What some women went through... - Page 2

[kriket]

Originally Posted by Full Heart

He was SO excited when his company released its new employee handbook and it detailed all the rights for bfing mothers.

I'm pumped and angry about that all at the same time (ah, being pregnant ) Since when should a species of MAMMALS have to outline that is it ok to feed our young?

I am happy that you have an active DH. Sometimes I feel like I am steam rolling my DH with 'my parenting choices'. He mentioned the other day that if he had to choose he would vax and circ. I'm open to a vax discussion, and I am trying to be sensitive about the circ issue, because he is. I try to stay away from words like 'mutilate' 'desensitize' and 'disfigured'. I love my DH and I love his... but thats how I feel.

as far as the birth, its MY body.

[Full Heart]

Originally Posted by kriket

I'm pumped and angry about that all at the same time (ah, being pregnant ) Since when should a species of MAMMALS have to outline that is it ok to feed our young?

I am happy that you have an active DH. Sometimes I feel like I am steam rolling my DH with 'my parenting choices'. He mentioned the other day that if he had to choose he would vax and circ. I'm open to a vax discussion, and I am trying to be sensitive about the circ issue, because he is. I try to stay away from words like 'mutilate' 'desensitize' and 'disfigured'. I love my DH and I love his... but thats how I feel.

as far as the birth, its MY body.

I know I said its really sad that we actually NEED these things. But its very positive (not like this is where you can do it, more like this is a womans right so back off). Women can pump anywhere any time and they have the right to have a sink near by and an electrical outlet and use of a fridge. And its not to be the bathroom and if they have to they make a special place for them. What ever the woman wants. I think they have to do that just cause its such a huge co and there is bound to be some one who has an issue with bfing. They also went into how important it is and the many health benefits.

Hes very anti circ cause he had it done when he was 12 for medical reasons. He knows the pain. He won't submit his child to it. The vax thing was harder for him. He came to me already pro hb, bfing, cding etc. Actually when we got married he was crunchier than me in some areas.

Back to the original topic - I don't know how regional some things were. Like bfing was pretty much non existent across the board for many decades. Twilight sleep was more for upper class women because they could afford it, till it became more common and less expensive. It was around for a long time, its one of the reasons so many women left the house to birth, because it could not be administered at home. So it def had some time to find its way to rural america. The book The American Way of Birth talks about some of this.

[mamayarn]

I made a twilight sleep joke to my husband's grandmother and as it turns out, she had ether and it was fabulous. She kind of means that and kind of doesn't.

My mom, who breastfed my sister and me in the 80s for a year each, gave me the alcohol on the nipples advice too. Luckily I knew to correct her, but she is a nurse and I wonder how many other people she has told that over the years? Her specialty doesn't really deal with pregnant women, thank goodness.

She also told me that the advice to breastfeed to age 2 from the WHO was for "people in countries without birth control".

[Full Heart]

People in countries without bc LOL. Yea thats why so many nursing mothers get pg and are told repeatedly that bfing is not a reliable form of bc. Too funny.

[Limabean1975]

Originally Posted by kriket

People ask why I have to be 'so difficult' and just can't do things like everyone else and this is why. Women have been abused for generations. It stops with me.

Indeed. This is part of why it bugs me when people say "well, as long as it ends with a healthy alive mom and a healthy alive baby, that's all that matters, right?" NO. It is NOT all that matters. Aside from the fact that all the crazy interventions (including the ones routinely done even in "better" practices now) may or do cause life-long implications for mom & baby, WHY does nothing else about the birth matter but survival? Why is abuse and trauma sanctioned in labour & delivery?

[ursusarctos]

Originally Posted by Limabean1975

WHY does nothing else about the birth matter but survival? Why is abuse and trauma sanctioned in labour & delivery?

Because most people are so convinced that birth is the most life-threatening, dangerous thing you will ever go through, for both baby and mother As ridiculous as that may sound to people who know better, many doctors and "ordinary" people sincerely believe this. So everyone is relieved and supposed to be grateful when no life is lost.
I agree with you, by the way.

[Limabean1975]

Originally Posted by KatieJD

She said she went into the hospital in labor and the nurses laughed when she started pushing and a foot popped out.

It's amazing how attitudes change. If you walked into a hospital now, started pushing and a foot popped out, they'd start the alarms and have you on the operating table before you could take your next breath.

[Limabean1975]

Originally Posted by ursusarctos

Because most people are so convinced that birth is the most life-threatening, dangerous thing you will ever go through, for both baby and mother As ridiculous as that may sound to people who know better, many doctors and "ordinary" people sincerely believe this. So everyone is relieved and supposed to be grateful when no life is lost.
I agree with you, by the way.

[annettemarie]

Moving to Birth and Beyond

[Storm Bride]

My mom had my brother in 1963. She laboured for 56 hours. For most of that time, she was ordered to lie on her left side - one position. They gave her heroin as a painkiller. Things weren't progressing at all - no u/s, of course. Apparently, the doctors decided about 30 hours or so that she needed a c-section. The OB in charge refused to do it, because her life wasn't at risk yet...and he was Catholic. Since his religious beliefs precluded doing a c/s, except to save a life (because "once a c/s, always a c/s" and "no more than 3 c/s" both applies, therefore, it was birth control).

So - my brother was fully asynclitic, with his ear presenting, and the cord wrapped 3 times around his neck (no idea if that contributed or not). It's definitely quite likely that the c/s - at least at that time - saved his life. I suspect going through the birth canal would have snapped his neck. But...if they thought it was needed, why on earth did they then leave her in agonizing pain (she had a rough labour) for another day??

She was also left to wake up alone after the surgery, without knowing they'd given her a spinal (she was pretty out of it at the end). I can only imagine the terror of waking up and not being able to feel your legs, with no idea why.

Then, she got crap from the nurses because she wanted to breastfeed on demand, and it wasn't convenient for them (she was told that was problem), and because she didn't circ him.

That said...I had ds1 in 1993. My c-section was done after I said no, and I was given meds without my knowledge. I also had a nurse almost bite my head off to "hurry up" when she brought him to me for feeding...and I was trying with every muscle in my body to get over on my side so that I could nurse him. Another nurse also bit my head off for "not helping" her when she transferred me from the stretcher to the bed in the maternity ward. So sorry that your convenience isn't the first thing on my mind when I'm in pain and out of my mind on morphine.

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by Limabean1975

Indeed. This is part of why it bugs me when people say "well, as long as it ends with a healthy alive mom and a healthy alive baby, that's all that matters, right?"

It's not all that matters. It also bugs me that they say "healthy" when they really mean "alive" - at least for the mom. They don't care what kind of shape we're in when it's all over, as long as we're still breathing.

[~PurityLake~]

Originally Posted by LiLStar

I don't get that "prevents tearing" thing at all. Thats like seeing someone about to run head first into a metal pole, then intercepting them by wacking them over the head with a cast iron pan. Sure.. you prevented them from running into the pole, but they STILL have a concussion and one hell of a headache, so what good did that do? And you never know, maybe they knew that pole was there and would have moved to the side at the last second and wouldn't have hit it at all.

I love your analogy.

I'm wondering from reading a few posts what the heck 'twilight sleep' is. I've never heard that term.

[Romana]

My mother dodged a bullet with my and my older brother's births. She was told that due to a prior back injury she couldn't have an epidural. So she took Lamaze classes and planned a LeBoyer birth, with low lights and gentle entrance to the world and everything. Both births worked out that way, except she had some pitocin during my brother's (her first) birth. She did get an episiotomy both times - everyone did. But she avoided most of the other nonsense.

She also bucked the trend at the time and breastfed both of us until we were more than 2 years old.

[CanBoo]

I don’t really know much about my mom’s births. (She is just not comfortable to share about that stuff...)

She did share her breastfeeding story though and it is sad. She proudly says that she BF’d us. Really she went to the rocky first weeks and then switched to formula. Poor mom.
In 67, she BF my first brother, for a whooping 4 or 6 weeks.
At this point, it was the end of the week, she was going back to work on the Monday and went to the health clinic of the small town she lived in. The nurse gave her crap for nursing her baby in the first place against their expert medical advice. Mom said they just gave her some medication to stop the milk, and that was it. No transition for Mom or baby. You breastfeed on Friday, and have no milk left by Sunday, without any engorgement, baby is now on formula. Ain't that wonderful! :
No one suggested she pumps. Although I don’t even think there would have been a pump available for her to use in that small town.
But what she realized a couple years ago is that she was working at the school across the street from her daycare provider. She could have gone back during recess and lunch to nurse (and she ended up going there often anyways during the day because she missed my brother...)
My other brother and I ended up being BF’d for about the same period of time, just because the pattern had already been established that way... But she said the weaning was more gradual for us.

I know one of my aunts had to fight to give birth without medication... (Late 60’s) Dr was just asking why she wanted to do that... She got it, but she says it was quite the fight.

Another one was heavily medicated and doesn’t remember a thing of her births... (69 & 73.) She was so happy when my cousin invited her at her birth about 15 years ago. She said it helped her heal a lot of old wounds. Because all that time she had had dreams about the birth of babies, but even her dreams at a big gap

But I am proud to say that my GMas respectively had (at least) 13 and 15 homebirths, approx in between 1925 and 1945. (Not so proud that they had to have all those kids because of the lovely catholic mentality running the village, but they were all born home... or at a neighbour...) I do not know of them having a stillborn (hence the at least), I do know they each lost 1 baby under one year. We believe my Dad was a preemie, his brothers called him the “7 months” sometimes... Apparently he was thought to be stillborn at first and they realized later on that the baby was breathing on his own
One of my dad older sisters died of a hemorrhage following a HB though. This was in early 50s. So his family tends to be scared of HB now. They remember that one that went wrong, not the 15 successful ones. The death of my aunt was solely blamed on the homebirth when I heard about it at first during my teenage years.

I am not sure they breastfed. From the information I have, it sounds like they had the condensed milk/sugar blend... I’ve seen bottles on the rare family pictures.

Anyhow, I find this thread fascinating. Keep bringing the stories.

[Veritaserum]

Originally Posted by LiLStar

I don't get that "prevents tearing" thing at all. Thats like seeing someone about to run head first into a metal pole, then intercepting them by wacking them over the head with a cast iron pan. Sure.. you prevented them from running into the pole, but they STILL have a concussion and one hell of a headache, so what good did that do? And you never know, maybe they knew that pole was there and would have moved to the side at the last second and wouldn't have hit it at all.

My mom had six unmedicated births between 1976 - 1988. She used Lamaze, which she said worked great. She does, however, favor episiotomies and wishes my youngest sibling had been born via c-section. She thinks a c-section with him (nearly 12 lbs.) would have prevented the uterine prolapse she experienced later. I'm inclined to think that multiple episiotomies weakening the pelvic floor are more to blame.

She doesn't understand why I use a midwife and birth at home.

[mother culture]

Yes my Grand had twilight births and medicine to dry up their milk. Never questioned it then but when I was home birthing she would watch birth vdeos with me and also wishes she would have breastfed because her babies always had colic.
My other Gran was held down with wrist straps and ended up dislocating her wrists with her forcepts delivery of my Mom. Torture she called it.

[Limabean1975]

Originally Posted by ~Purity♥Lake~

I love your analogy.

I'm wondering from reading a few posts what the heck 'twilight sleep' is. I've never heard that term.

Twilight Sleep

Scopolamine + morphine provided childbirth without pain (or without the memory of pain), once a much sought-after objective. However, there were serious problems with twilight sleep. It completely removed the mother from the birth experience and it gravely depressed the baby's central nervous system. This sometimes made for a drowsy depressed baby with poor breathing capacity. Twilight sleep therefore has fallen entirely out of favor and is now a chapter in the history of obstetrics

[Baby_Vol]

My Mom's birth stories are terrible.

I love that someone said that "women have been abused for generations. It STOPs with me!" That is great and so true! That is why I am passionate!

Anyway, back to Mom.

She had my sister in the mid-70s. She told me that she had back labor, and the nurses for some reason strapped her down on her back so that she couldn't move. Then, they gave her some drug that was supposed to stop the pain, but it didn't in her. Instead, it just made the room spin. She said she still felt all the pain. She remembers one young nurse coming up to her, looking at her and saying "God, I hope I don't act like that when I am in labor." She said she will never ever forget that because it made her feel so stupid.

Before she TTC with me, she said she put it off forever. My Dad wanted a baby badly, but she just couldn't ...she was terrified of labor again. Well, I was unplanned, and she was scared. She actually wound up having an emergency c-section with me. I don't know exactly what happened, but she has told me that she went to the hospital and they strapped her to monitors. The pain got so bad that they gave her something to knock her out. While she was asleep, the monitors started showing that I was crashing ...dying. This was the middle of the night. Dad ran out to get his doctor, who blew him off. So, Dad grabbed a different doctor, and he took Mom for a c-section telling Dad that "I can save one or the other, but most likely not both. Please, prepare yourself. I will try my best."

Mom said all she knows is that the cord was around my neck several times, the placenta was coming off the wall and infection has set up in my eyes for some reason. She doesn't know much else because she almost died and was out cold for 3 days after. My Dad took care of me in the early days.

She also told me that both times, after she was in recovery, a nurse came in with medicine to "dry up her milk." She said she never remembers being asked; she was just given the medicine as standard routine.



It makes me sad thinking about all that. I've had two beautiful normal births, but it makes me so sad to think about what my mom went through.

[lifeguard]

The thought of twilight sleep makes me sick to my stomach. Just terrible the things that were done.

I just wish things were much better.

I know a woman who with her first child (now 4) gave birth in India. She is affluent & could afford good medical care - ha! They wouldn't allow anyone in with her (not dh, mom, no one). They put her in a room with a dozen other labouring women with nurses occassionally checking in. When it was "time" they brought her into another room, strapped her into stirrups & she pushed on her back. When the baby was born she was taken away & the woman was left there for an HOUR alone before anyone came to help her.

No wonder when she was offered an elective c-section right off the top here (Costa Rica has a VERY high c-section rate) she jumped at it.

It all makes me sooo sad.

[Minerva]

My father's mother had twilight sleep and forceps when her first (my father) was born in the 1920s. I'm told after she got back home she said "never again" and had the other children at home with a midwife.

And her family had been so proud because she managed to marry a man who could afford such "modern" medical treatment for his wife.