Anyone have experience with NYS ER's and not vaxing?

[bygones75]

My younger son injured his hand when he fell off the jungle gym today. It's not serious, but he's favoring it and complaining. My chiropractor said if it is fractured, the X-ray wouldn't even show anything until tomorrow when fluid gathers sufficiently, so to wait until then.

It's been discussed here before... but I'm just so paranoid about ER's and the fact I don't vax my kids. It's a big deal around here. So do I lie and risk being found out, or tell the truth and risk a CPS visit? It just sucks. Has anyone in NY had an ER visit lately and can you share the experience?

Thanks.

[brendaziz]

I haven't- but we think about moving back to LI all the time and this is the kind of stuff that worries me.
I'm sorry for u feeling like u might have to lie. Do you have a religious exemption form for him??
If so- if they ask if all of his vaccines are up to date u could just say "we are religiously opposed to vaccinations and I have an exemption form if you would like to see it".

If you're NOT using any sort of religious exemption- I think u should just go w/ your gut. if u get a bad feeling- i wouldn't feel bad about stretching the truth.then again- it really shouldn't even come up in conversation really?? i mean- i can imagine any er doc asking "r u up to date" but the relevance to the injury is nonexistant.

I'm sorry for the un needed stress this is putting on you though!

[bygones75]

We've only been to the ER once (with my first son, shortly after we stopped vaxing him.) Yes, every admitting nurses asks about vax history. At that point, I said we were doing delayed and selective vaxing. She stopped and said, "has he had the important ones?" -- whatever that means! I assured her he had and she moved on. But not all are that laid-back about it. A woman in my playgroup had CPS called when she brought her son to the ER because she admitted he'd not been vaxed. Hence, my reticence.

James' hand is still sore today, but not tender enough that I think he's fractured it. So I didn't take him in. But it's always a worry in the back of my mind. I have two very, very active boys. I see sports in their future. What are the odds they'll never have to go to the ER?

Sorry for the babble. But thanks for listening.

Oh.. and we do have a religious exemption. But I don't think it would mean much in the hospital. Heck, it doesn't even mean much to his school!

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by bygones75

Oh.. and we do have a religious exemption. But I don't think it would mean much in the hospital. Heck, it doesn't even mean much to his school!

I would post on the NY tribe board. I'd probably keep a notarized form on hand jic.

[Attached Mama]

A religious exemption won't do you any good at all. Those are *only* relevant to schooling in NY.

Actually there is no NYS law saying that one must vaccinate. There is a mandate (diff from a law in that it carries no penalty such as a fine or imprisonment) that says in essence "no vax, no school". That's why an exemption is needed for schooling.

Despite the fact that there is no NYS law requiring vaccines, NYS social services/CPS has "not vaccinating" on their list of "indicators" for potential abuse and neglect. Doctors are generally required to report this.

We recently had a trip to the ER and noone ever asked anything about vaccines. Our dd has had none of them.

You should really check out the info from the organization Coalition for Informed Choice. Call and request info. He'll email you loads of stuff including info on what to do to avoid entanglements from CPS. He says to lie in the ER. I don't think they could find out the truth because you have to sign something releasing your medical forms from your pediatrician in order for them to request them. I don't like lying tho....

He also says to never sign the forms given for denying vax in NY because the language in them can be self incriminating for neglect as interpreted by the courts. He gives info on preparing your own letter to go on file.

In some cases, a medical exemption will get you farther than a religious one in NY. CPS doesn't care about religion tho they will pause if your MD has said your child is contraindicated for vaccines at this point in time.

[bygones75]

Thanks for all the info. I actually have contacted Gary in the past when dealing with our letter. I'll check into the CPS info.

I did sign the AAP form, but it was that or get kicked out of our practice. I just crossed out the "endangering my child" part and initialed it. I have no idea if that would hold up in court though. I'll ask him about that too. Thanks.

[Proverbs31]

Despite the fact that there is no NYS law requiring vaccines, NYS social services/CPS has "not vaccinating" on their list of "indicators" for potential abuse and neglect. Doctors are generally required to report this.

Only if they believe declining a vaccine puts the child in imminent danger.

[ilovebabies]

I'm not in New York but we had to take my son to the ER Tuesday night. He had a potentionally serious head trauma.... long story but it was so scary and he's now perfectly fine.

I was so distraught that I wasn't up to dealing with the "why's" of not vaccinating. When they asked if he was "up to date" on his vaccines, I just said yes. He's never had one vaccine so... I hope that doesn't come back to bite me.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by ilovebabies

I'm not in New York but we had to take my son to the ER Tuesday night. He had a potentionally serious head trauma.... long story but it was so scary and he's now perfectly fine.

I was so distraught that I wasn't up to dealing with the "why's" of not vaccinating. When they asked if he was "up to date" on his vaccines, I just said yes. He's never had one vaccine so... I hope that doesn't come back to bite me.

Glad your son is OK! Im sure it won't. I don't like lying either, but really if you take your child in for a broken bone or a head trauma like you did, vax status is irrelevant. they shouldn't even ask. Now if you took your child in for a high fever that he had had for a week and he was lathargic I would think his vax status MAY be relavant and worth mentioning.

[ilovebabies]

Originally Posted by Marnica

Glad your son is OK! Im sure it won't. I don't like lying either, but really if you take your child in for a broken bone or a head trauma like you did, vax status is irrelevant. they shouldn't even ask. Now if you took your child in for a high fever that he had had for a week and he was lathargic I would think his vax status MAY be relavant and worth mentioning.

Thanks Marnica. I agree. I would definitely mention it then. And normally I think I would have anyway, but I was too freaked out in the moment and not in the mood to deal with it. I think I will carry around a religious exemption for though for those situations. My ped. doesn't require one or even make me sign anything so I've not had one up to this point.

[Fyrestorm]

Originally Posted by ilovebabies

I just said yes. He's never had one vaccine so... I hope that doesn't come back to bite me.

Well, technically, he is up to date...he's had everything you're planning on getting him so he's up to date on your schedule.

[ilovebabies]

Originally Posted by Fyrestorm

Well, technically, he is up to date...he's had everything you're planning on getting him so he's up to date on your schedule.

That actually crossed my mind Fyrestorm. I basically said that same thing to dh!

[Attached Mama]

Originally Posted by Proverbs31

Only if they believe declining a vaccine puts the child in imminent danger.

No, it's actually on a written list that CPS is supposed to go by - they are required to follow up and check into it if they hear that a child is not vax. I would hope there are some reasonable ones out there who would ignore that - but I kind of doubt it. Most people do believe not vax does put a child in imminent danger. Or that the parents are just plain dumb and so they will try to find another "reason" to go along with the vax.

[KimberlyD0]

My worry would be that even if CPS isn't called because of non-vaxing, if you DON'T go to the ER and it turns out the arm is broken or something, they'll be called because you didn't get timly medical attention.

[Ruthla]

I've unfortunately been to the ER numerous times with my kids- once when DS had croup at a year old (completely unvaxed), a few times for injuries (with fully vaxed older kids) and once when we were referred from the ped's office when DS had pneumonia ( partially vaxed.)

I've had pediatricians ask about vax status during checkups. I've never once had a nurse in the ER ask about vaxes. Why on earth would it be relevent if the child is presenting with a potentially broken bone?

Also, regarding CPS and "medical neglect"- you HAVE taken the child to the chiropractor. You're obviously not ignoring the injury. I don't know about your chiropractor, but mine never hesitates to say "this seems out of the ordinary- I recomend you take the child to the ped to have this looked at."

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by Attached Mama

A religious exemption won't do you any good at all. Those are *only* relevant to schooling in NY.

Most likely the ER won't know that; all they will see is an offcial looking letter saying they have a religious exemption. I've know people say only that they are "religiously exempt" and that has worked fine.

Also, though it may be the case in NY that vaccine status is enough to trigger a mandatory CPS investigation, it is usually not enough to even merit a phone call to the parent in other states.

[Proverbs31]

That doesn't make sense; if vaccination status in and of itself is a CPS red-flag then being reported would be the norm for non-vaxers. According to my ER nurse friend, the only time they would be required to call CPS is if the parent refuses, for example: a TIG for a tetanus-prone wound, rabies shots, or *possibly* for refusing a measles vaccine during an outbreak. Otherwise, unless there are other indications of possible neglect, there is no grounds for a call to CPS.

[spero]

I'm in NYS & had my DD in the ER last summer, and they didn't even ask about her vaccine status. In fact, the only time I've ever been asked about vaccine status in the ER was when my son had a bike accident and they asked about his tetanus vax status.

Hoever, when my DD was admitted to the hospital a few years back, they asked. I simply said that we have religious opposition to all vaccines - she'd already had some, and the hospital had access to her medical file (she was referred by the ped), so it was kind of pointless to lie.

Originally Posted by bygones75

I did sign the AAP form, but it was that or get kicked out of our practice. I just crossed out the "endangering my child" part and initialed it. I have no idea if that would hold up in court though. I'll ask him about that too. Thanks.

The AAP Refusal to Vaccinate form is not considered a legal document, so there's nothing to "hold up in court".