fits in. And she's right in-between you and your son for your problematic stuff.

[chlobo]

I did post my daughter's hair test. The link is somewhere in here. I think its in a post at the top of the page.

You got the order of things right. Daughter 5 (going on 50), son 19 months.

We've had our water tested 3 times since we moved in almost 5 years ago. The water has never tested high for copper or lead. 6 months ago the kids tested within normal range for blood levels of lead.

My husbands theory is that I might have been getting the copper from drinking water that had been sitting in the pipes (water with a slight acidity problem) and not letting it run enough before I filled the glass. This is particularly true in our bathroom where I fill my nightly water bottle. My daughter could have been exposed that way as well. However, since we were drinking the water every day I assume her blood test would have come back with high lead. But maybe not. We're going to test his hair too.

I am still waiting for the paperwork from the stupid doctor's office (as of yesterday it still wasn't sent) so I can have my blood drawn. We'll see what it says.

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by chlobo

Ok. So this is what I've come up with for some of the lingering supps:

Molybdenum
http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=3430

Glycine
http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=14817

Taurine
http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=1427

NAC
http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=8681

I decided to go for powder wherever I could so I could put it in a smoothie or something.

I wasn't sure of the dosage of vit. E so I couldn't decide which one to get.

I ordered liquid Selenium & liquid zinc.

I'm still missing a couple.

ETA: Still can't decide if i go for a multi-B or get them separately.

I think Cutler is recommending the higher amt of molybdenum specifically to deal with the excessive amt of copper, so the amt needs to be higher than usual. You'd need to take a lot of drops to get 1mg,

http://www.iherb.com/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=12693&at=0
What about this Carlson molybdenum? 500mcg ea.

In thinking back to a recent discussion with my HCP, she was saying I could add in glycine to help draw out more metals faster when I'm chelating--I don't really understand how adding glycine does that, but can I vote you skip that one?

Taurine--I don't know enough about this or whether it's okay for use while nursing--especially in your circumstances when your health needs improvement. I'd do this before the glycine.

I'd do something moderate and reasonable like 400 IU of vitamin E. I don't think that'd be a horrible choice.

I've never ordered NAC but that looks like a reasonable choice to me.