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GAPS/SCD mamas - Page 5

post #81 of 213
DR NCM STARTED A GREAT WEBPAGE to answer questions--


She is taking about adding whey/yogurt right from the start so that it s change fromthe book. She also seems to think eating (IgG)allergens from the beggining is fine as long as the reaction is not severe--

Unless the reaction is very severe, it should be ignored. Just concentrate on healing the gut lining with the Introduction Diet. Once the gut wall is healed, the foods will be digested properly before being absorbed, which will remove most food intolerances and allergies.
I have to restart intro at this point because when I moved on my BMs stopped. When I tired saurkraut I had D and horrible stomach pain as well. So with this info I am going to add my intolerant foods in the order she presented (avocado, eggs, dairy) I will wait on tomatoes for a little more healing since they have given me full blown panic attacks in the past and are not part of intro really anyway.

My dh is supposed to get paid for some jobs so hopefully I will be able to do the stool panel to see exactly what I am dealing with..I was on TONS of abx in the past (for Lyme and it did not even work, just immune boosting stuff did) but don't have any "yeasty" symptoms. I did take 100,000 count of probiotics a day in between the abx...at least my dr knew about that. I did developed colitis while on them and quit and my dr wanted me to keep going..anyway I wish I never did that but I was desperate nad not thinking clearly with all my anxiety issues.
post #82 of 213
Newcastlemama, thanks for the link!

Does GAPS allow/encourage organ meats on the intro? I'm thinking it must, as NCM mentions using chicken giblets in the broth. For those who aren't eating a lot of raw or lightly cooked fruits and vegetables, the organs can fill in many nutritional gaps (pardon the pun ), which can help a lot with the cravings and general blahs. Something that came to mind recently was that eating muscle meat and fat without the organs is like eating refined grains and bran without the germ. You can survive on them, but you're not going to achieve optimal health or healing.

Hearts can be simmered in the stock along with everything else, but liver will turn bitter if it's overcooked, so it should be cooked gently until it's just done. As for kidney, I don't think it would turn bitter, but a particularly strong variety might make your soup smell like pee.

It would be ideal to get a small serving of organ meats every day -- maybe an ounce or two? -- because some of the B-vitamins aren't stored in the body. For instance, you could grind up some liver together with a little cooked winter squash and onion, make tiny meatballs, and simmer them in the broth. They could then be frozen on a cookie sheet and stored in a freezer bag, and you could have some in broth each day. This is similar to "leberknoedel soup," which is a classic German dish. Traditionally, it also uses bone marrow.

It would also be great to have fish broth occasionally, instead of chicken or red meat. We can only get salmon heads, which I've been told don't make a very tasty broth; I'll have to ask around for other kinds. Our supermarket does sell reasonably priced bags of frozen smelts (small fish, like sardines). The heads are removed, but the bones and innards are all there. I've tried breading and baking them in the past, and they were very tasty. I'm sure they'd make a very nutritious broth, though I'm not sure how appealing it would be.

That's the thing... some of these foods don't sound very appetizing, at least in the beginning... but if we're going to eat so far outside our cultural norms, I think we might have to adjust our palates quite a bit. Traditional societies who ate diets based on animal foods couldn't afford to shy away from the "weird stuff." For instance, imagine a primitive coastal dweller who refused to eat fish.

It does seem like most children adjust to these diets surprisingly quickly. From what I've read in past discussions, it's typically the adults who feel the most miserable, are the most tempted by forbidden foods (even after weeks on the diet), etc. This makes sense, as we're trying to go against a lifetime of eating habits. We have to go easy on ourselves, and treat ourselves to our favorite legal foods, just like we would with our children.
post #83 of 213
BTW, in my experience, it's absolutely essential to have a few containers of yummy intro soup in the freezer. Even if you're off the intro, you never know when you might get a digestive upset and need to go back on it. Besides, it can be a lifesaver on days when everything goes nuts, and you don't have time to cook. IMO, it would be an excellent idea to make & freeze several quarts of the soup before you even start the diet. (This goes for both SCD and GAPS.)

I would have fallen off the wagon multiple times by now, if not for my "soup stash."
post #84 of 213
Hummingmom--We all like chicken liver pate here and sometimes I grind beef liver into the ground beef. I would like to get more into organ meats in because I do think they are important.

I am on Day 7 GAPS intro--I can do stews/casseroles at this point (stage 2), kraut juice is okay but the kraut itself caused my major tummy problems (I was suprised because I have eaten it for quite a while)

Here is a yummy stew combo I made today--
cooked chicken, chicken broth, lots of onions and garlic, acorn squash, coconut oil and dill..I added an egg yolk too.

I am on day 2 of adding egg yolks and I don't think it is affecting me!: I found some awesome local pastured eggs since I am eating them raw. I am going to try and add avocado tomorrow (another one of my intoerances) so I hope it will go well.

I am going to start adding in ghee and 24h yogurt in small increments soon.

I ordered fermented CLO and the Bio-kult today since we have a little money. I feel a little nervous about the probiotic because of die-off so I am going to go slow. I read that it is good to do the theraputic dose for 6 months and then I can maintain on fermented foods. My aunt also gave me her brand new super nice JUICER!!!! They never used it so I get to start that up soon! My ds and dh are really excited to juice too.

I am feeling a lot less stressed out about the diet/protocol now that I have done it for a week. I am also feeling hopeful about the diet since my, um, bowel issue is improving and the egg yolks seem to be going well. I also try and remind myself that it will only get better from here..I will keep going up the stages and getting to add more foods.

post #85 of 213
Also, if you GAPS mamas have not checked out Dr NCM's new website--do it!

She has revised dairy intro and she talks about how to add grains/starch and gluten when you get to that point. I like reading it because it shows me where I am headed!
post #86 of 213
Awesome about the website!!! Yayyy!!!

I don't think DS was reacting to the glutamine, I think he is having die-off reactions. We haven't been doing the glutamine since that one time and his behavior hasn't changed. And it is NO FUN. Oh well!!! Also, I realized they might possibly be reacting to their Playdoh so that is now out of the picture. We'll see if that helps.
post #87 of 213


Edited by oiseau - 9/28/13 at 6:09am
post #88 of 213
You're headaches probably flame up when you don't feed your addictions. So, you're right, a diet of meat and veggies will probably give you wicked bad headaches at first. But it WILL feed your brain. The sugar is NOT feeding your brain! I would personally ease into the transition by starting to just cut back on sugar and chocolate and starches now, with the help of amino acids and vitamins to help stave off the cravings. Julia Ross has really good recommendations for this in her book The Mood Cure. I suggest activated charcoal as well. Then from there you can ease into the intro, cutting out the remaining grains and starches and so forth.

When I first went on the SCD intro a couple years ago (a la pecanbread.com) I did get very sick-- headaches, extremely weak and dizzy, almost fainted. I was going into the SCD intro from a GFCF diet. In retrospect I WISH I had used supplements and activated charcoal to ease into the diet. To the starch/sugar-addicted body/brain, it is like coming off of drugs. Literally. BTW, my really bad weak/headachey symptoms were gone within just a few days.

P.S. the perpetually hungry feeling will persist for a long time-- maybe weeks but possibly months. The first time I went grain-free, this lasted months, but I wasn't on a probiotic then. It will feel like you aren't eating enough and you just can't feel satisfied. And then, at some point, you realize that those were just cravings, not real hunger-- because they go away. This time doing the GAPS diet, I am also on a probiotic, and that craving/not-satisfied feeling only lasted a couple/few weeks. Now I no longer have cravings for grains, starches, or sugar AT ALL!!! In fact the idea of pizza, chocolate ice cream, a chocolate bar, potato chips or toast just turns my stomach! No appeal whatsoever. Amazing! These are the kinds of things I could not get through the day without just a couple of months ago! I was so addicted to sweets! BTW, the probiotic I am on is Primal Defense by Garden of Life and I don't know if it is technically legal but it is working so well for me and I LOVE it.
post #89 of 213


Edited by oiseau - 9/28/13 at 6:09am
post #90 of 213
Thread Starter 
Originally Posted by momofmine View Post
I am finding that sometimes my thought process is one of subconsciously thinking I will never be able to have that again. When I tell myself intentionally and with reason that I CAN have that chocolate, sometime in the future, it just would be better to not have it today, because I am healing all this stuff now so that I CAN indulge on occasion in the future, well, it works sometimes at least.
I was thinking about this the other day and came up with an analogy: So, the gut lining is like a cast-iron skillet. It needs to be "seasoned". If it's never been properly seasoned, it is extremely finicky. Everything sticks to it, and it needs to be cleaned and oiled promptly or it will begin to rust immediately. BUT, once it's been seasoned sufficiently, the food stops sticking, and you can let it sit out dirty without a problem. And you don't have to oil it nearly as often. HOWEVER, even the most well-seasoned skillet will start getting rusty if it's left outside in the rain for too long. If that happens, you need to bring it back in, clean it off, oil it up, and begin the seasoning process again. It might be quicker than the first time though, and it will soon be back to frying your eggs like a champ.

Now I'm going to think about "oiling" my gut every time I use my skillet!
post #91 of 213
I am just giving a progress update--(Day 12)

I am moving into stage 3 and I had some scrambled eggs and avocado for breakfast. I tried a tiny bit of kraut again yesterday and today and no tummy problems from any of this!!!! This is exciting because--eggs and avo are some of my intolerant foods AND last week I had major digestive upset after kraut so I feel like I am healing!!!...I had been having raw egg yolk and ghee.

I am going to stat biokult on Monday after all the Ressurection Day celebrations are over...I don't want to feel die off during that.

LEILA-I really like the cast iron skillet analogy!

oiseau-GAPS sounds like a really good fit for you. I hope you can feel better soon..I second the Mood Cure book. It is awesome!

Gotta run,
post #92 of 213
Originally Posted by oiseau View Post
Thanks for the input.
I do frequently feel like I just can't get enough to eat to satisfy my brain (not my stomach....it really feels like my brain is begging for food). I do get tired and weak feeling a lot now.

As for cravings, I remember when I tried the elimination diet suggested by my naturopath, I got over sugar and chocolate really quick. I used to LOVE ice cream, but the thought of it now just disgusts me...how it makes my throat all mucous-y feeling. I've recently been eating a lot more fruit than I used to and craving that a lot more than crappier sugar things (cookies, etc.).

I think I'll just really need to take it slow and eventually switch over completely. It sucks that I won't be able to get my partner on board for this. His gut is nice and happy and there's no way he'd consider giving up things like his precious oatmeal! He'll be fine eating GAPS dinners and things though.
The reason your brain needs those things is because it's a real addiction and affects your brain chemistry. Chocolate cravings could signal magnesium deficiency. Maybe try some natural calm or other magnesium citrate supplement to see if that helps. You probably have several vit/mineral deficiencies along with not digesting well. Methyl B-12 took away all of my brain fog within 3 days, but you could also need other B's, zinc, etc. There are many threads in the allergies forum right now about supps which may help you on your path.

I would not jump onto GAPS right away without practicing with severely limiting your carbs. Maybe try to make it slowly down to the full legal list, and then restarting with the intro so it's not such a shock to your body. This is what I am doing BTW along with taking sooo many vitamins, and I am having good results with it. My candida symptoms vanished even while eating fruit and honey (and reappear when I eat grain), more energy, less indigestion, more stable mood, etc. I have to maintain my not huge milk supply for my 6mo, so I am not doing anything that would be a shock to my body, but I think that this might be a healthy way to go for anyone especially if you don't have someone to take care of you and make you all the soup so that you can completely rest and heal while on the GAPS intro.
post #93 of 213
Originally Posted by newcastlemama View Post
LEILA-I really like the cast iron skillet analogy!
Me too!!!

Originally Posted by farmerjess View Post
The reason your brain needs those things is because it's a real addiction and affects your brain chemistry.
Yes! Yes to everything Jess said.
post #94 of 213
Hi all! Things have been really busy, so I haven't had a chance to come back to this thread until just now. LTB, is your son eating a better variety now? How's it going?

Originally Posted by nicolelynn View Post
I feel ya!

I just got my lab results back and I have parasites AND candida overgrowth.
What kind of test did you have done that showed parasites? I would like to have a test done for DS1. I took him to the chiro this week, and she did this muscle testing that showed he has parasite issues, and she recommended these Standard Process supplements, garlic and wormwood. The wormwood had some other things in it too like black walnut hulls and cloves. They were very expensive, and the wormwood has SCD-illegals in it. There's part of me that is very skeptical about using anti-parasite herbs. But then I wonder, what if he really needs this? I have always kind of wondered about parasites. He has such a huge appetite, is never full, yet he is super skinny and his fabulous weight gain has plateaued.

Anybody have any thoughts on that?

Originally Posted by newcastlemama View Post
I am keeping on my B-complex, mag, and zinc because they help (I also have pyroluria so I need the B6 and zinc).
I wonder if that might be an issue for me too, as I feel so much better when I take high doses of the B vitamins.

newcastlemama, Thank you SO much for the link to NCM's page, that is super! I'm glad things are going well! Hooray on the eggs and ghee!!

LTB, our doc also suggested glutamine for DS1, and I think he reacted negatively to it, digestively, but who knows. But I think it does help some people.
post #95 of 213
I am searching the forum right now because I need some ideas for Easter treats I can make now that the dc are in bed. And none of you are online! I am thinking about making a concoction with stuff like nut butter, coconut oil (or coconut cream concentrate?), and raw honey and rolling it into little balls and refrigerating. I read something like this somewhere on the TF forum, but of course I can't find it now. I am trying to figure out if it would work better to use the coconut oil or the cream concentrate. The concentrate is a lot more solid, so it might not mix into a paste as well, but then it might stay more a ball after it's mixed.

Maybe I will make macaroons. If anyone pops on, send me some ideas!
I have a feeling I'm going to be up late!

Hope everyone is doing well!
post #96 of 213
I did a stool test for both parasites and candida. I personally don't know about the muscle testing. I'm still amazed that my mainstream Doctor even tested for candida...and it was his idea not mine.

I, too am unsure about all the supplements I'm taking...but I am desperate. If it dosn't work I will have to look into taking a medical leave of absence from work to do the GAPS Intro. No way I could do that working FT. So I hope it dosn't come to that.
post #97 of 213
Originally Posted by momofmine View Post
I am searching the forum right now because I need some ideas for Easter treats I can make now that the dc are in bed. And none of you are online!
If you're still up, hi!

I'm also having pre-Easter food stress, but of a different kind. I just filled 42 plastic eggs with several different types of non-SCD treats for my children. It all smelled so good (especially the forbidden brown substance which shall not be named ), I was very close to snitching some. Somehow, I managed to make it through counting out all those morsels without eating any... but I was still having cravings, so I ended up eating a bunch of freeze-dried cherries. They're too advanced for me, and I might pay for it later, but it beats cheating with actual illegals.

So anyway, as for your question, there's a quick recipe for pecan & coconut "Easter Eggs" here:


And this page has a marzipan recipe:


Hope that gives you some ideas that you can play around with. I'd imagine that you could substitute coconut oil for the ghee or butter.

Have a great day tomorrow!
post #98 of 213
Before all this I made a treat served at a health food deli here. Basically mix coconut cream (the pureed packaged in plastic kind, I get "Let's Do Organic), shredded coconut and agave. Press in a pan and covered with the unmentionable dark brown stuff and chopped almond. Chill until firm and serve chilled cut into squares.

Before I found out I had candida too and am not doing honey, I had got the goods to make it with just coconut cream, shredded coconut, honey and topped with chopped almonds.

Once I am better! Yum.
post #99 of 213
Originally Posted by momofmine View Post
Hi all! Things have been really busy, so I haven't had a chance to come back to this thread until just now. LTB, is your son eating a better variety now? How's it going?
It's going okay. He eats the same three things every day. Peanut butter brownies (peanut butter, honey, eggs, baking soda-- I add extra eggs, too), "berry ice cream" (avocado, frozen berries, egg yolks, honey, coconut oil) and "banana smoothie" (bananas, egg yolks, honey, coconut oil.)

It's not ideal-- wish there was more variety-- but he is actually doing SO WELL on this diet. I have been giving him multivitamins (Nordic Natural's Nordic Berries for kids), children's probiotics (Garden of Life) and glutamine powder, all sporadically-- not by design but because life is so hectic and I forget.

Anyway, we are doing well. Well, we were up until Easter when they both managed to get illegal foods in their system-- and they both had some issues as a result but we'll get through it. Gotta be more careful at holidays!!
post #100 of 213
LTB--I am glad to hear your son is eating some wholesome foods! Even if they are limited at least they are nutritious..I am sure he will branch out over time.

Checking in..I think day 16 and I am ready to move into stage 5! I had such a rough start that I thought things were going to go much slower than this so I am pleased! I am eating scrambled eggs now and juicing-YUM! Eating lots of saurkraut without troubles!!! LOTS of fat without gallbladder pain! Even my husband cannot believe the progress. Even though I do understand the science I guess I am suprised that it is working in real life on me so far

I got my fermented clo in cinnimon and it is actually really good tasting..better than the regular HVCLO imo.

I am hoping to start yogurt soon (I am doing ghee) because dairy is what I really wanted back in my diet. Fermented dairy is just so great because it is protein, minerals, probiotics, and fats all in one package. But I am so thankful to eat eggs right now that I can be patient!

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