or Connect
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Pregnancy and Birth › Birth and Beyond › Twins -- C-Section/Vagina
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Twins -- C-Section/Vagina - Page 3

post #41 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChichosMama View Post
I didn't say twins. Must I really point out that this is for the majority women? Really? Okay.
I did not mean to misinterpret you. The OP is about a twin delivery. Thanks for the clarification.
post #42 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowmom5 View Post
I did not mean to misinterpret you. I apologize for having gone on a tanget about twins.
Its okay. Im pregnant and bleeding so im a double btch. sokay. <3
post #43 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talula Fairie View Post
I think what she meant is that the hospital has all kinds of monitors, machines, nurses, ect...and you don't need all that for a normal, singleton, low risk birth.
That's different then saying a hospital birth is unnecessary- to say the latter is a leap and a generalization.

Quote:
I do think you need a midwife there, however, because birth doesn't always go perfectly and you do need someone there just in case. I don't think saying a hospital is overkill means all birth professionals are always overkill. I know some women choose to UC, and to each their own. I think if you're well researched and prepared, that's fine. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable with it, but more power to women that do. And I can't speak for anyone else, but I've yet to see even a UCer say midwifes are totally unnecessary.
What the PP said was hospitals=unnecessary in "normal" births because there is no need for intervention. Following that same line of thought why would a MW be needed? If all is well why do you need a birth professional at all? I know a lot of mamas don't feel you do- hence UCing. I know that's why I was going to UC. The only reason most women do need a birth professional present is for peace of mind which I believe is very much a necessity. So again going back to the original statement of hospitals being unnecessary in normal births- it's too broad a statement. A hospital birth may be unnecessary for Mama X but for Mama Y who has the same exact "perfect" pregnancy it may be necessary to put her at ease.

Your line of thought that a MW is necessary in case of an emergency is the same one used by those opting for a hospital. Again this is all just going back to "to each their own".

And we are going OT here! Sorry! Just had to address that. It's just really important to me that women are supported and put at ease during birth no matter their choice and that we acknowlegde that a particular choice is not going to provide that for all women everywhere. Mama's feeling are just as important in all of this to make the birth safe.
post #44 of 83
I think the term necessary refers to physical need in that particular post.

As for putting your mind at ease...I do think every woman's mind should be at ease during her birth. But the fact is that scary things can and do happen at the hospital. I think every woman should be informed of those things before she makes her choice.
post #45 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
That's different then saying a hospital birth is unnecessary- to say the latter is a leap and a generalization.

What the PP said was hospitals=unnecessary in "normal" births because there is no need for intervention. Following that same line of thought why would a MW be needed? If all is well why do you need a birth professional at all? I know a lot of mamas don't feel you do- hence UCing. I know that's why I was going to UC. The only reason most women do need a birth professional present is for peace of mind which I believe is very much a necessity. So again going back to the original statement of hospitals being unnecessary in normal births- it's too broad a statement. A hospital birth may be unnecessary for Mama X but for Mama Y who has the same exact "perfect" pregnancy it may be necessary to put her at ease.

Your line of thought that a MW is necessary in case of an emergency is the same one used by those opting for a hospital. Again this is all just going back to "to each their own".

And we are going OT here! Sorry! Just had to address that. It's just really important to me that women are supported and put at ease during birth no matter their choice and that we acknowlegde that a particular choice is not going to provide that for all women everywhere. Mama's feeling are just as important in all of this to make the birth safe.
How is having a midwife intervention? Meh, never mind. You and I obviously have completely different views on this and MDC isn't the best place to have these types of conversations. OP is going to do what she wants, thats what most people do. Im not here to talk down to anyone, nor not be "supportive," however, I stand by what I said. I can write a research paper on it after I have my child.

post #46 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talula Fairie View Post
I think the term necessary refers to physical need in that particular post.

As for putting your mind at ease...I do think every woman's mind should be at ease during her birth. But the fact is that scary things can and do happen at the hospital. I think every woman should be informed of those things before she makes her choice.
I completely agree!

CM~ Some MW's are very invasive. But that's not what I was meaning. You said unnecessary because there is no need for that sort of thing in a "normal" birth and you are right on the physical level. But then why would you need a MW? You wouldn't and they would therefore be just as unnecessary. It really is that simple. MW, like hospitals, are often used just for peace of mind. If we are going off of purely the physical then they are both often times unnecessary.

Thing is birth isn't just a physical action. Not by a long shot.
post #47 of 83
Mamas, I am going to move this to Birth and Beyond since it's more of a general birth discussion than a DDC-specific one. Be gentle with one another, please.
post #48 of 83
Actually, even a normal low risk birth could need certain tricks when delivering a baby. Like unwrapping a wrapped umbilical cord, or doing the Gaskin maneuver for a stuck baby. Those are things that are harder to do by yourself. Just because you don't NEED the hospital doesn't mean you will never need anyone. It doesn't have to be a choice between UC or hospital.
post #49 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by L.A.Mamma View Post
This is my first pregnancy, so labor seems quite daunting. I'm seeing a traditional OBGYN and an MFM. I'm a high risk pregnancy b/c of twins, 3 previous miscarriages, had to get knocked up through IVF and maybe my asthma.

I'll admit it, labor and delivery sound hella scary!! My doc has basically told me he'll only do a Vaginal if both are head down.

I'll tell you my thoughts:

Vaginal -- natural always seems better. I'm a pretty green type of girl. Recovery time is less. Though the idea of tearing down to my bummy is scary. I also worry something will go wrong so to speak.

C-Section -- This is selfish, but I like my vagina the way it is, lol. But on a more serioius note, I'm just afraid something will go wrong with a Vaginal. I got pregnant through IVF; fertility/pregnancy, have not been my friend thus far. It's been a struggle and I just don't want anything happening to my babies. I guess I'm afraid to press my luck, since this pregnancy is such a miracle.

I feel like if both babies are head down and there are no medical obstacles, I should go and do a Vaginal. My husband thinks I'm crazy. What do you all think?

If one is in breach, I'm really just darn scared and may opt for a C-section.

UGH, I just don't know!!!!!!!!!!!!!

POINT OF CLARIFICATION AFTER READING COMMENTS:
Ladies, point of clarification. The tearing is a fear -- it's not a deal breaker here. It would be immature imo to not have a vag birth simply b/c of the fear of tearing. Obviously our bodies change after child birth=)

I have had twins twice and attended many mamas of twins. A cesarean recovery is no joke. Now picture trying to take care of two babies and recover from major abdominal surgery. It makes breastfeeding more difficult and then there is the pain factor. I would far rather have pain with a purpose that has an end point (babies arrive).

Please take my word that you need to find a different OB. You are not high risk, you are special needs. In other words you need to be cared for more closely. But, if you carry to 36+ weeks you are probably going to have nothing to worry about at all. I would call a local Bradley teacher and ask for a recommendation for a midwife/doctor practice that do a good job with twins. (I teach Bradley and we are required to be knowledgeable about good practices in our areas) The midwife (if she is a true and good one) will take care of you not just physically, but guide the mental and emotional ups and downs of a pregnancy times two. The OB is there if you have complications, but if not the midwife can attend. Find a practice that understands that Baby B can be in any freaking position and come out. Once Baby A has made the way, a skilled midwife or OB can get Baby B out and they almost always come out fast. I had one client whose pushing with first baby was long and tough (because she could not feel effective pushing from the over strong epidural). She was ready to let them section the second one. I promised her the second would not only be easier but that she would ENJOY pushing her out. Immediately after Baby B flew out like butter--she agreed with me. I would also strongly recommend you take a Bradley class so you and your husband have a very complete and personalized childbirth class. Lastly, about your husband. I tell my folks no vagina no vote, frankly, but is he prepared to take care of all the cooking, cleaning and diapering and pacing with crying babies for not just days but weeks after this birth or wealthy enough to hire that out? Because surgical recovery means a 3-6 week rest and take it easy period for you. A natural birth is usually 1 week of total rest and recovery (maybe getting up and going downstairs once or twice a day briefly) and a second week of slowly getting more active and independent.

Re tearing: a good midwife will be good at protecting your perineum with hot compresses and a neutral or homeopathic oil, there are things you can do prenatally to have a more prepared perineal area, twins are generally smaller at birth even at term so less likely to tear at all. I have passed 6 babies through and have tightened up just fine with lots of Kegel exercises. There are also physical therapists who specialize in restoring the pelvic floor. In France all women get this therapy through their healthcare system. Here you would need a referral from a midwife/OB.

Feel free to PM me if you like.
post #50 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talula Fairie View Post
Actually, even a normal low risk birth could need certain tricks when delivering a baby. Like unwrapping a wrapped umbilical cord, or doing the Gaskin maneuver for a stuck baby. Those are things that are harder to do by yourself. Just because you don't NEED the hospital doesn't mean you will never need anyone. It doesn't have to be a choice between UC or hospital.
Again, I agree. But you do realize you can do those things yourself? Just ask the UC mamas. Most things that go wrong aren't really that big of an emergency and can be remedied quickly without a birth professional present. So we're right back to it being about peace of mind.
post #51 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by magstphil View Post
Again, I agree. But you do realize you can do those things yourself? Just ask the UC mamas. Most things that go wrong aren't really that big of an emergency and can be remedied quickly without a birth professional present. So we're right back to it being about peace of mind.
I don't think it's just about peace of mind. I just don't. Not saying UC is horribly dangerous or anything like that, I just do not think it is that simple.

I also did not say you can't do those things by yourself, I said they are *harder* meaning that I do realize it is possible to do those things yourself.
post #52 of 83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talula Fairie View Post
I would research this yourself if I were you.

Here's some bullet points you might find interesting:

The US has the second worst infant mortality rate in the developed world. If you look only at the countries that had at least 400,000 births, it's ranked last.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/HEALTH/paren...mothers.index/
https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat.../2091rank.html

The US has one of the worst maternal mortality rates in the developed world.

In every other developed country (except Brazil, and they are the ones with the worst infant mortality rate in the developed world) including Great Britain, France, Germany, Spain, Holland, The Netherlands, Japan, ect...midwives attend 70 to 80 percent of all births, and the OB/GYN doctors are there to attend the smaller percentage that develop complications. This is the proven system, and the US stands alone.

Birth with a midwife (at a birth center or at home) is proven to be as safe if not safer than hospital birth. Midwives come to your house with pitocin, items for infant resuscitation, dopplers, other drugs for postpartum hemorrhage, oxygyn, ect. The myth is that everything has to go perfectly well and that a midwife isn't trained for complications, but actually, they are just as trained in birth if not more so than OB/GYNs (the exception to this would be surgical procedures of course, which is what OBs are specialized in. In fact, that's what they're best for). Most OB doctors have no idea what the Gaskin maneuver is, for example.

Midwives know all kinds of tricks like that for getting a baby out. Most OBs also have little training if any at all in vaginal breech birth, whereas midwives do. And if there is a point where a midwife realizes the woman needs intervention, they are trained to make the judgment call in time and transfer to a hospital.

This is YOUR baby. Not your family's baby. Most doctors don't have a high opinion of midwifery in general...but you know what? Most doctors are wrong. If they weren't? The US would have the #1 infant and maternal mortality rate in the world, since only 8% of US women deliver with a midwife (and of those, only .05% deliver at home). And we don't.

But don't take my word for it. Read some books on it! The Thinking Woman's Guide to A Better Birth is a good place to start, as well as any article about birth in Mothering or any of the Mothering books, and Ina May's Guide To Childbirth. You may also want to watch The Business Of Being Born and Pregnant in America. Check out some informative websites too, this forum is great as well as gentlebirth.org which lists many of the studies in relation to the safety of midwifery.

I would just like to add that whatever you want to do is your choice, and I totally respect either decision especially considering your situation. I just want you to make that choice based on accurate information, not what people are telling you. And like I was saying, don't just listen to me. Do some research yourself on it. And do look into different care providers, especially if you don't feel comfortable with your current one.
Yes, indeed, what she said.
I live in a country where the perinatal mortality rate is less than half of what it is in the USA, and the standard here is that you have a midwife with you for the birth, just a midwife. The doc./obgyn. is only called if there are complications or a situation where the midwife needs assistance, but they are rare, usually it's just a midwife and that's fine.
Here, only 4,4 infants in 1000 die (perinatal), and less than 2 in 1000 die during birth (when it's not a premature birth), so it's mostly sick infants who die. And that's actually so low that they don't expect it to ever get lower.
post #53 of 83
First, a random observation. I'm pregnant (term) for the fifth time. I've also had three miscarriages. All of my children have been singletons, and all have arrived via c-section. My SIL has four kids, including a set of twins. Her children were all born vaginally. My sister has four kids, including a set of twins. Three of them were born vaginally, with her second twin being a c-section. (FWIW, after three labours, one of them very long, and one c-section, my sister told me that she "wouldn't wish a c-section on my worst enemy". Make of that what you will.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by L.A.Mamma View Post
This is my first pregnancy, so labor seems quite daunting. I'm seeing a traditional OBGYN and an MFM. I'm a high risk pregnancy b/c of twins, 3 previous miscarriages, had to get knocked up through IVF and maybe my asthma.
Do your miscarriages classify you as high risk? I've also had three, and nobody ever mentioned it as a risk factor. That seems kind of odd. My ex-SIL also had asthma, and nobody ever mentioned that.

Quote:
I'll admit it, labor and delivery sound hella scary!! My doc has basically told me he'll only do a Vaginal if both are head down.
Personal peeve...your doctor won't "do a Vaginal" under any circumstances. You say "he", so I'm assuming it's a male. He doesn't have a vagina, so if your babies are a vaginal birth, you are the one doing it. The way doctors claim the credit for birth drives me nuts.

Quote:
Vaginal -- natural always seems better. I'm a pretty green type of girl. Recovery time is less. Though the idea of tearing down to my bummy is scary. I also worry something will go wrong so to speak.

C-Section -- This is selfish, but I like my vagina the way it is, lol. But on a more serioius note, I'm just afraid something will go wrong with a Vaginal. I got pregnant through IVF; fertility/pregnancy, have not been my friend thus far. It's been a struggle and I just don't want anything happening to my babies. I guess I'm afraid to press my luck, since this pregnancy is such a miracle.
I have various comments about this.

1) A c-section, despite the spin from doctors, isn't actually a guarantee that nothing will happen to your babies. If nothing else, they're at higher risk for breathing problems and an NICU stay with a scheduled cesarean. In addition, if you decide to have more children (no idea how you feel about that), they - and you - are at even higher risk because of having had the surgery. Surgery's not a guarantee.

2) My vagina is just the way it always was, according to cultural myth, since I've never pushed a baby out. However, I've lost a lot of tone in my pelvic floor, due largely to multiple pregnancies, so it's not as simple as that. In addition, I find kegels extremely difficult since I have permanent pelvic nerve damage from my third c-section. It affects my ability to isolate my pelvic floor muscle (can't remember the actual name atm) and I had no clitoral sensation for six months.

3) Things can go wrong with a c-section, too. As I said in point 1 - there are no guarantees. I don't know how much research you've done, but the risks to you, while small, are greater with a section than with a natural birth.

Quote:
I feel like if both babies are head down and there are no medical obstacles, I should go and do a Vaginal. My husband thinks I'm crazy. What do you all think?
After four c-sections, I think anybody who opts for a scheduled section without a solid reason is crazy. That's just me. I realize we all have psychological factors, but it's not something I can wrap my brain around no matter how hard I try. Why does your husband think you're crazy? Does he think your belly was designed to pull a baby out of, and your vagina isn't?

My, admittedly biased, opinion is that a c-section is something that should be done when necessary, not when a doctor deems it prudent.

I might also add that I had a very long, hard labour with my last baby, who ended up stillborn by c-section. (Reproduction hasn't been kind to me, either.) I'd trade that whole labour for 15 minutes of c-section recovery. Natural childbirth at least has the advantage that, as long as things go well, most of the pain comes before you have a baby to look after. The fact that sections are done so often for twins boggles me - the mom now has surgery to recover from, and two babies to look after.

Anyway, that's just my take. I'm scheduling a repeat c-section in June. I'm doing so because dh and I agreed before ttc again (he doesn't want to go through what he went through with Aaron ever again), because I don't want social services or the police in my face or my family again. I still wish I could run away and give birth under a tree.
post #54 of 83
Okay - I've read further in the thread, and come across some of the "doctors vs. midwives" discussion. So, I'll throw in my further two bits:

I had a GP for prenatal care with ds2. When I went into the hospital, the OB on-call did a c-section, after I said "no". Not impressed - traumatized, in fact.

I had a GP for primary care, and an OB consult twice, when pregnant with dd. I was going to have a VBAC...until she turned up breech at 39 weeks, and I was told it was "impossible" for her to turn, and bullied into a repeat. Horrible, horrible experience - the incision pain lasted 7-8 months, and dd had breathing problems. (She's also the only one of my babies who was jaundiced - no idea if that has anything to do with being the only baby I didn't labour with or not.)

I fought for a VBA2C in the system with ds2. I had concurrent "care" from my GP and the OB I'd seen with dd. I was coerced into another section at 41w, 5d by the OB, who threatened to drop me from care. Looking back, I really wish I'd taken him up on his generous offer.

I went through hell with all of these. None of those doctors has ever followed up, asked how I am, or anything else. They were soooo concerned about "my" health that they pushed me into unwanted surgery - but not concerned enough to find out how I was afterwards.

I attempted a HBA3C with a "lay" midwife. Things went very bad. She did recommend a transfer, and I finally went (didn't go quickly enough, because my experiences have made me too afraid of the way I'll be treated in a hospital). The hospital staff didn't think there was anything major wrong, until the emergency section was called for my dead son. (He wasn't dead when we transferred - we heard his heart stop on the monitor, and that's when the section was called.)

So...six months later, my midwife came to my house with flowers for me to plant, in honour of my son (and a couple cupcakes for my kids, because she remembered that the six month anniversary of my son's death was also dd's 5th birthday). She's checked back in with me a few times since.

I've caved and I'm having another section. I have a new OB, and for an OB, she's awesome. I still came home in tears after I went back into the medical system. Aside from women who end up dealing with abusive midwives (I know they do exist), I cannot fathom why any woman who had received midwifery care would voluntarily go back to the medical model. I'm finding the "care" I'm receiving absolutely depressing, and I hate being back on the assembly line.

I pray that dd never, ever sees an OB.
post #55 of 83
Lisa, your story is heartwrenching. Just wanted to say I appreciate your willingness to share and give you a big
post #56 of 83
Lisa~

Quote:
I cannot fathom why any woman who had received midwifery care would voluntarily go back to the medical model.
For me it is a lack of choice but if I had to choose between going back to the MW I had and going to my current OB I would leap into the arms of my OB. He is far more gentle and caring then the MW who wouldn't allow me to labor out of the pool, forced me to do things I didn't want to do, stuck needles in me with little and no warning (while in labor and at prenatal visits), and then decided to call me hours after birth to tell me I am a failure and that I wanted to fail and that she had never seen a woman so intent on not having a baby as me. Not all OBs and not all MWs are created equal.

ETA- I don't want to sound anti-MW because I am so not! I would love to be able to have the birth I envision (with a caring MW in my own home) and I mourn that loss. I am just trying to point out that MWs aren't alway the kind loving women people expect them to be. My OB, on the other hand, goes out of his way to talk with his patients and treat them like humans (a shock I know. I didn't trust OBs until I met him either).
post #57 of 83
Maggie, I think your story is so sad I'm so sorry that happened to you. If I were in your shoes and had to choose between that person and an OB, I would go with the OB too! I think most people would.

I had a negative experience with two different "midwives" (medwives is more like it) at the hospital. One of them randomly decided to break my water even though I was 1cm dilated...that was my first birth...my second birth, I had a midwife strip my membranes at the beginning of my induction to "get things going." She didn't even warn me first! I thought it was just a cervical check :
post #58 of 83
Maggie: That's why I mentioned abusive midwives. IMO, stories like that prove that one doesn't always get midwifery care, even from a midwife, yk?

My current OB is pretty cool, especially as OBs go. She says things like, "what things can we do to make the experience (the next section) better for you? I know it won't be good, no matter what". I'm still sort of shocked that she was actually hearing what I said. She also looked really PO'd when I told her I'd said "no" to my first section, and got cut, anyway...
post #59 of 83
L.A. Mamma, I am also having trouble figuring out what part of your history makes you high risk. Twins are riskier than singletons, but there are degrees to everything. Risk isn't just low or high. The miscarriages don't affect any of your risks in this pregnancy, strange as that may seem, nor does IVF. Having trouble getting pregnant and/or staying pregnant doesn't equate to trouble delivering. Asthma, I don't know as much about, but it doesn't seem like a huge thing.

My mom is a doctor, and I am also pretty comfy with the medical establishment. For that reason, I was fine with the highly medical experience I had with my first pregnancy, right up until labor, when it was suddenly not okay. Shaking up your OB team in mid-pregnancy is better, IMO, than wishing you had when you're in labor.

The OB practice I went to had some doctors (like the one I saw for prenatal visits) who were very comfortable with vaginal delivery, and some who didn't think anyone should have a baby vaginally ever. The problem was, I had no control over which of those doctors would actually attend my delivery. (I got lucky. And now that I'm pregnant again, I'm not going back there to take my chances.)

Also keep in mind: medical opinion is not some monolith. There are plenty of brilliant doctors who disagree with each other, practice in their different ways, and achieve equally good results.

I think it's a bit silly of your doctor to insist that he won't let you deliver vaginally unless both babies are head down, because the second baby does so often flip once the first one is out of the way.

Also remember, it's not like your choices are limited to obstetrical surgery or home birth. Most midwives work in hospitals, in conjunction with obstetricians. IF they judge that you need more help and more medicine, it's their job to get you to someone who can provide that.

One of the reasons I'm switching to a midwifery practice staffed by CNMs is the observation that most of the care I received during pregnancy and delivery was provided by nurses. Nurses weighed and measured and chatted and ran the doppler before the doctor came in, took a ceremonial poke at my belly and asked if I had any questions. Nurses held my hand and fetched me water, and listened to the monitors and made my husband eat lunch so he wouldn't pass out while I was in labor. Doctors stood by and had opinions about what I should do, but until I was in the pushing phase, they were only there for a few minutes at a time. I was in the pushing phase for five hours, and the only thing I remember about it was the crowd of goggled, gloved doctors standing by and waiting for something to happen. The nurses were clearly capable of handling the whole show, and I liked them a lot better.
post #60 of 83
Hey, OP I just wanted to weigh in with my 2 cents...

My first was a section.... recovery was awful. So sick I couldn't even hold my baby during inital bonding time (mil did it and he loves her sooo much!) Bonding, breastfeeding, everything was horrible. Clothes hurt to wear. I couldn't lift (anything including the baby), do stairs, I was a nasty person to my husband, felt like a failure, etc. and so on. Hurt lots, took a long time to heal. Even showering was a chore.

Fast forward to baby #2... textbook vbac... bonding wonderful, colostrum leaking all over my gown, got skin to skin time, called my girlfriends, got to walk and eat and shower and pee, went on a 1 mile walk with new baby, ds1, and my sister the DAY we got home from the hospital. Recovery was amazing.

I would not wish a section on anyone, it is major surgery, worse than any surgery I've had (appendectomy, breast reduction, laproscopy, wrist repair). It had lingering emotional and physical effect.

Now.... I've never had twins so this is a whole new ball game. There are other concerns for twins than singletons (although I would think a vaginal vertex/breech delivery would be straightforward enough for an OBGYN). However, IMO, if you have the opportunity to try for a vaginal delivery, I think you should go for it!!! Really, it is truly a miracle and nothing, nothing, nothing can describe that feeling of being able to birth your own babe.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Birth and Beyond
Mothering › Mothering Forums › Pregnancy and Birth › Birth and Beyond › Twins -- C-Section/Vagina