Can a baby truly get "stuck" and even doctors can't get him out during a c-section? ***sad,...

[Amila]

This may be triggering. A friend of a friend has a sweet baby boy who will be passing sometime this evening. It is so sad I can't even imagine. I only have details of this birth through the person's blog, but please tell me if this can truly happen, or if it is something that could possibly have been amended through position changes, pelvic rocks, etc.

Mother went into labor on her own.
Got epidural upon entry to hospital
10 CM dialated, baby not engaged.
Waited 3 hours for the head to drop so she could push
Brought in for a c-section, which was routine turned emergenecy
Doctors were panicking- couldn't get baby out, he was stuck behind pelvic bone- they were calling for back-up
Finally got baby out, he had some breathing problems
Blood on his brain, seizures
No brain activity...



How does this happen? Can a baby truly get stuck and cannot even be taken out via c-section? I feel so bad for this family...

[Veritaserum]

If he didn't engage, I'm confused as to how he could be stuck.... Or did he finally engage after 3 hours? It sounds very sad. It's hard to say what happened there without more details.

[frontierpsych]

A mom on another board I was on while pregnant with my first nearly lost her son that way (apgar of 2). Apparently it can happen, though I have no clue how common it is.

[Devaskyla]

Sounds like the baby was well engaged & they should have let her push him out. I'd suspect he wasn't actually "stuck" but so far down in her pelvis that they couldn't pull him back out without injuring him. I really hate to say it, but it seems very likely it was caused by the doctors.

[tireesix]

I know a mum, elective section due to health problems, Obs had great difficulty getting baby out due to him being wedged in the upper abdomen. He spent a few hours in NICU. Not quite the same but if it can happen behind the ribs I suspect it can in the pelvis too.

[liseux]

I don't think it sounds like it was the fault of the doctors, its not quite enough info to say that. It sounds like shoulder dystocia, right before crowning, and I have heard of babies who were so stuck that a section could not get them out in time. They did get out, but not in time. I hope she is not blaming herself either, if he had gone through vaginally, he may have been a bad shoulder dystocia that way too.

I'm so sorry and so sad to hear about this baby. I lost a boy to shoulder dystocia 7 years ago and nobody caused it. I never even laid down once in labor, all the position changes and affirmations in the world didn't help. It can be that bad sometimes.

[kltroy]

Could be shoulder dystocia - this can and does happen, and can lead to the death of the baby. A mom in my ICAN group lost her full-term babe this way about 1.5 years ago. Incredibly sad. There are lots of techniques for managing it, but sometimes it happens and there is simply nothing that can be done. My heart goes out to any family who has experienced such a thing.

[Norasmomma]

My DD was so wedged after pushing her for 3 hours(30 hours of labor) that my uterus has a T-incision to get her out. I was in a very similar position, but they had me stop pushing when it was apparent that she was very stuck. I had changed positions and done numerous things, honestly I think part of it was because I broke my tailbone when I was 20 and it forced her to be pushed sideways into my pelvis because I had so much pain on my left side and zero on my right.

We were both crashing, my uterus was super fatigued and no longer contracting effectively and she was being shoved harder into my pelvis with each push(and thus having a crashing heartrate). After my emergency c/s the dr toold my Dh that due to her being so far and down, but not coming out another incision was done internally and that any attempting at VBAC would likely cause me to have uterine rupture because my scar is so fragile.

We were very lucky. I'm sorry for your friend.

[Turquesa]

It's hard to say whether or not the doctors caused it. If it was shoulder dystocia, and if they had never heard of the evidence-based Gaskin Maneuver (woman gives birth on all fours), it's likely that they shoved the baby back in and went for a CS. If that was the case, she should have had a trial of labor on all fours, or at least an opportunity to try different positions.

Then again, considering that she had an epidural, position changes may have been impossible if she was numb (one more reason that I do natural childbirth). Your friend also probably couldn't have changed positions if she was hooked up to other hospital tubes and machinery, such as an IV, pitocin drip (perhaps she got this if labor was slow), and electronic fetal monitor. It also sounds like the baby was lodged pretty well in there.

This is all speculation, and obviously none of us know enough to say anything definitive. But I do understand the need to find explanations in these horrible situations. My condolences and prayers to you and your friend.

[Romana]

Yes, it can happen. I've read similar birth stories before. Often the mom is pushing for awhile but the baby isn't descending, and they finally decide to do a c-section. The baby's head is wedged tight into the pelvic/pubic bones, so tightly that the OB has to put a hand up the woman's vagina to push the baby's head back out, and/or make a second incision to gain better access.

The issue of positioning is a non-issue to me because she had an epidural, so trying a lot of different positions doesn't make sense.

I don't think there's any chance it was shoulder dystocia - everyone knows Zavanelli is usually a death sentence, and it sounds like they called the c-section long before the baby was emerging. Also, it says the c-section was routine at the beginning, which rules out Zavanelli and SD.

Sometimes babies get hung up on the bones and can emerge with a big dent in the brow or something like that. I imagine it was something similar - baby's head was pushed absolutely in tight, it was very difficult to free the baby, and as a result there was unavoidable injury. I think most likely the injury was unavoidable (once they went to c-section, anyway) and from that kind of "stuck" it also seems likely to me that the c/s was necessary. There's always a slight chance that a more mobile birth would have resulted in a healthy vaginal delivery, but I don't even think it's worth asking the question as this woman had an epidural and it's much more likely that it wouldn't have made any difference whatsoever.

I am very, very sorry for your friend and her family.

[ZoeyZoo]

I was wondering if the epi helped lead to it. Being able to change position may have helped the baby get through the pelvic bone and/or open the pelvic area up a bit. Babies don't just shoot down... they have several moves and turns they have to go through to come out.

[Storm Bride]

Too stuck to get out by c-section? No. I don't think that can happen. Too stuck to get out in time by c-section? Sure. I can see that. DD was a scheduled section for breech (repeat section, and caving in is one of the greatest regrets of my life, to be honest). I remember looking up into the mirror to see her, and the OB had her by one leg, and was yanking on her, while my GP pushed down on my fundus. Apparently (I couldn't see this, thankfully), the OB had his other hand inside, and was trying to get dd's head loose, because it was wedged up under my rib cage or something. The poor little thing spent her first couple of minutes outside me hanging upside down by one foot...

I won't even speculate on what exactly happened with your friend, although the "not engaged, but stuck behind her pubic bone" sounds really strange.

[liseux]

"I don't think there's any chance it was shoulder dystocia - everyone knows Zavanelli is usually a death sentence, and it sounds like they called the c-section long before the baby was emerging. Also, it says the c-section was routine at the beginning, which rules out Zavanelli and SD." Romana9+2

I don't think it was true s.d. at all b/c the head wasn't born yet, but possibly the beginning of a s.d. situation. But, maybe not, maybe s.d. is only when the bones get stuck further down. Maybe it was a true case of CPD?
Romana, I think your explanation makes a lot of sense.

[majormajor]

how very sad.

i just want to say, an epidural and all the wires in the world don't necessarily inhibit movement. i had an epi with DD and i daresay i moved faster than a woman without one could possibly have moved. it's all about the anesthesiologist's skill.

[mommy2maya]

Even with an epidural and monitoring and iv, I was plenty able to birth my son in a squatting position, easily.

[SublimeBirthGirl]

Originally Posted by majormajor

how very sad.

i just want to say, an epidural and all the wires in the world don't necessarily inhibit movement. i had an epi with DD and i daresay i moved faster than a woman without one could possibly have moved. it's all about the anesthesiologist's skill.

And how a mother's body reacts to anesthesia. It's extremely unpredictable and an epidural very often does make movement impossible.

This mom may need to get her medical records, and even hire a lawyer to find out what happened. Often the hospitals and doctors shut down and won't give any information. I do not see how a baby who's not engaged in the pelvis could get stuck in the pelvis. That doesn't make sense.

[Llyra]

Oh, wow, what a sad sad thing. Something sounds strange about that, though, I agree. How could the baby be stuck if he never engaged? Dunno.

Anyway, FWIW, my son was high and transverse when we had our section. They'd cut low to get DD2 out, but when it came time to deliver DS, it was really hard for them to get him positioned to deliver him through the same incision. The ob told me it was the strangest thing she'd seen. She said every time they tried to turn him to get him out, it was almost like he'd flinch away from her. She said it seemed like he was hiding way up in the top of the uterus, trying to get away from her. By the time he emerged, he was obviously a bit traumatized by the experience, and he'd been in there long enough for the spinal drugs to have reached him, and he needed a few hours of breathing assistance and NICU care to recover.

I hadn't labored, though, and he obviously wasn't engaged at all for labor, seeing as how he was transverse and had his twin sister below him.