Dora Grows Up, Becomes 'Fashionable'

[Theoretica]

http://www.businesswire.com/portal/s...72&newsLang=en

Blech!

And so much more. But a BIG blech!!!

[Amylcd]

As a mother of three girls, I've got no problem with it.

[Smokering]

Will her voice be less annoying?

[Theoretica]

Really?? To me it's the overcommercialization and rampant target marketing of children, hooking them into a brand for as long as possible to maximize the profit potential of the 'latest gimmick'. It's the chauvinistic grooming of young girls into materialistic shopoholics that obsess with the superficial values of image, appearance, and fashion while (not so) subtly imprinting them with the message of the mainstream media.

I could go on...but I bet you get my drift. LOL

Why couldn't Dora 'grow up' into an activist that makes a difference in the world and encourages her followers to do the same? I didn't mind Dora when she solved puzzles and played with Boots. But a Dora that shops and 'does fashion'?

Argh.

[sebarnes]

Originally Posted by Theoretica

Really?? To me it's the overcommercialization and rampant target marketing of children, hooking them into a brand for as long as possible to maximize the profit potential of the 'latest gimmick'. It's the chauvinistic grooming of young girls into materialistic shopoholics that obsess with the superficial values of image, appearance, and fashion while (not so) subtly imprinting them with the message of the mainstream media.

I could go on...but I bet you get my drift. LOL

Why couldn't Dora 'grow up' into an activist that makes a difference in the world and encourages her followers to do the same? I didn't mind Dora when she solved puzzles and played with Boots. But a Dora that shops and 'does fashion'?

Argh.

This is my big problem as well. Not that I'm totally stoked about preschool Dora, but at least she's out having adventures and solving problems. Tween Dora suddenly leaves that behind to become a socialized city dwelling fashionista? It gives girls the message that once they get to a certain age it's time to leave being active behind and get on with the real business of being a woman - dressing well. Makes me wanna puke.

[Theoretica]

Originally Posted by sebarnes

This is my big problem as well. Not that I'm totally stoked about preschool Dora, but at least she's out having adventures and solving problems. Tween Dora suddenly leaves that behind to become a socialized city dwelling fashionista? It gives girls the message that once they get to a certain age it's time to leave being active behind and get on with the real business of being a woman - dressing well. Makes me wanna puke.

:

I ABHOR the media message to girls that 'growing up' and 'becoming a female adult' somehow equals shopping, spending money, obsessing about trivial superficial bullshit, the whole nine. And it almost makes it worse that 'they' (the media moguls) sprinkle in JUST a smidge of 'caring for the environment' or 'save the whales' or whatever to make it seem that as long as you're devoting one neuron of your brain to social justice/welfare issues you're somehow making enough of a difference to justify the rest of the asinine 'teen conglomorate' type herd behavior.

.....not that I'm passionate about this topic or anything....Aherm....

[beanma]

Well it sounds kinda creepy and cool, both, that you can plug the Dora doll into the computer and change her hairstyle online and on the real doll, too.

I'm sorry she moved to the city. Since she's solving mysteries now I wonder if she's like a Dora+ScoobyDoo+NancyDrew? I both think it's interesting and am glad that my kids don't have a big fascination with Dora so I don't think we'll have any trouble sidestepping the marketing blitz.

Not into fashion here. We've also managed to bypass Barbie.

[Oriole]

I might be naive, and wrong, and all kinds of things horrible, but...

I don't think that a cartoon character will turn a child into a mindless, heartless shopaholic. When raised in a household with certain values, when TV is not the only source of entertainment, when books are read, and family games are played, when nature is explored, no Dora will threaten me, kwim? To me it's a product that you either like or don't like, is it surprising that a doll company is trying to make money? Well, isn't every business? They are doing their thing, and I'll do mine.


By the way, I tend not to like preachy stories where children are "super good" and "save the whales" all the time. I prefer real characters that make mistakes, are goofy, and are easy to relate to for a "non heroic" kid. So neither Dora, nor "high value" characters are my cup of tea, but I certainly don't mind someone else out there enjoying one or the other.

[Oriole]

P.S. What if a little girl likes fashion, is it bad that she does? Shouldn't we have choices for all kinds of girls? The ones that want to save the world one whale at a time, and those that enjoy playing with clothes?

P.P.S. Isn't it stereotypical to assume that just because a girl likes fashion she lacks substance?

[Amylcd]

Originally Posted by Oriole

P.S. What if a little girl likes fashion, is it bad that she does? Shouldn't we have choices for all kinds of girls? The ones that want to save the world one whale at a time, and those that enjoy playing with clothes?

P.P.S. Isn't it stereotypical to assume that just because a girl likes fashion she lacks substance?

Yes, it is. There is nothing wrong with liking fashion or makeup. My kids love "pretty" clothing, they also love bugs, art and history. I spent my entire childhood playing with Barbie... somehow I survived without becoming a fashionista (or having any fashion sense )

[KaraBoo]

Doesn't surprise me a bit. Pre-teen girls are a big target for consumer goods right now. Huge.

[Theoretica]

Originally Posted by Oriole

P.S. What if a little girl likes fashion, is it bad that she does? Shouldn't we have choices for all kinds of girls? The ones that want to save the world one whale at a time, and those that enjoy playing with clothes?

P.P.S. Isn't it stereotypical to assume that just because a girl likes fashion she lacks substance?

That's not the issue at ALL though. I don't care if a boy or girl likes fashion or not. More power to them. The issue is that the media INUNDATES girls and boys with stereotypes that predefines adult males and females into 'pink' and 'blue' categories.

Originally Posted by Amylcd

There is nothing wrong with liking fashion or makeup. My kids love "pretty" clothing, they also love bugs, art and history.

I totally agree with this as long as it's based on their (or their family's) interests and values. But, not when it's something they are mimicing from a TV show whose sole mission is to increase profits & revenue by ingratiating our children with their product du jour. It's with the media's imposition of mindless and superficial values that I have a problem.

I have a problem with beauty when it's defined by Disney. I have a problem with fashion when it is dictated by Mattel. I do not have a problem with beauty and fashion as determined by the individual. Why do we allow the corporations to dictate the accepted norms of our society???

[Oriole]

Originally Posted by Theoretica

The issue is that the media INUNDATES girls and boys with stereotypes that predefines adult males and females into 'pink' and 'blue' categories.



I totally agree with this as long as it's based on their (or their family's) interests and values. But, not when it's something they are mimicing from a TV show whose sole mission is to increase profits & revenue by ingratiating our children with their product du jour. It's with the media's imposition of mindless and superficial values that I have a problem.

I have a problem with beauty when it's defined by Disney. I have a problem with fashion when it is dictated by Mattel. I do not have a problem with beauty and fashion as determined by the individual. Why do we allow the corporations to dictate the accepted norms of our society???

You see, I have a different take on it.

* Just because fast food restaurant exists, I don't have to eat there. It's a choice.

* Just because credit cards exist, I don't have to use them. It's a choice.

* Just because Dora likes fashion, doesn't mean I like Dora or fashion. It's a choice.

What if I define beauty similarly as Disney does? What if I like Disney? Am I less of a person? Am I less kind? less intelligent? less capable to stand up for myself? Why is there an assumption that Disney's definition of beauty is wrong? I understand that it doesn't agree with your views, but shouldn't I and my kid be free to choose it if we like it without someone looking down on us for it?

Disney, and (not so much Dora, which is not here at all) are only tiny parts of our lives, but shouldn't we be free to enjoy it without someone looking down on our taste? We go to Boston Museum of Fine Arts, and our great Museum of Science at least once a year, I paint, I am a certified professional photographer, I scrapbook, I make my own jewelry, I look to nature for inspiration, I knit, I sew, I made my own dress for the Renaissance Fair. I speak three languages, and read quite a bit even with a full time job. I love camping. Love it. I can milk a goat, I know how to raise chickens, ducks, and how to plant a garden that can feed a family of 4. I want to ride horses, but unfortunately, it's not in our budget with one partner unemployed and another one about to lose her job. I collect and play board games and D&D. In fact, we have company coming over tomorrow to play for the whole day.

Why should I feel like Dora and Disney are defining my values and the values for my children? I think my life is fulfilling and defined by me. I choose to like Disney films, and I am quite indifferent to what Dora does. I like Disney's take on most classic stories (I'd still them rather tell Little Mermaid's story as it was meant to be, but oh well). I do think that the drawing is beautiful, and I like their music for the most part.

In my mind, they have every right to exist, and if I wanted to live in a society where cartoons are defined by one person, I'd be going back in time to the country of my birth - Socialistic Republic of Ukraine, kwim? I'll take Dora and Disney with their definition of beauty any time, and I'll trust myself and my children to create our own definition of beauty by drawing from our lives as a whole, vs. a tiny portion of it that is television screen.

[LiamnEmma]

Originally Posted by Smokering

Will her voice be less annoying?

tee hee hee, hopefully she'll have learned to use her inside voice

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Oriole

I might be naive, and wrong, and all kinds of things horrible, but...

I don't think that a cartoon character will turn a child into a mindless, heartless shopaholic.

I don't think that, either. It still makes me sick that the people who market Dora are trying to do just that to a whole generation.

Originally Posted by Oriole

What if I define beauty similarly as Disney does? What if I like Disney? Am I less of a person? Am I less kind? less intelligent? less capable to stand up for myself? Why is there an assumption that Disney's definition of beauty is wrong?

Firstly, I think pretty much any definition of beauty (at least physical beauty) is wrong. Any definition one might have is going to ignore subjective aspects of appearance.

Disney, and (not so much Dora, which is not here at all) are only tiny parts of our lives, but shouldn't we be free to enjoy it without someone looking down on our taste?



Why should I feel like Dora and Disney are defining my values and the values for my children? I think my life is fulfilling and defined by me. I choose to like Disney films, and I am quite indifferent to what Dora does.



I'll take Dora and Disney with their definition of beauty any time...

The issue isn't what you like, or what your children like, or what my children like (I can't stand the "Princess" thing, but dd likes it...and so does ds2...and so does dh).

I can't speak for any other posters on this thread, but my objection to this kind of thing has nothing to do with the fact that it's available to people or that some people like it. I object to the careful marketing, advertising and attempts to brainwash children. Whether those attempts work or not (and they sometimes do) isn't the point. The fact that people want to do it - the fact that teams of marketers will strategize on how to create "brand loyalty" in small children - makes me want to puke.

Dora was a preschool character. Most kids would outgrow her pretty early (my Dora fanatic niece got bored with her at 6 or 7, and dd is losing interest at 5)...but that's not good enough for the sales people. They need to try to stamp "DORA" in big letters on the inside of children's brains, in such a way that those kids will harrass their parents for any piece of junk with her picture on it. The longer the kids keep doing this, the better. Marketers cultivate the "nag" factor, and they do it deliberately. That's my objection to Disney, Dora, etc.

[LittleBlessings]

I wonder if my DC will still be a big Dora fan

[Theoretica]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

but my objection to this kind of thing has nothing to do with the fact that it's available to people or that some people like it. I object to the careful marketing, advertising and attempts to brainwash children. Whether those attempts work or not (and they sometimes do) isn't the point. The fact that people want to do it - the fact that teams of marketers will strategize on how to create "brand loyalty" in small children - makes me want to puke.

Dora was a preschool character. Most kids would outgrow her pretty early (my Dora fanatic niece got bored with her at 6 or 7, and dd is losing interest at 5)...but that's not good enough for the sales people. They need to try to stamp "DORA" in big letters on the inside of children's brains, in such a way that those kids will harrass their parents for any piece of junk with her picture on it. The longer the kids keep doing this, the better. Marketers cultivate the "nag" factor, and they do it deliberately. That's my objection to Disney, Dora, etc.

This. Exactly This.

Well said

[terrordactyl]

Originally Posted by Amylcd

I spent my entire childhood playing with Barbie... somehow I survived without becoming a fashionista (or having any fashion sense )

:

[Oriole]

Well, but that's the downfall of the freedom to own your own business and to run it as you see fit. You can't dictate what kind of business people run, correct? And if I am making toys, of course I will be marketing to children and their parents. If I had a toy store, I would set up toys close to the eye level of a child, so that they could see what I am selling, if I had money to market it big, I would have commercials in the magazines and TV. How else can a company survive? Once again, you don't have to like the product, or to buy it, but I think we are forgetting the alternative - a strict controlling government; no one realizes the kinds of freedoms US offers for private businesses, I would guess no one taking stand against Dora ever lived in a totalitarian society (or am I wrong?)

To me, a company has every right to showcase its product; if you ran a toy business - you would have to advertise it in one way or another. It's a must for you to stay afloat, so how can one be upset with businesses doing what they must to survive?

I, on the other hand, as a parent have every right to surround my child with values that cannot be threatened by the values that I do not agree with. If I oppose to cruelty, or superficial way of life, or wastefulness, or any other concept, I certainly hope that I will be free to discuss this with my child. I will lead by example, not by telling others that they have no right to run their business, kwim? As I wouldn't want anyone telling me what I can or cannot do.

As far as physical beauty goes, I also will have to disagree. Certainly, I don't think people should be judged on their looks; I think there nothing more important than kindness of the heart. At the same time, I think my beloved is handsome, and I tell him so. It's nothing that he did, or earned, and yes, he has a gazillion of wonderful qualities that are tenfold more important than looks, but I like the way he looks. Is that a bad thing?

I appreciate classic art, and I think Girl with the Perl Earrings is beautiful. Is it bad for me to think so? Is it worse for me to think that this doll or that doll is pretty? Why is it okay to like a painting, but not okay to like an image done by Disney? How about every time I think a Waldorf toy is pretty, is it a bad thing to say so? Is it okay for me to think that one doll is pretty, but not okay for my child to think that? How about for every time when we see parents here saying how much they like natural toys because they are esthetically pleasing, well... that means looks, so do I have to have same standards of beauty as the person next to me? What if I like both, wooden toys AND Dora?

When I took an art class, we had a nude model. The lady must have been 60-70 years old, but when I tell you she was the very definition of grace and beauty, I am quite honest with you. She had wrinkled skin, and old face, but she was gorgeous in my eyes. She had natural long grey hair, and I still remember her 10 years later. Is it bad for me to think another woman is beautiful? Why all of a sudden "beauty" is a bad concept?

I think it becomes bad when superficial becomes more important than the heart. But I don't live my life by superficial standards. So how is it wrong for me, or for anyone else, to think that Dora is pretty? Or that Disney draws pretty illustrations? Just because someone else doesn't like it, does it mean it's wrong of me to appreciate it? I also happen to like Lascaux sketches, or is "beauty" wrong in any context?

Just a few things that pop into my head while reading the replies.

[Storm Bride]

I don't think it's wrong to find things/people pretty or beautiful or whatever. I do think it's wrong to think that our own personal tastes form some kind of valid "definition" of beauty. Beauty is very subjective.

I'm also not arguing that companies have the right to run their businesses the way they want to. I'm not in favour of banning shows aimed at kids. I never even remotely suggested that I was. I'm simply saying that I have no respect for their business practices and I don't agree that they're harmless. I think they're dangerous and I don't understand what "I like Disney" has to do with anything. Unless I missed something, nobody here was saying that "fashion Dora" should be against the law?

I'm not sure what showcasing a product or having toys at the eye level of children has to do with the kind of manipulation I'm talking about, either. They're both "marketing", but they're not the same thing.

I don't like it. I think these companies are taking awful, awful advantage of children...and most especially (sadly) of those children who are already growing up with the handicap of parents who use the tv as a babysitter. Yeah - we're tv-free (although not really, as we watch a lot of DVDs). We don't spend a lot of time and energy focused on this stuff, and we do a lot of other things. DD and ds2 will probably be just fine, even with the societal marketing barrage. The children of parents who teach those children to watch tv critically will probably be okay. However, the ugly marketing is really aimed at the poor kids whose parents plant them in front of a tv all day - the vulnerable ones.