Modified measles

[ema-adama]

http://books.google.com/books?id=LGO...sult#PPA383,M1

This is Moffets Pediatric Infectious Diseases

I summerised as the writing is very small.... but facinating. The table is handy reading.

And now I understand it, kind of.

There are various types of modified measls.
Infants older than 6 months who are no longer fully protected via maternal antibodies, but still protected to an extent, develop modified measles (a milder form) with maternal antibodies prolonging the incubation.
It is similar to the measles experienced by children who were given immune globulin.

There is also different types of vaccine modified.
The dead virus (no longer in use) caused a very unusual disease called atypical measles.

The live virus modified measles vaccine creates a shorter and milder form of measles, similar to what is seen clinically from immune globulin.

Does anyone know why it was decided that vaccines were a better way to protect children than offereing immune globulin?

Now I need to understand more. I remember reading somewhere that it is not necessarily true that the disease is milder if you have been vaccinated.

[Gitti]

When they say the disease is milder in a vaccinated child, they are playing a mind game. How can anyone say my child would have had a milder case if he were vaccinated? There is absolutely no way to tell since every child is an individual.

imo - The fact that they use that type of brainwashing shows me that they have no faith in their own vaccine program and it has to be held up by lies.

[shuttlt]

Originally Posted by Gitti

When they say the disease is milder in a vaccinated child, they are playing a mind game. How can anyone say my child would have had a milder case if he were vaccinated? There is absolutely no way to tell since every child is an individual.

Nobody in the world can tell you what will happen for sure for your child. They can't tell you for sure that the splinter in your childs hand won't be carrying tetanus and they can't tell you for sure that your childs measles would have been worse without the vaccine.

An answerable question would be, "on average, is measles better or worse in someone who has been vaccinated". What the answer is is currently beyond me. I guess that's one of the differences between doctors and parents, the doctors care about the averages, the parents care about their specific child.

[mamakay]

The effect of the vaccine making the disease milder is very small. As a general rule with measles (and all the live vaccines), either the vax works, or it doesn't. People who still get the disease after being vaxed usually get cases as bad (on average) as the unvaxed.

[shuttlt]

Originally Posted by mamakay

The effect of the vaccine making the disease milder is very small. As a general rule with measles (and all the live vaccines), either the vax works, or it doesn't. People who still get the disease after being vaxed usually get cases as bad (on average) as the unvaxed.

So at an individual level this isn't anything worth worrying about? I guess this only goes to validate what Gitti said.

[mamakay]

Yeah, the effect is too small (for the live vaccines) to really count. Especially in the post-vaccine era, where people who catch measles will be older, which makes measles more severe in and of itself.

[Gitti]

I could have mentioned what was recorded by Dr. Buchwald in Germany when he kept records in one community during a small pox epidemic.

The vaccinated patients that contracted small pox had what appeared to be much milder cases.

But -

Those who were vaccinated 3 times all died.
Those who were vaccinated 2 times had many deaths, some survivors.
Those who were vaccinated 1 time had some deaths, more survivors.
Those who were never vaccinated had by far the fewest deaths. There were actually only two.

So, the question is: did the unvaccinated have the worst cases or the vaccinated? What would you say to that?

The book is Vaccines: A Business Based On Fear

And Belgium, the country that at the same time decided not to vaccinate it's citizens, had no deaths in the whole county.

[Delicateflower]

Originally Posted by Gitti

I could have mentioned what was recorded by Dr. Buchwald in Germany when he kept records in one community during a small pox epidemic.

The vaccinated patients that contracted small pox had what appeared to be much milder cases.

But -

Those who were vaccinated 3 times all died.
Those who were vaccinated 2 times had many deaths, some survivors.
Those who were vaccinated 1 time had some deaths, more survivors.
Those who were never vaccinated had by far the fewest deaths. There were actually only two.

So, the question is: did the unvaccinated have the worst cases or the vaccinated? What would you say to that?

The book is Vaccines: A Business Based On Fear

And Belgium, the country that at the same time decided not to vaccinate it's citizens, had no deaths in the whole county.

And... then the vaccine eradicated the disease. What a brilliant triumph of modern medicine. : Here's hoping we can send scourges like measles the same way with high enough vaccination rates. Did you see the huge drop in measles mortality with the recent massive vaccination campaign? 91% in Africa between 2000 and 2007.

[Deborah]

Well, the phenomena described with smallpox vaccine might be true. There is an interesting article by Dr. Incao about this vaccine, you can probably turn it up with a search.

He talks about the immune response with this vaccine, which is pretty straightforward. They stick you with a bunch of small, short needles with the goop (horse pus or something like that) on them, breaking the skin. People react with a swelling and inflammation in the jabbed spot which is supposed to last for a little while and then heal, leaving a scar.

Sometimes, when someone is given a smallpox vax, there won't be a reaction. Dr. Incao says that this suggests an inadequate immune response to the challenge. Unfortunately, the usual response by the medical people is another jab and if that doesn't work, another. Each time the already inadequate immune system is challenged and each time it probably has an even less adequate response. [I have a friend who got three smallpox vaxes due to inadequate reactions. She eventually developed chronic fatique, which is, apparently, an immune system disease.]

Now, let us imagine this person whose immune system was funky to begin with and has undergone three failed smallpox vaccines. Along comes the real disease. What are the chances of an effective immune response?

There is the story of Leicester, too. This town mostly quit vaxing for smallpox and depended on quarantine and a good fever hospital. They actually paid exposed people to stay home until they either got sick or it became clear they were not going to get sick. One of the interesting bits in this story, is there recover rate from smallpox, which was 95%. The usual rate was 66%. Probably just better nursing.
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/pag...57&pageindex=1

[ema-adama]

Originally Posted by shuttlt

An answerable question would be, "on average, is measles better or worse in someone who has been vaccinated". What the answer is is currently beyond me. I guess that's one of the differences between doctors and parents, the doctors care about the averages, the parents care about their specific child.

I think that summerises it beautifully. That is the difference. Hence parents needing the information if they want to make an informed decision, as after all we are responsible for our child's health in a way that a doctor never will be.

I am still going to look into the whole milder case thing, although I have no idea how they can know what makes it milder out of all the options that are available.... but still, worth seeing if I can dig anything up.

[anewmama]

Originally Posted by Gitti

And Belgium, the country that at the same time decided not to vaccinate it's citizens, had no deaths in the whole county.

No deaths due to smallpox in Belgium?