is the pbs.org development tracker accurate?? - Page 2

[Casha'sMommy]

Just had to share, after reading all the posts about the reactions of others, etc.

Today we took dd to a music store to "play" with pianos and inquire about lessons in the near future. (she's 2.75 yo now and we're thinking in 6-18 mos we'll start some lessons.)
The part I want to share:
For the first time ever our inquiry about music instruction for a deaf, cochlear implanted, and gifted child was met with nothing more than an eagerness to help the clueless parents.
I haven't felt so good about music in a very long time. Most people we talk to treat dd like a deaf kid instead of just addressing the fact that she loves music and actually seems to have a talent for it.

I just had to share that I felt like this : all afternoon!

[Attached Mama]

Originally Posted by PreggieUBA2C

I think I asked the same question here a long while ago. I have made many blunders of the same sort as the ones shared here, and have read the pbs milestones specifically to ascertain how to communicate with others about what their dc are likely doing.

While I was chatting with friend on the phone, she exclaimed to her ds (sweetly), "What are you doing? You're TWO! You just opened the door? Are you finished sleeping?" I did some mental acrobatics to figure out the "you're two" part and assumed that she must have meant that he needed to sleep longer or that he was already aware that he wasn't allowed to open that door (which didn't make sense to me either, but seemed somewhat possible given my friend's parenting philosophy).

She then asked me when my dc started turning door-handles, which I took as pertaining to the subject, but not to what just happened. I told her that once they can reach them, they open them. This is early also, which she knows, because they are all 95th and higher percentiles for growth, so reaching the handles happens somewhere in the range of 13-17 months (varied torso and arm length).

She wasn't impressed and told me that her dd didn't open a door until she was 3.5 yrs old and that it isn't usual for children to do so until about three or so. I had no idea. I hadn't even considered it in terms of milestones until she pointed it out as such. Ooops...

Then last night we were talking about the dangerous jumpers in our home and I told her about the only rule I've ever made that limited acquisition of physical skill, which was for ds3. It was that he was only allowed to jump off of the seventh stair and no higher. She asked when I made that rule, and I had to ask dh and we worked it out and surprised even ourselves when we realised that that rule went into effect when ds3 was just 18 months old.

Ds4 is currently climbing our six foot ladder efficiently and walks up and down stairs without a railing, and has been practising jumping off of 3+ft platforms and swivel stools (aaahhhh!!!!).

I shared this because she was admonishing me to not make limitations on them with this- although I'm not sure why she presumed that I do other than that we haven't been able to spend time irl together except for vacation visits for years. I used the example to illustrate the only rule I've ever made; I totally and unintentionally diminished her excitement in telling me that her 2.5 yr old is now frightening her by jumping off the second step of their stairs.

Sigh... If she were not an ece, we might talk about other things than child-rearing and milestones, but this is her interest and while I am not otherwise as apt to share as she is because of so many negative experiences I've had with that, this is our only lasting commonality. I guess that she hasn't disowned me means that she's coping at least. That and she and her family are moving across the country to live near us... I love her. She's awesome, and I don't know how to stop hurting her confidence and excitement. Maybe it will stop once she sees how we live on a daily basis because then I won't have to correct her assumptions about my mothering.

Maybe I'll start a thread about that and stop hijacking...

ETA: I usually just ask her and say nothing about my own dc unless unrelated, but she called really late and my filter was full. Ugh, now I have lots of work to do...

Now see, these sort of things amaze me because while my 3 yr old is incredibly advanced mentally, she's not too far off on motor skills. Sometimes I think she's slow on them but I guess she's only a *bit* advanced haha. She has been turning knobs for a while - but prob right before 3 maybe.

I think maybe with knobs it sometimes depends on the type. The modern handle looking ones on lightweight modern doors are MUCH easier for kids to open than the turning round ones. DD could do the handle ones at 18 mos - you know, pull down and pull open door. Having to wrap her hand around the round knob and turn and pull all at once with a heavier old farmhouse door took much longer to master. Espec if they were old doors that sometimes "stick". Tho I'm sure there are kids here who did those long before 18mos too lol

I don't think my dd will EVER think of jumping off the 7th stair tho LOL. She is SO cautious about physical things and hates to attempt any physical thing she can't do perfectly. For example, she ran around the house pushing a little wicker chair and picking it up mid motion to turn corners - for several months before she ever walked on her own. Then she went from a non-walker to walking everywhere and running inside about a week.

[Attached Mama]

Originally Posted by Casha'sMommy

Just had to share, after reading all the posts about the reactions of others, etc.

Today we took dd to a music store to "play" with pianos and inquire about lessons in the near future. (she's 2.75 yo now and we're thinking in 6-18 mos we'll start some lessons.)
The part I want to share:
For the first time ever our inquiry about music instruction for a deaf, cochlear implanted, and gifted child was met with nothing more than an eagerness to help the clueless parents.
I haven't felt so good about music in a very long time. Most people we talk to treat dd like a deaf kid instead of just addressing the fact that she loves music and actually seems to have a talent for it.

I just had to share that I felt like this : all afternoon!

Wow! That's really awesome!!

[lolar2]

Originally Posted by Attached Mama

Now see, these sort of things amaze me because while my 3 yr old is incredibly advanced mentally, she's not too far off on motor skills. Sometimes I think she's slow on them but I guess she's only a *bit* advanced haha. She has been turning knobs for a while - but prob right before 3 maybe.

I think maybe with knobs it sometimes depends on the type. The modern handle looking ones on lightweight modern doors are MUCH easier for kids to open than the turning round ones. DD could do the handle ones at 18 mos - you know, pull down and pull open door. Having to wrap her hand around the round knob and turn and pull all at once with a heavier old farmhouse door took much longer to master. Espec if they were old doors that sometimes "stick". Tho I'm sure there are kids here who did those long before 18mos too lol

I don't think my dd will EVER think of jumping off the 7th stair tho LOL. She is SO cautious about physical things and hates to attempt any physical thing she can't do perfectly. For example, she ran around the house pushing a little wicker chair and picking it up mid motion to turn corners - for several months before she ever walked on her own. Then she went from a non-walker to walking everywhere and running inside about a week.

That's a good point. DS has been opening door handles since he was about 12 months old. He has known for at least that long what round door knobs are for, and how they work, but he still can't physically open them.

[SeekingJoy]

Originally Posted by PreggieUBA2C

I told her that once they can reach them, they open them. This is early also, which she knows, because they are all 95th and higher percentiles for growth, so reaching the handles happens somewhere in the range of 13-17 months (varied torso and arm length).

She wasn't impressed and told me that her dd didn't open a door until she was 3.5 yrs old and that it isn't usual for children to do so until about three or so. I had no idea. I hadn't even considered it in terms of milestones until she pointed it out as such. Ooops...

Kids can't open doors as soon as they can reach them? Really? I wish someone would tell mine. Deadbolts, too. And "kid proof" latches.

When DS got into the med cabinet one time when he was 2.5, Poison Control directed me to put our medications in a lock box. Um, DS got a lockbox toy when he was 25 months old. Maybe if I used a combination lock and kept the code a secret, but otherwise not helpful.

Originally Posted by PreggieUBA2C

but she called really late and my filter was full. Ugh, now I have lots of work to do...

OT, but I love this phrase. My filter often gets full.

[greenmamapagan]

Wow, the door know thing is really blowing my mind. It's normal for kids to take that long to work out how to do it? Really? I don't even remember when DD started doing it, it didn't seem important *scratches head*

[PreggieUBA2C]

Yes, and about the door knob thing. I completely forgot to mention the obvious: they all opened round knobs before they could reach them all from the floor. They just pushed objects they could stand on to do so.

Actually, ds3 was earliest and as soon as he was crawling- I mean right then for the first time- he crawled over to a cubic basket, turned it over and promptly pushed it to the door and opened it. It was as if he'd been waiting all that time just to do that and the instant it was possible he exhaled his relief and did it. He was five months old.

With the crawling door opener I had time to run and catch him because I could hear him pushing things up to the doors. The others didn't open most doors until they could reach them on foot so we installed hooks on all of our doors (waaaay up high) both for keeping them closed and open, respectively.

It took until ds4 for us to install cupboard catches because they were f no use before. Now, in such a small space where I can see them everywhere from wherever I am, we have them to buy me time to scoot across the cabin.

I've never had any other use for baby/child-proofing and often joke with dh about how nobody will ever bring their little ones over here. Our 15 month old was just cutting oat squares with his 3 yr old brother- with real knives... And they all use scissors- not safety ones, but real ones (and sometimes I catch them running with them too) and they are so adept at using them that I regularly see them talking to one another, not looking at what they are cutting and still cutting on their lines. I can't believe I just admitted this. If I'm flamed I'll remove it. That's your only warning.

Soooooo, I am clearly NOT the best person to ask about the apparent door knob milestone...

[Attached Mama]

Originally Posted by PreggieUBA2C

Yes, and about the door knob thing. I completely forgot to mention the obvious: they all opened round knobs before they could reach them from the floor. They just pushed objects they could stand on to do so.

Actually, ds3 was earliest and as soon as he was crawling- I mean right then for the first time- he crawled over to a cubic basket, turned it over and promptly pushed it to the door and opened it. It was as if he'd been waiting all that time just to do that and the instant it was possible he exhaled his relief and did it. He was five months old.

With the crawling door opener I had time to run and catch him because I could hear him pushing things up to the doors. The others didn't open doors until they could reach them on foot so we installed hooks on all of our doors (waaaay up high) both for keeping them closed and open, respectively.

Soooooo, I am clearly NOT the best person to ask about the apparent door knob milestone...

This is soooooooo interesting to me LOL. I can't imagine a 5 mo old doing that. Now I know how others feel about my dd's verbal and thinking skills. I think she was 8 or 10 mos when she finally decided to crawl... LOL Like I said, she takes her time on the physical things.

[no5no5]

As Attached Mama said, it definitely does depend on the type (at least for most kids). My DD can certainly open doors with a handle. She can't turn the doorknobs in our current house, but in all fairness I guess I should say that they do stick a bit. And in the house she was in until she was 2 1/2 there were no doorknobs to practice on. Or, yes, there were doorknobs, but none of the doors were ever closed and even if they were, the knobs were non-functional.

DD is also the very cautious type. She does not try something until she's sure of it. I guess that's a good thing, since she comes from a long line of very klutzy women. But then, every once in a great while she does surprise me with something outrageously foolish. Which is why we do have a gate at the top of the stairs, and why I hold her hand tightly when we are walking near bodies of water.

Anyway, I guess I am tired and rambling. I guess I am just trying to reiterate that i think the PBS thing is pretty accurate and those of you whose kids were turning doorknobs as babies have future surgeons (or mechanics, etc.) on your hands.

[Casha'sMommy]

Originally Posted by Attached Mama

Wow! That's really awesome!!

THANKS!
I'm beaming!

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by PreggieUBA2C

She wasn't impressed and told me that her dd didn't open a door until she was 3.5 yrs old and that it isn't usual for children to do so until about three or so. I had no idea. I hadn't even considered it in terms of milestones until she pointed it out as such. Ooops...

These are the things that are most interesting to me about other children. When people tell me how their child has never tried things - like opening doors - I'm amazed. My kids try everything as soon as they think they may be big enough to reach it. DS got out of our house when he was 18 months old, and a neighbor found him. He'd finally gotten tall enough to open the screen door on his tiptoes, and we didn't realize it. He figured out the lock on the screen door shortly after.

I was speaking to someone recently who told me her nearly 4-year-old is still in a crib and has never attempted to get out of it. She just sits until one of her parents come get her. With toys, my kids will play, but that they wouldn't try to get out once they realized they could is so odd to me.

[staceychev]

Originally Posted by VanessaS

I made the mistake recently of responding to a thread about "what to do with 2 yo after puzzles?" I suggested dominoes, UNO, mazes, tangrams, and board games. The thread went for another 5 pages without anyone responding to my entry. It took me a while to figure out why. Oops.

Hey Vanessa, just because people don't respond to your post directly doesn't mean they didn't pay attention! In fact, your post gave me great ideas for my DD. We play lots of board games at home and she plays with tangrams, but I totally forgot about UNO.

And, with regard to the OP--I totally had that reaction to the PBS site, too. DD has been counting to 20 without help since she was about 2, and can count to 100 with just a little assistance (ie, "What comes after 39?" "Well, thirties are threes, what comes after 3?" "Four! Forty! Forty-one, forty-two...").

[JollyGG]

Okay - as to doorknobs my kids opened them as soon as they could reach them. And the child proof doorknobs were completely useless. The first time my son opened a door for the first time by himself was before he was one. I know by the time he was three I was at my wits end because I was having trouble keeping him out of his new baby sisters room at nap time. My daughter, who so far hasn't shown overt signs of giftedness regularly opens our heavy sliding glass door to let the dogs in or out and she is not yet three.

Heck my daughter was a late talker. So I know at one she would pull a chair over to the counter. Climb up. Get a sippy cup, get a lid and stopper out of the drawer, grab the milk and bring it all over to me. (It always seemed to me like learning to ask for milk would have been easier, but whatever). So I know she was opening regular bedroom doors at 1.

Hmmm. Mabey my daughter isn't as "normal" as I thought she was.

[expecting-joy]

Attached Mama: That is so wonderful!

Regarding the doorknobs: We live in an old house, so we don't have anything but old round knobs and they were turning them very early (definitely well before a year). Ditto the comments about moving stools and using tools. They carried stools all over as "infants." Of course they were opening screw-cap water bottles before a year old, too.

There are lots of older houses and building around us with far too many coats of paint and shifting foundations, so I have to agree that the sticky doors took longer.

But, yeah, early physical skills development is interesting. We didn't really childproof much either, except for poisonous things.

[expecting-joy]

The counting thing is funny. Dd#1 could count to 100 at 18 months, but when counting objects often skipped an object or two. Dd#2 counts to 20 at 2 yrs. but never misses an object counting. She's always accurate, even up to twenty.

Dd#1 sang 100+ songs in all their verses (including the alphabet song) before 18 months. Dd32 knows all her letters, and knows the song, but can't really sing yet at 2 yrs.

[readytobedone]

Originally Posted by staceychev

And, with regard to the OP--I totally had that reaction to the PBS site, too. DD has been counting to 20 without help since she was about 2, and can count to 100 with just a little assistance (ie, "What comes after 39?" "Well, thirties are threes, what comes after 3?" "Four! Forty! Forty-one, forty-two...").

ha! this is funny because (i'm the OP btw, this thread has gotten pretty big ) just this morning i was trying to get DD to focus on climbing the stairs. she has a tendency to get sidetracked and talk about dust on the hardwood stairs ("dirty, wash, mommy, wash!") so i thought, hey, i'll count each step as we get to it and maybe that will expedite things...

well, i got past 10 and thought, she won't know these but i'll keep counting. so i said 13 and the next step she goes "14!"

how the hell did she know that? :

ETA: with the doorknobs, all ours are knobs, not handles. our house was built in 1950 and most of the knobs are original--they're like glass?? sorry, i'm terrible with building stuff. constantly asking DH if something is a screw or a bolt when DD asks. pretty soon she'll be correcting me, i fear!

[Ceili]

The 3.5 year old not opening doorknobs blows me away. My ds was never physically daring. He likes to jump, but he's always wanted someone there to hold his hand or spot him in someway... which is good because we have open rails on our second floor balcony.

He's been opening doors since he could reach the knob and dismantling "child proofing" devices pretty early on. I put a hook and eye latch on one closet that I needed him to stay out of. It was well out of reach, even with a stool.... one day I caught him in the hallway with a broom pushing on the hook to get it unlatched. I've since moved everything I need him to stay out of to the garage or the outside storage closets. We have a chime on the exterior doors so I know when those open.

[LynnS6]

I'm only qualified to judge the language development section, but from what I've seen, yes it's accurate for typical development.

No, most 1 year olds can't count to 5 or identify letters. Most 2 years olds can't. Ds was 3 when the lightbulb went off that the ABC song = the letters. He knew a lot of letters, he knew the song, but he'd never connected the two.

Dd's preschool teachers were amazed that she could not only count to 45 at age 3, but that she could accurately identify the numbers associated with 45. (BTW, she's 4 and she still sometimes reverses them when reading, so she's not perfect. This morning she told me she was 74 pounds after weighing herself on the scale! Nope, she's 47 (still pretty hefty for a 4 1/2 year old, but I don't have to sign her up for weight loss classes).)

Note that most 2 year olds CAN tell you they want 2 cookies, but they may not be able to accurately link the number 3 with the number of objects. Or count off squares on a board game. I remember being surprised watching ds playing chutes and ladders with a friend at age 4 and the friend had a very hard time keeping track of the squares. Ds consistently had to tell him whether it was right.

And the variation is pretty wide. Ds had a hard time with door knobs and other motor skills things (the child couldn't pedal trike until he was 4 1/2), so I'm always a bit amazed at kids who are either very much on target or a little advanced for motor skills. Dd learned to ride a 2 wheel bike at 4, ds at 7. Very different ends of the 'normal' continuum.

Originally Posted by joensally

Yes, it's accurate as it takes into account the broad spectrum of abilities and exposures of the full range of kids across socio-ec etc lines.

MDC skews toward a certain type of mother/parent (various combinations of higher education, higher relative socio-ec, high critical thinking skills), so many of the children here, and of posters' IRL peer groups, are going to have a multitude of advantages that lead to earlier achievement of milestones than the actual norm.

:!

[Tigerchild]

It seems on the mark for me. All of my kids have been cognitively "ahead" than the average for their age, but I understand that A) both parents are/were gifted in our case, B) we are financially and time-wise to offer many enrichment opportunities.

I have been volunteering in the kindergarten classes at my DD's school (she's in a magnet program housed in a school that also services a very large lower income and ESL community plus is the central point for the special needs programs in our district). It's been interesting for me to see the huge spectrum of kids that come in, and quite rewarding to work with them. It's definitely opened my eyes to what a wide spectrum of school-ready ability levels there are, at least in the first part of the year. I have been a preschool teacher and a nanny, but that was primarily for wealthy, well-educated parents--so I still only saw my highly-enriched-environment perspective.

What I have noticed is that many kids who don't identify numbers/colors/shapes, ect. don't take that long to catch up. For many of them it's not that they aren't *capable*, it's just that there was no reason for them to have learned that in their early childhood environment. And it's not always because their parents are crappy and uncaring, either.

So I'm more careful now about extrapolating why any given child isn't performing up to my kids' standard. If they can't open doorknobs, well, have they had many opportunities to? If they can't count to 10 yet, is it because they're not cognitively capable of doing so or is it because they were too busy with other things or nobody thought to teach them to count?

I had a pediatrician freak out at me when I answered honestly that my DD didn't know how to ride a bike (I think this was at the 3 year wellchild visit). Well, we've got a gravel driveway, and at that point in time we didn't have the extra money for a bike just to make sure we hit all the milestones correctly. When we finally got around to getting one (at her request for her birthday present at 4) it took her 1 minute to figure out how to use the pedals and brakes. For many children entering Kindy, academic skills are similar.

[Aufilia]

On the topic of doorknobs, I've been surprised to notice how much the height of doorknobs varies from house to house, and even within a single house. The knobs were very low in our old house and DD could open all the doors around age 2. But it was another year before she was tall enough to open the doors in my parents' house. In our current house the knobs downstairs are all lower than the ones upstairs, and the one in the main bathroom is the highest in the whole house. DD can totally unlock and open the front door to the house, but still regularly gets herself stuck in the bathroom.