GAPS/SCD mamas - Page 2

[momofmine]

Originally Posted by nicolelynn

he wants me to try a high fiber protocol for a month.

Eeek, I don't know about that. I know that's the conventional thinking, but I have to say that I finally figured out that we do better with LESS fiber, a lot less. Check out The Fiber Menace. I would be wary of doing high fiber.

Hi LTB!
You need to check out the gapsguide.com under the printables section. She has a guide to GAPS underwhelm, which gives some steps for working your way towards the intro. There is also a step by step intro instructions there too. I think you can also look on the GAPS help yahoo group, and see under Files, and they have several things like that out.
NCM does not give a lot of instruction on intro in her book. Basically here's what you do for the beginning: Make a meat or bone broth first. Then start off with the broth, add veggies and cook until very done and tender. Turn it off, add some fresh garlic into the soup. Drink ginger tea between soup. Next step is to add in one raw egg at a time., increasing as she is doing okay with it.

I have found it very hard in the beginning especially, to keep my blood sugar up, and I was exhausted, shaky, etc, until someone said, just eat very frequently for those three days. Like literally every two hours or less if you have to. Gotta run right now but I'll b back tomorrow.

[LionTigerBear]

Thanks for the links! I always have blood sugar issues (well, now.) I have to eat every couple hours anyway. And I have been eating SO much honey. I know it's too much. So yeah, I'm not looking forward to the intro diet, or the gradual introduction of foods. But I'll deal with that in time.


ETA: I can't find any "GAPS Help" Yahoo group! Can anyone post a link?

[leila1213]

Originally Posted by LionTigerBear

Thanks for the links! I always have blood sugar issues (well, now.) I have to eat every couple hours anyway. And I have been eating SO much honey. I know it's too much. So yeah, I'm not looking forward to the intro diet, or the gradual introduction of foods. But I'll deal with that in time.


ETA: I can't find any "GAPS Help" Yahoo group! Can anyone post a link?

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group...ec=group&slk=9

I also second the low-fiber recommendations. GAPS has seriously healed DD's constipation issues. The Fiber Menace website is fabulous: www.fibermenace.com

[momofmine]

I feel like my problem with the early intro is getting enough fat. You add in things like olive oil, coconut oil, and ghee later on down the line, whereas those things are allowed on the SCD earlier on. I have found that I really do better with less fiber, less carbs, as long as I am getting plenty of fat. But how to get enough fat on the early intro?

[hummingmom]

Originally Posted by momofmine

I feel like my problem with the early intro is getting enough fat. You add in things like olive oil, coconut oil, and ghee later on down the line, whereas those things are allowed on the SCD earlier on. I have found that I really do better with less fiber, less carbs, as long as I am getting plenty of fat. But how to get enough fat on the early intro?

From what I've read, you're supposed to eat all the fat from the broth... so can you just use fattier cuts of meat? For instance, we seem to get a much fattier stock when we use a combination of chicken thighs and backs, rather than a whole chicken. Lamb shoulder blade chops are reasonably priced, and tend to have a lot of fat. Marrow bones would also be great... I can't find nutritional information, but IIRC marrow is very high-fat and calorically dense.

[momofmine]

Yeah, she talks about using the marrow bones. We buy a whole cow/lamb/pig at a time, so I've just been trying to use what I have in the freezer for cuts of meat. I think I do need to try and go get some marrow bones and fattier cuts. I have definitely been eating all the fat in the stock. I guess the key is just eating more and more frequently early on.

[hummingmom]

We have a similar situation; we still have a bunch of grass-fed beef in the freezer from last summer, but it's very lean, so it's hard to work it into our current way of eating. I'm going to have to work on expanding my repertoire of SCD-legal rich sauces.

Under the circumstances, do you think it would be permissible to just use what you have, and add extra fat (from the same or a similar animal) to the broth? It's not always easy to find high quality animal fat, but we've bought beef tallow from US Wellness online, and I've seen duck fat at Whole Foods.

[momofmine]

You know that is a great idea. I was wondering about duck fat, because the TF people talk about duck fat quite a bit. I will look for it at WF. Thanks!

[nicolelynn]

[QUOTE=momofmine;13392069]Eeek, I don't know about that. I know that's the conventional thinking, but I have to say that I finally figured out that we do better with LESS fiber, a lot less. Check out The Fiber Menace. I would be wary of doing high fiber.

Yeah, I know I have been researching all of that and am confused and somewhat worried. Even on WebMD (very mainstream) the suggested diets for IBS and ulcerative colitis seem to be the opposite. High fiber for IBS and low fiber for ulcerative colitis. But to me, they are both digestive disorders....

I am just willing to try it for a month since it was a Dr's suggestion that didn't involve drugs or a colonoscopy! I am still going to do it grain free. If it dosn't help or makes it worse, I will go full gear into a low-fiber GAPS diet.

But now the main thing is I got my food allergy test back. And I very allergic to eggs! I eat them all the time and they were my favorite food after cheese! Also, the test confirmed I am very allergic to dairy, so the Naturopath said I should avoid even ghee for now. I am so devastated. I don't know what I will do eating literally nothing but meat, produce, nuts and honey.

Part of me is doubting. I am down to 98 lbs and part of me says I should just eat any whole food I am not allergic to and that sounds good to me to keep my weight up. I didn't test allergic to ANY grain..surprisingly including gluten, nut or legume.
Then again I want to gear up for the long haul, knowing in a year or two I could introduce dairy and eggs back.....

[momofmine]

Wow, I don't know how tall you are, but 98 pounds does sound pretty skinny. Are you having D and losing weight? I don't know, it's so hard to know. My 9 yr old was actually losing weight too, and I was trying to do all the things like pack in the fat, trying to up his calories, and he had an absolutely voracious appetite. He would seriously eat more than my husband at one meal. But he had actually lost several pounds and he did not have any cushion to lose, he was already very skinny, and that is not normal for 9 yrs old to lose weight. I feel he just wasn't absorbing his food, because of the whole gut bacteria imbalance. But we started SCD, and he has gained steadily since. He has been on SCD for about 2 and 1/2 months, and he has gained EIGHT pounds!! :

And he is still eating mostly meat and produce. He eats no dairy, no nuts, (we've done nuts a few times, but not on a regular basis yet), no raw fruits or vegetables except for bananas and avocadoes and sucking on lemon or lime wedges. He can have eggs though. It is amazing to me though, because I am losing weight and he is gaining. Although they are both eating a lot of bananas. We are just going really slow with adding things in, and I am putting off dairy and raw stuff.

So, my point is that sometimes what you'd think might cause more weight loss can actually help weight gain if you are addressing the problem and that is what your body needs to do (whether you need to lose or gain weight).

Have you tried the SCD or GAPS intro yet at all? I just really think that is key to the healing, as opposed to jumping straight into the diet. I mean, really, we did the SCD from the intro and went very slowly, and he has steadily gained this whole time.

Have you tried any enzymes? S boulardii?

[LionTigerBear]

Yeah, my son also gained weight on the SCD.

And I also tried the high-fiber thing-- I actually did the Dr. Natura colon cleanse which involves swallowing their fiber every day. I did on top of doing the SCD diet and the "cleanse" just made me feel really icky inside and didn't have the desired affect. Just doing the diet worked much better, for me. However I didn't have the same problems you had.

It's important to keep in mind that you are not cutting out grains or certain other fiberous foods because you are allergic to them, but because they are hard to digest and if you do not digest them properly, the undigested food matter in your stomach will be toxic to you. In the GAPS book she discusses what to do if you are allergic to eggs (many people are but that can be healed) and how allergies are created by having a weak/unhealthy gut that doesn't digest food well. My son was allergic to eggs and a little bit to dairy (and me too) but he (and I) still responded positively to the SCD diet and we are no longer allergic to eggs. He also has no obvious response to dairy anymore.

[MomToEmerson]

I am crying reading all of this My 2 yo son has been constipated since starting solids and I have tried everything I knew to try... unsuccessfully. We recently started NT foods and I have been following that giving everything including tons of raw milk. He still suffers. Now, I am reading the links and crying that perhaps I have still not done the right thing, and knowing how hard it is going to be to change again I have 6 gallons of milk in the fridge, 5 lbs of raw cheese, and 5 quarts of kefir with more making.... I am doing all this and more in hopes of stopping and reversing the dreadful dental carries he also suffers from. He's had two surgeries under GA already. Now, I find that it may be bad for him too I have always felt there must be some link between his poor bowel process and disintegrating teeth, but never could find anything out. Maybe if I can do this we can heal his gut and then maybe eventually his teeth will be better too? I have ordered the book, and will look into yet another probiotic. I am so frustrated....

[LionTigerBear]

MomtoEmerson : I don't think anyone wants GAPS to be the answer-- for most of us it was our desperation for healing that brought us here. But in my experience, it really does work, so here we are again.

I remember hearing somewhere that nothing tastes as good as being healthy feels. I have to keep telling myself that. Oh, and the wasted raw milk and expensive cheese and kefir? We have that here, too. And organic chocolate syrup (so expensive) not sure what we're going to do with that . . . Sigh. But it will all be worth it.

[hummingmom]

LTB, sorry if you've already posted about this somewhere, but can I ask why you're doing GAPS this time around, if your son was previously doing well on SCD (and only partial SCD at that)? SCD just seems easier... not in the sense of food prep -- both diets are quite demanding that way -- but from the perspective of being able to eat a variety of foods. The children can have some dairy from the beginning, and "normal" stuff like burger patties and homemade jell-o, rather than just soup soup soup all the time. Aside from a few complaints about the lack of bread, my family adjusted very easily to the SCD, even the intro diet... but I know the GAPS intro & early stages would have been a huge adjustment.

So I guess I'm just wondering if you've considered trying "strict SCD" first. You can definitely use bone broths and other TF foods... check out Enhanced SCD for a list of suggestions. That's how we're doing it, for the most part. (The one exception is that I haven't figured out how to make the 24-hour yogurt from raw milk, although I've heard that some people are successful at it.)

[nicolelynn]

Yeah, I am only 5'2 so 98 lbs isn't as bad as if I was 5'6. 105 is the lowest I should be, so I am a good 7 lbs underweight. I started at 107 in November when I started an elimination diet, and lost the first 6 lbs then. I never gained it back, but level off for 2-3 months. Then I lost 3 more lbs since starting the GAPS diet 3 weeks ago. I really hope it is just the initial phase and I will level off and gain soon.

I actually only get diarreha only once every week or 2, and it isn't uncontrollable or frequent. Just like 1 BM will be bad. Otherwise my actual BM remain unchanged. I just deal with a constant pressure in my colon that has gotten worse the past couple of weeks.

I find a slight aversion to GAPS food now on the GAPS diet, and never dealt with that before. I always loved food, so maybe it is just the psychocological impact of my 2 favorite foods that I ate on a daily basis being taken from me (dairy and eggs). I haven't done the intro diet yet, but even now it's hard to eat soup every day. I don't think I will be able to eat much soup in the summer here when it gets 120 degrees and my kitchen even with the AC on gets 85 (no joke), so I don't know what I'll do then.

I am still reading the GAPS book, where does it talk about what to do if you are allergic to eggs? The only help I saw was a few recipes for egg free dishes (which are heavy on nuts, and even though I am not allergic to them I still think they irritate my digestive track).

So I am thinking if my Dr's way dosn't work in a month and I test negative for parasites, I am going to do the intro before it gets too hot. At least I have some vacation time saved up at work so I plan to take a week off to do it. I know I will probably still be weak for awhile after that, but at least the worst part should be over and I work a desk job so I should be ok.

And hugs to you Mama with the little 2 year old with digestive and teeth problems. I also have teeth problems (all my molars are filled, root canaled, capped, extracted, etc) and before I came down with digestive problems was my only health concern. So I'm sure there is a connection, but I am hopeful that we'll all find the path back to wellness.

[LionTigerBear]

Re: why GAPS rather than SCD-- the SCD diet was designed to heal gut problems. The GAPS diet goes a step further in that it was designed to address ASD as well as other brain issues. ASD runs in my family and DS has Asperger's. Also DS2 probably has ADD, as does DH. I feel that the GAPS diet is just a more perfected version of the SCD. When we did the SCD we kind of transitioned into GAPS after a while and it really upped our healing level and that's when our symptoms finally went away. We did not do the intro diet, though, and I am thinking that we won't do it for a while, this time, either. It doesn't matter much variety is allowed on SCD for DS-- he won't eat anything anyway.

This is a problem we are having RIGHT NOW, as I type. DS has been having melt downs all afternoon because we won't allow him any sweets. Besides sweets and nuts (which he still has a hard time digesting) he will absolutely not eat anything. Not anything. This is a symptom of his Asperger's (and a symptom of GAPS-- same thing.) I am hoping that tomorrow he will be willing to eat something. He used to eat more things . . . but just gradually he started refusing anything except a few favored starchy or sweet foods . . . sigh. This is the hardest part.

[leila1213]

Originally Posted by MomToEmerson

I am crying reading all of this My 2 yo son has been constipated since starting solids and I have tried everything I knew to try... unsuccessfully. We recently started NT foods and I have been following that giving everything including tons of raw milk. He still suffers. Now, I am reading the links and crying that perhaps I have still not done the right thing, and knowing how hard it is going to be to change again I have 6 gallons of milk in the fridge, 5 lbs of raw cheese, and 5 quarts of kefir with more making.... I am doing all this and more in hopes of stopping and reversing the dreadful dental carries he also suffers from. He's had two surgeries under GA already. Now, I find that it may be bad for him too I have always felt there must be some link between his poor bowel process and disintegrating teeth, but never could find anything out. Maybe if I can do this we can heal his gut and then maybe eventually his teeth will be better too? I have ordered the book, and will look into yet another probiotic. I am so frustrated....

It is never fun to feel like you're doing the wrong thing, but when you do have a victory, even a small one, MAN does it feel awesome! I pray you will have a victory soon. Keep up hope. Just imagine where your son would be if you had never done any of this research. There are tons of kids out there like that! But you are determined not to let that happen to him. When you know better, you do better. Hang in there!

[momofmine]

Originally Posted by LionTigerBear

This is a problem we are having RIGHT NOW, as I type. DS has been having melt downs all afternoon because we won't allow him any sweets. Besides sweets and nuts (which he still has a hard time digesting) he will absolutely not eat anything. Not anything. This is a symptom of his Asperger's (and a symptom of GAPS-- same thing.) I am hoping that tomorrow he will be willing to eat something. He used to eat more things . . . but just gradually he started refusing anything except a few favored starchy or sweet foods . . . sigh. This is the hardest part.

This happened with my 4 yr old too. We had been doing GF/CF with him after he started having intestinal issues from the abx. He had grown very picky though. When we first started the SCD, he wouldn't eat much at all, but over time, he has forgotten all about those things. The other day he saw a box from a GF muffin mix (just an empty box) and he said, could we make some muffins that look like this, but use different stuff, like butter, and coconut oil, and honey?? And he looked really excited. It was so funny, he was suggesting the alternative ingredients.

[leila1213]

Originally Posted by momofmine

This happened with my 4 yr old too. We had been doing GF/CF with him after he started having intestinal issues from the abx. He had grown very picky though. When we first started the SCD, he wouldn't eat much at all, but over time, he has forgotten all about those things. The other day he saw a box from a GF muffin mix (just an empty box) and he said, could we make some muffins that look like this, but use different stuff, like butter, and coconut oil, and honey?? And he looked really excited. It was so funny, he was suggesting the alternative ingredients.

We had this issue too. I did pancakes with coconut and almond flour for the first 1-2 weeks on GAPS and DD ate them round the clock, till she lost her taste for the carbs and pretty much quit cold turkey. She'll eat almost anything now! It's truly amazing. We eat Jennie's coconut macaroons for sweets now, and bananas of course. Oh and I make the banana "ice cream" or smoothies too. I feel like I've said all this, but just in case it helps...

[momofmine]

Yeah, LTB, your idea on the banana "pudding" is what got my 4 yr old through those early weeks. He ate that like a few times a day!