Gentle Dicipline for strong willed children - Page 6

[Talula Fairie]

Originally Posted by labdogs42

That's pretty much what happened to me. He cried and wailed about it for about and hour, but he did know that he had made the choice. Sure the results were kind of the same -- 1 hour of screaming, but I think my son learned something from it. I still think offering your kids choices could help.

I still offer. They just don't like my choices

[sewchris2642]

Originally Posted by Talula Fairie

I still offer. They just don't like my choices

Of course not. They're strong willed children. And they will still protest every time even long after they are secretly happy that you are setting boundries and giving clear, defined, limited choices. That's the way these children are wired. And you won't see results any time soon. It could take months, even a year before you look back and wonder when things got easier. And then they will find something else to make your life harder.

[Talula Fairie]

Originally Posted by sewchris2642

Of course not. They're strong willed children. And they will still protest every time even long after they are secretly happy that you are setting boundries and giving clear, defined, limited choices. That's the way these children are wired. And you won't see results any time soon. It could take months, even a year before you look back and wonder when things got easier. And then they will find something else to make your life harder.

This is somehow reassuring to me. Like maybe all the work I am doing in working so hard on GD IS doing something (even though I feel like it's not most of the time).

[labdogs42]

Originally Posted by sewchris2642

Of course not. They're strong willed children. And they will still protest every time even long after they are secretly happy that you are setting boundries and giving clear, defined, limited choices. That's the way these children are wired. And you won't see results any time soon. It could take months, even a year before you look back and wonder when things got easier. And then they will find something else to make your life harder.

This is totally what I would have said if I could think that coherently! That's why I told the Dollar Store story. That wasn't the only time that happened, it just was the most horrible one! All of a sudden, DS is a lot better about shopping. It seems like it took forever, but he's only 4, so I guess it wasn't really that long! Hang in there and eventually things will get better!

[skueppers]

Originally Posted by Talula Fairie

This is somehow reassuring to me. Like maybe all the work I am doing in working so hard on GD IS doing something (even though I feel like it's not most of the time).

I've never found that much of anything had a short-term effect on my kids. My son went through a phase of hair pulling, biting, and hitting that was over a year long, and I eventually realized that there was absolutely nothing I could do to get him to stop his behavior. All I could do was to try to keep him from hurting people as much as possible and try to teach him alternative techniques for meeting his own needs so that eventually, he might be able to implement them.

For what it's worth, I'm entirely confident that, short of terrorizing him by beating him within an inch of his life, there do not exist discipline techniques that would actually have gotten him to stop hurting people in the short term. It seems to me that GD techniques have the advantage in this type of situation that they do not damage the relationship between parent and child, and do not escalate -- you don't wind up punishing the child more and more for behavior that they really just need to grow out of.

[sewchris2642]

Originally Posted by skueppers

I've never found that much of anything had a short-term effect on my kids. My son went through a phase of hair pulling, biting, and hitting that was over a year long, and I eventually realized that there was absolutely nothing I could do to get him to stop his behavior. All I could do was to try to keep him from hurting people as much as possible and try to teach him alternative techniques for meeting his own needs so that eventually, he might be able to implement them.

For what it's worth, I'm entirely confident that, short of terrorizing him by beating him within an inch of his life, there do not exist discipline techniques that would actually have gotten him to stop hurting people in the short term. It seems to me that GD techniques have the advantage in this type of situation that they do not damage the relationship between parent and child, and do not escalate -- you don't wind up punishing the child more and more for behavior that they really just need to grow out of.

My goal with Erica was to teach her self-control so that eventually she would be able to control her own actions. I started with giving her the illusion of self-control by limiting her choices. Also time outs did work with Erica. By removing her from the out of control situation, she was able to feel in control and then eventually gain control of her own actions and feelings. And usually when she did lose control, the underlying cause was tiredness. So time out accomplished 2 things: it removed her from the situation and gave her an opportunity of a nap without my telling her she needed a nap. If I had done that, she would not have taken the nap she needed.

[doublyblessed]

sorry i don't have time to read all of the pages here in this thread...but i wanted to join the thread. i need help. i'm floundering more often than not the past 16 mos. since my ds was born...

its like 2 steps forward, 1 step backward for me...i'm hating myself and live w/ such remorse and sorrow. yet i love my true essence...i'm very loving and nurturing...i can be so fun and playful and patient...i was always so great w/ kids...they did not get on my nerves at all until i became a parent and had to deal w/ my dd's half sister when my dd was an infant...then this monster came out of me. now the monster has risen again since my ds was born last november. wth is happening to me!? maybe i just am overwhelmed when i have young babies??? and/or having a load on my shoulders w/ 2 young dc...just being overwhelmed w/ it, having a spirited child???

i am totally for GD...i'm all for unconditional parenting, connective parenting (GREAT books, btw)... but too often i'm horribly reactive...sometimes downright monstrous & i have such great remorse for all those times...my dd is now 6.5 & we are such a vicious cycle...i don't know how to remain calm yet firm and patient all the times she is pushing me way past my limit. i have never been a patient person myself...am working on it. so it makes this GDing all the more of a challenge for me.

i want sooo much to break this cycle but i keep slipping up. i NEVEr thought i'd even raise my voice to my dd and esp. spank her as i completely do NOT agree with it. it only makes things worse betw. us and for her heart.

people/books say just take a time out for myself even if she won't go cool down on her bed or whatever...even if she won't go run off her energy or bike or whatever and she's driving me nuts. : (sometimes she will refuse to go release that energy and be even more nasty/difficult). so the books say take a time out for myself...deep breathes...lock myself in the bathroom if i have to. but this is easier said than done for me. i keep on forgetting somehow in the moment of my anger/annoyance and lose it on her again.

i don't want to 'lose' my dd's trust although i know i've surely damaged it too many a time. so what to do...i'm going to take a DBT (dialectical behavior therapy) and hopefully i'll learn something beside breathe and take my own time out...(although often my dd won't let me be alone to even do this!!! she can be so rude!!!!!!!)

so how to break this vicious cycle?! its like i'm nice...she's nice...she's nasty...i'm calm/nice...she's nice...she's nasty...i'm nasty...she's nice...i'm nasty...she's nice, she's nasty... this is just horrible!!!!!!!!!!

i'm working on this but i feel like such a failure than a success. i have turned out to be a sh*t mom to her. i'm beginning to think that i am still suffering from PPD since i have a young ds and when my dd was a baby her half-sis also drove me batty. PPD again then...it could be, i suppose. i also struggle w/ a mood disorder/possible bipolar...i'm on a mood stabilizer but i still struggle w/ patience...

anyway. i am so frustrated w/ my self. i want to stop getting so flustered w/ her when she is like that... replacing the labels w/ positive ones is not easy to honor when i feel that feeling. :any other suggestions??? (besides time out for myself or breathing or cold water poured on myself!?) guess i could go jump in a hot steamy shower and cry...punching pillows or screaming into them doesn't cut it for me. i need to throw a plate or something. i need some extreme anger management. anyway... help.

ps-i'm also a solo parenting mama. my mother isn't here often (she lives w/ us) and the kids' father's don't help/aren't involved. my dd is in school half a day and she takes art classes but still it isn't enough of a break for me. ugh. this is not easy being a parent!!! CAN PPD last this long (16 mos.) and IS it possible that the older sibling is the one who mama gets flustered by...not the babies??? cuz my babies don't get me in a huff and i don't feel overwhelmed/annoyed by them. even my little toddler boy. (you know how people say PPD symptoms are ie. thoughts of hurting your baby...etc. well i don't have that. not for the babies...)hmmm.

i want help from a therapist but i fear they'd take my kids. i know there are programs out there for parents who want to be gentler w/ their kids who have been awful w/ them at times...i know there are many more of us out there who believe in GD but resort to issues from our childhoods in reaction.

ok i'm babbling. i'm sorry. please don't flame me. i just wanted to join as i know i'm not alone and need support and any advice that may help me to remain cool and calm as lake placid when my dd tests the waters.

[doublyblessed]

oh noooooooooooo!!! so it is really and truly US that need to learn (and quick as we can) to keep our cool. oh man............ oh and i truly believe that part of my dd's 'tude has to do w/ this nasty cycle we are in...when i'm nicer for a few days, she softens...she still does the push/pull thing though. its so frustrating. i need to keep my cool for more than 3 days though...to really undo a lot of this rough edge going on. she punched me in the middle of my back yesterday...it hurt like a b*tch!!!

Originally Posted by sewchris2642

Of course not. They're strong willed children. And they will still protest every time even long after they are secretly happy that you are setting boundries and giving clear, defined, limited choices. That's the way these children are wired. And you won't see results any time soon. It could take months, even a year before you look back and wonder when things got easier. And then they will find something else to make your life harder.

[Funny Face]

I haven't made it through the whole thread yet but...

I wanted to give you a big because it sounds like you really have your hands full and being pregnant only makes it more exhausting!

I've got a 3 year old and a 3 month old an parenting really got difficult when I was pregnant and during the postpartum stage. Any patience I once had, or clarity of mind to figure out discipline issues was all used up. I hope you have someone supporting you and helping you through this intense time! If not IRL then here.



To everyone thanks for posting. I'm loving these ideas/suggestions for myself too. :

[oceanbaby]

I haven't read the replies, but I wanted to reassure you that you aren't "doing it wrong." With minor slips here and there, I have really tried hard to use GD with my kids. With ds1, it was really the way to go. He really responded to talking about an issue, and even as a young toddler he was pretty reasonable about what I was asking as long as he understood why and what was going on. Punishment with him just escalated things into a bad place, and taking the time to go through it with him was always the better option.

Then ds2 came along. Very mellow and easy baby and toddler. Once he hit about 4yo, OMG. He is so strong willed. I will try to talk to him and he makes faces at me or turns his head away. He knows when he's doing something he shouldn't be, and will completely ignore me, even as I am trying to make it so he can still get what he wants. It's not until I hit a wall and lose my freaking mind that he pays any attention whatsoever, but this is not the way I want to parent! I have gotten to the point with him where I have to say things like "You are cleaning this up, and you aren't leaving this room until you do." This is something I NEVER would have said to ds1. Ds2 will wail and scream and cry, and then after awhile, he'll clean it up. (God forbid we're on any sort of a schedule.) But again, I don't want things to be like this. I try to sit down and help him, I try to make it a game, but he's not having any of it. It's his way or the highway.

Anyhow, my point is that kids really are different, and while I think being respectful and kind and compassionate is important with every child, some of the typical GD "techniques" are not at all effective with every personality.

And yes, I do admit to having an "agenda" when it comes to parenting my kids. I do want them to be polite, I do want them to clean up their messes, and I do want them to be respectful. For ds1, this meant having a heart to heart with him about how I feel when he is disrespectful. For ds2, it seems to be letting him scream and cry until he abruptly stops and is all of a sudden ready to be reasonable again.

[funkymamajoy]

Originally Posted by doublyblessed

oh noooooooooooo!!! so it is really and truly US that need to learn (and quick as we can) to keep our cool. oh man............ oh and i truly believe that part of my dd's 'tude has to do w/ this nasty cycle we are in...when i'm nicer for a few days, she softens...she still does the push/pull thing though. its so frustrating. i need to keep my cool for more than 3 days though...to really undo a lot of this rough edge going on. she punched me in the middle of my back yesterday...it hurt like a b*tch!!!

It's all on us because we are the only ones that we can change. You can't change another person. We can only change our actions. Some children just seem to bring out the worst in ourselves, usually because we see our worse traits mirrored in them. And then we react in the heat of the moment. Practice, practice, practice and roll play outside of those moments so you don't react in the same old way in the future. But like everything else in life, it takes lots of practice and lots of time. Don't beat yourself up in the mean time. Appologize when needed.

[doublyblessed]

exactamundo. thank you for your support. : sometimes giant steps...sometimes baby steps...but i'm getting there. i'm going to start a new thread on non-compliance and maybe another thread on triggers and calming techniques for us.

Originally Posted by funkymamajoy

It's all on us because we are the only ones that we can change. You can't change another person. We can only change our actions. Some children just seem to bring out the worst in ourselves, usually because we see our worse traits mirrored in them. And then we react in the heat of the moment. Practice, practice, practice and roll play outside of those moments so you don't react in the same old way in the future. But like everything else in life, it takes lots of practice and lots of time. Don't beat yourself up in the mean time. Appologize when needed.

[sewchris2642]

Originally Posted by funkymamajoy

It's all on us because we are the only ones that we can change. You can't change another person. We can only change our actions. Some children just seem to bring out the worst in ourselves, usually because we see our worse traits mirrored in them. And then we react in the heat of the moment. Practice, practice, practice and roll play outside of those moments so you don't react in the same old way in the future. But like everything else in life, it takes lots of practice and lots of time. Don't beat yourself up in the mean time. Appologize when needed.

This post isn't from Funkymamajoy but from Sewchris2642. Joy is my dd and I'm using her computer because mine is infected with a malware. Probably is toast. Sorry for the confusion.

[Talula Fairie]

I made a post updating you all about my GD efforts.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1062196

I can sum it up with one sentance:

Darned if it doesn't work!

[The4OfUs]

Originally Posted by Talula Fairie

I can sum it up with one sentance:

Darned if it doesn't work!

[labdogs42]

Originally Posted by doublyblessed

oh noooooooooooo!!! so it is really and truly US that need to learn (and quick as we can) to keep our cool. oh man............ oh and i truly believe that part of my dd's 'tude has to do w/ this nasty cycle we are in...when i'm nicer for a few days, she softens...she still does the push/pull thing though. its so frustrating. i need to keep my cool for more than 3 days though...to really undo a lot of this rough edge going on. she punched me in the middle of my back yesterday...it hurt like a b*tch!!!

Have you read "How to Talk so Kids will Listen and Listen so Kids Will talk" yet? That book is fantastic. I also like Scream-Free Parenting. To answer your question from your other post, I'm no psychiatrist, but I would think that PPD could last 16 months and more. Just because your babies aren't driving you crazy doesn't mean you don't have PPD, or just some form of depression or anxiety in general. I'd just go talk to your Primary Care doctor about your stress levels. They can help. You don't have to go to a therapist to get meds for anxiety or depression.