GAPS/SCD mamas - Page 3

[guestmama9904]

Originally Posted by MomToEmerson

I am crying reading all of this My 2 yo son has been constipated since starting solids and I have tried everything I knew to try... unsuccessfully. We recently started NT foods and I have been following that giving everything including tons of raw milk. He still suffers. Now, I am reading the links and crying that perhaps I have still not done the right thing, and knowing how hard it is going to be to change again I have 6 gallons of milk in the fridge, 5 lbs of raw cheese, and 5 quarts of kefir with more making.... I am doing all this and more in hopes of stopping and reversing the dreadful dental carries he also suffers from. He's had two surgeries under GA already. Now, I find that it may be bad for him too I have always felt there must be some link between his poor bowel process and disintegrating teeth, but never could find anything out. Maybe if I can do this we can heal his gut and then maybe eventually his teeth will be better too? I have ordered the book, and will look into yet another probiotic. I am so frustrated....

i dont know if bad dental health neccessarily relates to bowel problems. my son has also had dental surgery done under GA at age 3.5 due to almost all his teeth having major carries. he had 4 pulpotomys. this all started when he was only 8 months old and chipped his tooth while teething on a rock (i didnt see him do it, long story). my son has never had any bowel problems but has had many dental problems. he has always loved milk, breastfed until age 5 and loves cow milk, and raw goats milk.

[LionTigerBear]

Yes, the bad dental health is one side effect of gut problems.



Well, DS had a couple of plain burger patties yesterday and that was it. I have a newborn now and I'm no longer willing to be a short order cook for him, so at dinner I made pork chops and steamed green beans and fresh pear slices for dinner, and he didn't eat. He cried about it and I felt bad but I held firm. He fell asleep early. We haven't had breakfast yet but I am going to make eggs. We have cut out all sweets from his diet for now, except fruit-- so no raisins. He won't eat fruit yet but if he would just try something new/different, we would be thrilled. I'm trying to NOT make it a big power struggle, though. He would eat banana pudding if that was an option but I refuse to go through the whole thing I did last time where I had to make banana pudding a couple times a day and it was messy and I was always cleaning it up. The boys are such messy eaters and we have carpets and it just gets everywhere-- the carpet, the chair, the chair cushion, the table, all over them and anything they run off and get their dirty little hands on. I want him to eat a variety of foods. I'm hoping that just getting the sweets (honey and sweet dried fruits) out of his system will stop his cravings and help him enjoy other foods again. So that's the idea . . . but we'll see how today goes.

Oh, after he had the burger patty yesterday that was all he wanted to eat for the rest of the day. That's how he is-- he latches on to something and won't try anything else. It's frustrating. It's his Asperger's.

Wish me luck.

[leila1213]

Good luck, it will get better! One thing I started doing when I make the banana ice cream, is add egg yolks, probiotics and avocados when I have them. I feel a lot better about giving it to her (and going to the trouble of making it and mess of serving it) when it has some fat, protein and probiotics in it. Plus, she stays fuller and is less grumpy than when she only has fruit.

[momofmine]

Yeah, we add the raw eggs and coconut oil to the banana pudding too, but I hear you on the sweets. That is me too, actually. It takes a few days to break the cycle, but then I always feel better. Good luck mama, I know it is so hard, especially when they are upset, and you have a newborn too. I hope that today goes well. I would let him eat all the meat he wants too for now, because that might just break the cravings for the sweets/carbs. then maybe he'd eat more vegs? Or, you know what I did early on was make "dinner pancakes". Like the chicken pancakes on the pecanbread website, I think. I'd put chicken, carrots, any veggie really (zuchhini has pretty much no taste at all!), and add eggs, coconut oil, and make a batter and make pancakes from that. Those were a big hit and they had no idea they were eating vegetables.

ETA: I put all that stuff together in the food processor, so it was totally ground up, even the chicken, it was just like paste.

[leila1213]

Originally Posted by LionTigerBear

Yes, the bad dental health is one side effect of gut problems.

Oh, and I just wanted to second this. :

[hummingmom]

We're really loving this high-fat thing.

Late last night, I had to go out to the supermarket on a banana run. They had a sale on local lamb, so I got some neck slices and round bone shoulder chops. When I got home, I put them into the slow cooker on medium, along with a chunk of butter, some dried herbs, a little salt, and several whole peeled garlic cloves. (I have a container of the Christopher Ranch garlic from Costco in the freezer, for times when I'm really tired and in need of shortcuts.)

I was planning on serving the meat for lunch, but it smelled so good when we got up this morning, DH and I ended up having some for breakfast too. Then I let it go a while longer, and the children and I are having it as a soup; even though I didn't add any liquid, it's ended up with plenty of broth. My usually picky DD1 says, "Mommy, I LOVE lamb soup!" When my toddler wakes up from her nap, I'll give her the marrow from the bones. There's so much fat and flavor in this dish, we're all totally satisfied with just a small serving of the meat.

See, momofmine, now it's my turn to go all primal. I'll be wearing the animal skins next.

[momofmine]

That sounds yummm....So you didn't add any liquid, just put the meat on low?

LTB, how is it going with your little guy on the eating front? Those first few weeks were so hard with my 4 yr old, too, but we did do bananas. But I understand you holidng off on them for now. He is definitely eating more now, but when I don't serve regular meals, he tends to eat a lot more bananas, and then not be hungry for the "real" food.

[hummingmom]

Originally Posted by momofmine

That sounds yummm....So you didn't add any liquid, just put the meat on low?

No liquid; I figured the butter would ensure that the meat didn't stick or burn.
The slow cooker was set to level 2 (out of 6), but it's quite old and tends to run hot. I'd guess it would be more like medium on a newer cooker.

I've also done a similar thing with a frozen boneless beef roast. I felt like making pot roast, so I put some big carrots (split lengthwise) and other sturdy vegetables on the bottom of the cooker, then put the meat and seasonings on top, and let it cook overnight. In that case, I added about 1/2 cup liquid, just to get it started. The pot roast doesn't get as tender as the lamb chops, but it holds together well for slicing, so it's good for lunch meat.

[LionTigerBear]

Originally Posted by momofmine

LTB, how is it going with your little guy on the eating front? Those first few weeks were so hard with my 4 yr old, too, but we did do bananas. But I understand you holidng off on them for now. He is definitely eating more now, but when I don't serve regular meals, he tends to eat a lot more bananas, and then not be hungry for the "real" food.

Not so great. : He refused to eat dinner that first night, and I figured he'd be hungry by breakfast-- and I was awfully reasonable, offering several food options-- he licked something, which is very brave for him, but he wouldn't eat. didn't eat at lunch. Or dinner. I tried to stay casual about it, but I was really hoping he would eat something before he went to bed. He just calmly insisted he wasn't hungry (except if it was for something sweet.) During this whole time he was turning down burger patties, too, which is his one healthy food I know he will eat at least occasionally. The next morning, he hadn't eaten in over 30 hours and he still was refusing everything. By 11 he was saying his tummy hurt, but still refusing to eat. So I broke down and made him something sweet. No bananas in the house at the time, so I made him "berry ice cream" with frozen berries, avocado, coconut oil, and honey. It was a new food for him but because it was sweet and I called it "ice cream", he tried it, and ate it all up. (He must have been so hungry by then!) He wouldn't eat anything else that day again. I had DH pick up some bananas. Yesterday I made them banana smoothie, and after that he tired some ham (not on the diet, because of additives, but I was just trying to encourage him eating something new that wasn't sweet!) He didn't eat anything else that day. He was going to try steak (oh JOY!!!) but he said he didn't like how it smelled (what a disappointment. ) Today I just made him banana smoothie for breakfast. I have another ham steak I am saving for him for lunch. I have been refusing to make him the banana smoothie (or berry ice cream) more than once a day. Again, because I don't want him to be spoiled, it's terribly inconvenient to me, and I want to encourage him to eat other things.

He's just so stubborn, though. : I think my blood pressure was probably through the roof the first couple days, I've been so worried about him and his eating. And you know what's annoying is, no one gets it (except DH). No one understands the depth of his aversion to certain food smells and textures, and how big of a deal this is to him psychologically. It's like a phobia of certain food textures and smells, almost. It drives me nuts when people opine that if we had only introduced him to a variety of healthy foods from the beginning (we did, we ate a very healthy diet and so did he-- he wasn't always like this, it's part of his Asperger's symptoms) then he wouldn't have grown up so picky, or if we just lay down the law, then he would eat when he was hungry (obviously not, I think he would have starved himself. Literally.)

It's all very stressful. I find when I have to make a banana pudding for them, I often skip making a meal for myself. I hate banana pudding right now-- I have a deep aversion to it. It triggers my gag reflex.

[LionTigerBear]

Ugh. DS1's Asperger's symptoms are markedly worse this morning since eating breakfast.

He was doing so much better yesterday and the day before-- even though low energy, he was attentive and focused. This morning he is shrieking intermittently (in excitement-- ow, my poor ears!!!) and bouncing around much more. I put some L-glutamine in his pudding this morning, I wonder if that's the perpetrator. I will skip it tomorrow and see how he does then. The glutamine is supposed to help build muscle mass (DS1 has become pretty skinny again within the last several months) and also it helps repair the lining of the intestines and heal leaky gut and heal allergies. Interestingly, DS2 had the same amount of glutamine and he is doing GREAT this morning. He is much more focused and good-tempered than usual.

Of course, it could be the honey or bananas, too, I suppose.

[hummingmom]

LTB, since you're not on the GAPS intro yet, would it be possible for your son to have some dairy, at least in this transitional period? It sounds as if he has done okay with it in the past. If he'll eat it in any legal form -- cheese, sweetened yogurt or kefir, whatever -- at least you can be sure he won't starve.

It sounds like he might be having some serious cravings. What sort of things was he eating in the weeks before the diet?

BTW, I understand your frustration with the "just keep offering and they'll eat it" concept; it didn't work for us either. My 5 yo DD will pretty much starve herself if we don't offer her at least some foods she likes (basically starches, sweet foods, and dairy). She'll eat some other things in small amounts, but not enough to sustain herself. Hunger makes her behavior much worse, which doesn't help any of us. And she'll throw up in the night/morning if she hasn't eaten enough the night before.

[LionTigerBear]

Originally Posted by hummingmom

LTB, since you're not on the GAPS intro yet, would it be possible for your son to have some dairy, at least in this transitional period? It sounds as if he has done okay with it in the past. If he'll eat it in any legal form -- cheese, sweetened yogurt or kefir, whatever -- at least you can be sure he won't starve.

This DS does fine on some dairy (or seems to at least?) but the younger son (who is two) has horrible, serious reactions to it-- he breaks out in LOTS of excema and hives and has fits and meltdowns and won't sleep. And diaper rashes, too. So we took the whole family off of dairy to make it fair/bearable for the two-year-old.

Originally Posted by hummingmom

It sounds like he might be having some serious cravings. What sort of things was he eating in the weeks before the diet?

Nitrate-free hot dogs (no bun, no condiments), lightly breaded processed "natural" chicken nuggets (no condiments), burger patties with cheese slices on top (again, plain), and french fries. Peanut butter and 100% fruit jelly sandwiches on half-whole wheat, real-sourdough no-commercial-yeast bread, or peanut butter off the spoon. Sometimes peanut butter mixed with 100% fruit jelly in a little bowl. Raw honey off the spoon before bed every night. Raw milk with maple syrup mixed in (will only drink it sweetened) or 100% grape juice, or water. For snacks, cashews, raisins, and natural fruit leather. Occasionally I would allow them "natural" potato chips, or a little candy or cookie or ice cream or something. I feel embarrassed writing it out, it was such an awful diet. But I did my best. I continued to encourage him (casually!) to try new things. No go. (Unless it was a sweet!)

DS2 ate the same but add in veggies and fruits and the occasional steak or bit of whatever I was eating.

Thank you for the sympathy! It's nice when someone understands. The day I broke down and made him the berry "ice cream" I think he was working himself up to throw up (not on purpose of course.) Poor baby. I get so aggravated but I know he can't help it so I'm not upset with him.

[hummingmom]

FWIW, those foods -- hot dogs, nuggets, probably even the ham -- would turn my DD1 into a screaming Mimi. She can't even handle the "all natural" stuff, though the standard supermarket stuff is MUCH worse. I'm pretty sure it's due to hidden MSG in the spices/seasonings/flavorings. Orange cheese always has annatto, and cheese slices usually have phosphate additives, both of which she reacts to. Even the "healthiest" store-bought candies and baked goods usually have annatto coloring and/or phosphate baking powders, so we pretty much have to stay away from everything that comes in a package, or risk yet another meltdown.

(Oddly enough, annatto, despite being a natural coloring, has been well documented to actually cause even more problems than the infamous yellow #5, aka tartrazine. I think it's really irresponsible of "health food" manufacturers to keep adding it to foods that children eat. In Europe, they often use beta-carotene instead; I see no reason why they can't do the same here.)

When DD1 was a baby, I kept a food diary for several weeks, and she did seem to react to certain foods in my diet, but I couldn't make head or tail of them. I mean, Romano cheese and grapes? It wasn't until a couple of years later, when I started reading about the FAILSAFE diet, that I discovered that both of those foods are exceptionally high in natural glutamates. IIRC, glutamate basically works by overexciting the neurons in the brain, which is the last thing these sensitive little ones need.

If your DS1 does have a glutamate sensitivity, the glutamine could definitely be a problem, as it can be turned into glutamate by the body. Of course, glutamate doesn't affect everyone so badly, and I've even seen it recommended as a natural antidepressant (which would fit with its effects on your younger DS). I tend to think that glutamate sensitivity might be caused by some underlying deficiency, which leads to the brain being unable to use it properly. I've researched this in the past, but can't remember if I came up with anything.

So anyway, sorry that turned into a bit of a rant about food additives , but the upshot is that these things can act like drugs in our children's bodies. I'd personally avoid new supplements, and all processed foods, until things start to settle down. It's complicated enough already.

BTW, since he'll eat ham and sweet things, have you tried making homemade sausage with ground pork and honey? It's pretty popular here.

[newcastlemama]

Hey all,

I am still here..I am doing SCD/GAPS starting yesterday after I had some intensifying GI problems. Anyway I have been eating blended squash and beef bone broth soup, sausages, grape jello, sauteed chicken and vegetables in butter, lettuce wrapped hamburger patties..... I am also eating ferments kombucha, juice kefir, saurkraut...It is not prefect yet (My sausage had some dextrose in it) but over the next few days I will be fine tuning. I already feel better. I still need to do a stool test to see exactly what the issue is but I will keep on this until I know. I think that I have damage due to a lot of abx so maybe candida. (The nutrient defiencies and vax probably did not help either) I am staying on my nutrient supps because I feel good on them and they are very clean (of allergens, starches ect..)

I decided that I am not going to do the GAPS intro thing...It is too hard on me. After reading on some SCD sites yesterday even they said the most important thing is to eat legal foods that you can tolerate. The were addressing parents concerns that the children would not folllow the intro diet but they could get them to eat a little more expanded SCD. I am still going to eat lots of broth and such, but I when I did try the intro it made me really weak. I am bfing too and I think it is just too much.

s to the mamas who are stuggling with the kids. Maybe check out some kids friendly SCD recipes? s

[LionTigerBear]

Originally Posted by hummingmom

So anyway, sorry that turned into a bit of a rant about food additives , but the upshot is that these things can act like drugs in our children's bodies. I'd personally avoid new supplements, and all processed foods, until things start to settle down. It's complicated enough already.

So you think maybe that's why he craves these foods? Interesting, hadn't thought of that before. Now I have something new to think about.

Originally Posted by hummingmom

BTW, since he'll eat ham and sweet things, have you tried making homemade sausage with ground pork and honey? It's pretty popular here.

No, he's never been a fan of sausage, unfortunately. He's so fussy. I would like it though!

I am planning to get some SCD/GAPS cookbooks soon, whenever I can fit it in the budget.

[hummingmom]

Originally Posted by newcastlemama

Hey all,

I am still here..I am doing SCD/GAPS starting yesterday after I had some intensifying GI problems. Anyway I have been eating blended squash and beef bone broth soup, sausages, grape jello, sauteed chicken and vegetables in butter, lettuce wrapped hamburger patties..... I am also eating ferments kombucha, juice kefir, saurkraut...

Hi! Have you considered doing the SCD intro this time around, then maybe going back and doing GAPS later? The SCD allows almost all the foods you've mentioned, right from the start. I'm pregnant, and was able to do it no problem. I did have some cravings/die-off symptoms on and off over the first few weeks, but it wasn't a case of not getting enough food. Early stage SCD might not be thrilling, but it's quite nutritious.

The sauerkraut and lettuce would have to wait for a while, as they're too fibrous, though you can start with a little sauerkraut juice early on. The kombucha would be out, though -- partly because it may still have some sucrose in it, and also because it's pretty heavy-duty stuff. The SCD is more oriented toward taking away hard-to-digest foods; keeping it slow, simple and gentle with the probiotics; and letting the body figure out how best to detox and rebalance itself.

Anyway, whichever one you choose -- GAPS or SCD -- I'd strongly recommend following the recommended stages, with the intro, slow introduction of new foods, etc. IMO, if you're going through the ordeal of such a major change in diet, preparing the special foods from scratch, etc., you might as well do it 100% and get a conclusive answer as to whether or not it will work. There seem to be a lot of us who are coming back to try these diets again, after being a little too "casual" the first time around. :

[newcastlemama]

Thanks hummingmom. I think I will do the SCD intro after I do some grocery shopping. I was reading a little more about it today and it is probably a good fit for me. I can do meat stews, grape gelitan, burger patties, carrots...I know I can tolate all of those. Right now I am just really trying to eat starch free food that is SCD-ish...I will probably shop again Saturday....

I was wondering if I could still have raw acv or dandelion tea before my meals too...I have low stomach acid and need something to help my gallbladder out when I eat to avoid pain.

Also, how long do you wait before intro-ing an intolerant food that is on the diet (eggs, dairy, tomatoes)

Thanks!
Jen

[HerbanGirl]

I'm so glad this thread is here! I continue to have lots of problems with food and digestion, and am starting to think that GAPS might be the way to go. I have the book and will check it out in the next couple of weeks. The GAPS Guide website is great - thanks for posting it!

I can't remember who originated the banana pudding recipe, but would you mind posting it here?

LTB, I really felt for you and your DS as I was reading through the thread. Just wanted to give you a hug.

NewcastleMama, how are you doing on the GAPS diet? I remember chatting with you a while back about our similar food sensitivities. Some of mine have gotten better thanks to a good nutritionist in Orangevale, but I'm still having significant problems, am GF/DF and am craving sugar like crazy. Argh.

[LionTigerBear]

Originally Posted by hummingmom

Anyway, whichever one you choose -- GAPS or SCD -- I'd strongly recommend following the recommended stages, with the intro, slow introduction of new foods, etc. IMO, if you're going through the ordeal of such a major change in diet, preparing the special foods from scratch, etc., you might as well do it 100% and get a conclusive answer as to whether or not it will work. There seem to be a lot of us who are coming back to try these diets again, after being a little too "casual" the first time around. :

On the GAPS diet, apparently it is considered perfectly fine to start where ever you can and go back and do the intro later on. A lot of people do this-- in fact, the author of GAPS recommends that nursing mothers NOT do the intro. So, for that reason, and for DS1 who would starve on the intro anyway, we are probably going to wait a couple years before going back and doing the intro. We have ot be on this diet for the next 6+ years anyway so whats a couple years, really?

I learned this and more on that GAPS yahoo group that was linked. Very informative!! I haven't been able ot read all of the posts or pipe in yet, but I'm learning a lot.

Originally Posted by newcastlemama

I was wondering if I could still have raw acv or dandelion tea before my meals too...I have low stomach acid and need something to help my gallbladder out when I eat to avoid pain.

Also, how long do you wait before intro-ing an intolerant food that is on the diet (eggs, dairy, tomatoes)

Raw AVC should be fine! On the introducing foods thing, I think that is covered in the GAPS Guide book and also convered a bit on the Yahoo group. I don't know, though.

Originally Posted by HerbanGirl

I can't remember who originated the banana pudding recipe, but would you mind posting it here?

I don't know if it was me, but I certainly have touted the famous "banana pudding" for years now . . .

We do about three bananas, two tablespoons of coconut oil (you may have to work up to that if you're not used to coconut oil, it can cause headaches/nausea/diarrhea for some people if they have a lot at first when they're not used to it-- but it's very healthy--) and about four raw egg yolks. I also usually add a dash of sea salt and cinnamon. Then we blend it in the blender. I personally can't stand this banana pudding, but the boys love it. The consistency will depend on how ripe the bananas are (sometimes I call it banana smoothie instead of pudding because it's more liquid.) I like it better if I add frozen berries into the mix (add them last.)

Originally Posted by HerbanGirl

LTB, I really felt for you and your DS as I was reading through the thread. Just wanted to give you a hug.

Thank you. Hug accepted!

[stilllearning85]

I saw Natasha Campbell-McBride speak this last weekend at a conference! She was AWESOME! Really made me want to jump on the GAPS bandwagon so as to have a healthy probiotic rich baby! Maybe I will be joining this thread soon!