Worried about having a boy...:/

[SilvanaRose]

Hello, my name is Sara and I dont have any kids yet but the subject of circumcision came up between my DP and I and he is insistant that if we have a boy it will be done. I have researched for days and days (hours and hours at a time) and atm I have 7 browsers up with info from all sides. Everytime I come up with something he shuts it down and says its a conspiracy theory way of thinking and that Im basically nuts. I have come up with some pretty conclusive evidence and it seems that no matter what I come up with he says its bull***. I am so pissed. This is the only arguement we have had so far and its a pretty heated one. I told him that if he wants it done so bad he will have to pry the child from my arms and take him away and hold him down and watch the whole thing being done. Although Im more thinking of telling the doctor that if he even so much as thinks about cutting off a piece of my child I will most likely kill him.

I am from Canada and its not as common there as it is in the US which makes me wonder if I wouldnt be better off going back to have the baby.

I found some absolutely disturbing material in my search for circ info. I honestly wanted to 'try' to see the other side of the debate and read it as if I was thinking it was perfectly acceptable. I couldnt do it. I tried.

I am almost at a loss and I dont know how to bring up the subject again....wait to find out if we are having a boy? It makes us both extremely standoff-ish and defensive and he actually hung up the phone on me a couple months ago when I wanted to get my point across. That was the last we talked about it.

I will not have my son circ'd ever. I havent told him that yet. I also dont want to keep bringing it up if we may never have to deal with it (ie. we have girls) and have it tear at our relationship. We have an extremely good relationship otherwise and I was actually suprised at his reaction.

How did any of you approach the subject? And did you win? Is there any advice anyone could give me?

[SilvanaRose]

I just read this whole article and I am thoroughly disgusted. I dont even know what to say.

http://www.circinfo.net/anti_circumc...by_groups.html

[A&A]

Here are two links for YOU to read (do NOT show your dp.):

http://www.udonet.com/circumcision/v...ty_of_men.html

http://www.noharmm.org/feminist.htm

Also read my signature.

May I also say that I wouldn't marry this man nor have children with him until you get this worked out.

[Ann-Marita]

Turn it around on him. Make HIM do the research and come up with good reasons to cut off a perfectly healthy part of your baby. Any "reasons" he comes up with, the posters on this board will be able to completely debunk, since there are NO valid reasons to circ.

Or you could compromise. Let the baby decide for himself when he is an adult (and after he has actually USED a fully functioning penis, complete with foreskin, for the intended purpose).

[FullMetalMom]

Originally Posted by A&A

May I also say that I wouldn't marry this man nor have children with him until you get this worked out.

: Don't have kids with him or marry him until it's straightened out.

[Friday13th]

Yeah, no kids until this is straightened out.

I agree with flipping it around, you shouldn't have to defend NOT mutilating your baby. Make him try to prove that it is necessary.

Good luck!

[Greg B]

Definitely flip it around and make him come up with a logical argument showing the benefits and how they outweigh the disadvantages. That is critical.

Second, here is a link to a well researched and reasoned piece by doctors:

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...tatement0.html

Be strong. This is a decision your child should make, not your husband.

Best wishes

[Burnindinner]

Why is he so adamant that it should be done? If someone has such strong feelings about one issue, there is usually an emotionally charged reason behind it. Have you talked about that? It just seems odd to have such a forceful reaction on his part.

What does he say about other things that are not really considered mainstream, like home birth or co-sleeping?

Think carefully if you want to have any children with a man who refuses to even consider not maiming them.

[SilvanaRose]

Thank you for the answers. I have thought alot about this lately.

He seems totally happy with how I would like to raise kids and the morals and values I would like to teach them. We agree on everything but this subject seems to really irk him. He is a non practicing Jew but says "its in the 'book' and I want my kids to be circ'd". I told him that there are Jewish people and rabbis that defend against circ and he says they are fanatics. I told him I will not be circ'ing and will leave it up to the boy and thats that. I said I think its disgusting that some book would supposedly tell you to harm your child and that if 'god' (whatever god may be) wanted a penis to be circ'd it would come like that. I could go on but I think he understands that he wont win this one. I told him he can pick the boys name and pick out the colour of a couch or something lol.

I do believe I can get this resolved but its going to be a delicate situation. Thanks again for some insight.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

It does take time ds is 4 now and dh is still not opposed to circ but he is not as anti intact as he used to be.

[Christine_T]

Just show him this:

http://www.cirp.org/library/statistics/Canada/

Or this article:
http://www.canadiancrc.com/Newspaper_Articles/Gazette_Rates_circumcision_slashed_30_years_23MAR0 6.aspx

Fewer than 14 percent of Canadian infant boys were circumcised in 2003, a drop of nearly 36 percent since 1973, says the Association for Genital Integrity.

Hardly a conspiracy.

[jessjgh1]

We can't go into specifics on religious circ on this forum, but further question could go up in the spirituality forums-- you might need 50 posts before you can post there though....
Look into a bris shalom.
It has nothing to do with being fanatical but about questioning the ethics of a procedure that is done on another human being. .
Does he like Penn and Teller? Watch the Circumcision issue (Bullsh**!)

Gotta go get the kids....

Jessica

[Getz]

Circumcision is so ingrained in American culture it can be easier to move a mountain than convince some men leaving a boy intact is the right thing.

I have no advice, just my own story. I didn't become anti-circumcision until after I was married. We were having a boy and I told DH I could not circumcise him. DH was furious, wouldn't do any research (even to support his pro-circ stance) nor would he read anything I presented. It was a huge issue.

It came down to me refusing to sign consent (fortunately, my DH would never do it behind my back). At our hospital, dads could not consent to anything concerning the baby.

3 years later, my DH still wishes DS was circumcised. This man CRIED when DS had a freaking heel prick but has no issues with slicing off functional pieces of his body! I will never understand it and honestly thought he would come around after seeing that our son is just fine with all his bits! I was wrong.

We just don't talk about it anymore. Yes, I would have loved for my husband to see the light and agree that our son is best left whole. But, I would rather have my son whole and DH mad than the other way around.

[perspective]

Originally Posted by Getz

3 years later, my DH still wishes DS was circumcised. This man CRIED when DS had a freaking heel prick but has no issues with slicing off functional pieces of his body! I will never understand it and honestly thought he would come around after seeing that our son is just fine with all his bits! I was wrong.

We just don't talk about it anymore. Yes, I would have loved for my husband to see the light and agree that our son is best left whole. But, I would rather have my son whole and DH mad than the other way around.

Well for some men (and women) circumcising is not important because they think an intact penis is unhealthy, so just seeing a healthy 3 year old does not prove him wrong.

For many men (heck even women) male circumcision is about identification. Body modification is a powerful thing, and something people strongly connect to themselves. Not having his son circumcised probably just makes him feel like you pushed a barrier between him and his son.

To the OP- Your husband may not be religious but he is still part of a cultural group, and for many in that group circumcision (again) is a MAJOR point of identification. Not circumcising probably makes him feel like your not only separating him from his son, but from his son's culture and heritage.


This is not to say you should circumcise, but this is to keep in mind because the situation because all the more complex. And solutions can be offered which might appease him, yet those cannot be talked about on this forum.

At our hospital, dads could not consent to anything concerning the baby.

Thats so horrible! I know this is a good tool to save some baby boys. (not so good when its the mother that wants to circ) But why would a hospital take all parental rights away from fathers during that first period? Its just horrible.

[georgia]

Thanks to those who have pointed out that we don't discuss religion in TCAC.

You can find more information about religious issues in the Web Resources link and by doing a search in the Religious Studies forum. Please read the Forum's Guidelines prior to posting R.S. has been opened to all members since last June so that everyone can have access to the information hosted in there. Thanks, everyone!

The discussion of or reference to religion is outside of the scope of this forum. Any posts which bring any aspect of religion into the discussion are not appropriate and will be removed. Some discussions of this nature can be hosted in the Religious Studies forum which is a subforum of Spirituality, or in an existing tribal thread for the particular religious affiliation. We do maintain a list of websites in our Web Resources thread for further information on religious issues.

[gwenovere]

Hi...

Just my 2 cents...
I am an MD... and was not particularly for/against circumcision til we observed one in med school. I came out thinking it was brutal. And this was a case in which local anesthetic was used.

I would say anyone who wants to have this done to their kid for whatever reason should see one in "real life" first. Even seeing it on video is pretty distant compared to actually being there.

Have you hubby/SO/dissenting other see one first and if that doesn't change their mind, I don't know what will.

[PuppyFluffer]

gwenovere, Thank you for your honest first hand evaluation of this procedure. I think hearing from a medical professional gives strong persuasion to the issue.

[Juliacat]

I had exactly the same issue with dh at first. He came around, but it took years and he's still not gung-ho about it. Even if he hadn't come around, though, I don't think they'll circ a baby if the mother refuses to sign the form....

[babygrant]

1. HE is the one wanting to cut a perfectly functioning piece of flesh off of your baby. HE is the one who needs to prove to YOU that circumcicion is the best way to go. It's not up to you to prove to him that keeping him natural is the way to go.

2. NO children until he stops being so adament about it. I would not have children with someone who refused to do any research or hear any reputable research.

3. If by some chance you do still have children with him while he is so pro-circ, make sure it is written on the top of your chart "NO CIRCUMCISION, NO RETRACTION". Make sure you mention this to the doctor at each and every visit. Keep the baby at your side at all times. I think this is less of an issue in Canada. Nobody ever asked me, not even once, if we were going to circumcise.

[cherri0196]

First off good for you standing your ground!!

I agree with a few of the other posters, DO NOT HAVE CHILDREN with him until you can come to an agreement. If a partner of mine seen how passsionate i was about the subject and refused to even listen to reason, it would be a total deal breaker, there are plenty of other fish in the sea and im not going to mutilate any child of mine just to "please" any parnters i may have.

Also, you can not leave it up to chance that you have a girl, i know its a hard subject but until a decision can be made then no action should be taken.

Good luck sweetie!