School district mailed Boy Scout recruiting letter & it offends me - Page 2

[Kristine233]

I've heard the boyscout controversy but it just hasn't affected us much. My son did scouts for the first time this year and we are a very non-religious family. Even though I'm totally non-religious I still do scout meetings when its my turn to do the parent led nights. (to help the leaders some of us parents help lead nights and activities) And I'm definitely not homophobic either (very adamant about equal rights to marriage etc). But for us, boy scouts has been more about socialization and getting him involved with peers in our community. I figure we, as his parents, are in charge of setting the example for him when it comes to acceptance and morals. He'll be exposed to ideas that are very different than ours all his life and some on a very deep level. So I don't exclude him from things just because some parent office of the organization is not in line with my morals and ideas, its all part of the life experience and all learning opportunities.

But, in reference to the OP's concern about where the letter originated, I do agree with that. No matter how much I support or don't support (or whatever) an organization I think all of those should be kept separate from the schools. I'd call them on it and point out how offensive it could be to families within the district that they'd personally support any specific organization, and point out how sticky the whole thing could get. I think they used extremely bad judgment.

[Treasuremapper]

Personally, and I may be in the minority here, I would let it go. BSA is so deeply ingrained in the public school consciousness that you would run the risk of looking like a troublemaker and that could backfire.

There are so many things about the public schools in our area that displeased me or enraged me that I just looked at the situation and pulled my dd out after three months. I was pleasant, I was nonconfrontational, but we left. Trust me, I wanted to say a lot. I could go on for pages. But my daughters were friends and neighbors with those other kids. Therefore, after careful comsideration, I decided, for once in my life, to say nothing unless the matter directly affected our own daughter, ie, a substitute was unfair to our daughter, they would not let our daughter drink water at certain times, etc. I did not get into the basic underlying ideals of how they treated children.

But if you choose to take a stand on this issue, good luck.

[mommy68]

I would raise a stink about it. But I have always disliked BSA anyway. I don't think any outside organization should be able to try and recruit children that way, especially through public schools. If it were a private school or a church then I'd understand more but I completely understand how you feel.

[spedteacher30]

nevermind--the post I was responding to get deleted. sorry this got bumped unnecessarily.

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by Treasuremapper 

Personally, and I may be in the minority here, I would let it go. BSA is so deeply ingrained in the public school consciousness that you would run the risk of looking like a troublemaker and that could backfire.
 

Yes, it's just like not allowing African Americans to vote or eat in certain restaurants was so ingrained in Southern culture that people made the exact.same.argument that you're making. MLK's Letter from Birmingham Jail has some eloquent passages about how he was told to let things go or ask for only gradual change and that he viewed that as just as problematic as openly hostile people. Boy Scouts of America took a very public stand that they oppose homosexuality. Fine - then you shouldn't have a space in our schools either. And if you do, those of us who support equality *should* make a big deal out of it. Schools cannot simultaneously propose anti-bullying campaigns aimed at ending LGBTQ taunting at the same time they're supporting a group with an openly anti-gay stance. It's wrong. Yes, OP, I would make a big deal out of it.

[wannabesmc]

Hey, I just wanted to put this out there. For those of you who like the idea of scouting but either have religious beliefs that would exclude you from BSA or just don't care to support an institution that is openly discriminatory there is another option. Take a look at www.spiralscouts.org. Totally non-discriminatory for any reason. THIS is the scouts that my kids will be joining someday.

[Sue the Shrew]

Hi, I am a 12-year dedicated Scout Leader in Massachusetts and this too would offend me. I am sorry this was handled that way but please give the Scouting program a 'fighting' chance?  Cub Scouting offers your son a LOT of life skills and interpersonal skills that he won't get from school clubs or sports. Boy Scouting will give him skills he will use a lifetime; every Boy Scout merit badge is a potential 'career' he might choose some day--and there are 125 of them! I think your argument is justified.

[whatsnextmom]

"Campfire Boys and Girls" is another option. They do not discriminate against anyone. People think of Campfire as a girl's organization but they went co-ed decades ago. You can have all boy troops, all girl troops and co-ed troops. Great organization, great skill building.

I too would not have my son in Boy Scouts. Certainly, there are some wonderful people involved. We know several. However, all a boy has to come across is a single jerk who decides to kick them out and strip them from their merits. All the wonderful people in the organization couldn't protect them from the charter the organizations leaders supports.

Personally, I found it offensive when Boy Scout stuff came out in school once but I decided it wasn't a hill to die on. It was the ONLY year that the local district allowed them though.

[jaam]

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom 

"Campfire Boys and Girls" is another option. They do not discriminate against anyone. People think of Campfire as a girl's organization but they went co-ed decades ago. You can have all boy troops, all girl troops and co-ed troops. Great organization, great skill building.

I was a girl scout, and also did Campfire and LOVED Campfire! It was so much more fun! It was pretty much 50/50 boy/girl and that was in about '85. Dd does girlscouts and loves it so we'll continue, but that has ds asking when he can do boyscouts, which I'd like to avoid. I don't think there's a Campfire group around here but this has me thinking maybe I need to look into starting one! 

As I side note, I had no idea it wasn't legal for private groups to advertise via public schools. Dd brings home little flyers ALL the time for stuff from her public school. Hmm, maybe it's different state-by-state?

[JudiAU]

I would go on the warpath. Tax dollars have no business supporting bigotry. Schools officials have no business supporting bigotry. If your area allows BSA to operate in their facilities, then the letter should have come from the BSA and paid at their expense.

There is no way, NO WAY I would allow them to solicit my child to join an organization that is not open to all students that were included in the mailing. I would be annoyed to receive it even without the school's input.

If schools have this as part of their culture than this is the year to change it.

[JudiAU]

Originally Posted by Ceili 

Originally Posted by BCFD

Are the Girl Scouts affiliated with any of this?

No, the Girl Scouts is a completely different organization, they are not affiliated with the Boy Scouts in anyway.

The girl scouts have none of these issues. 

[numericmama]

Originally Posted by Sue the Shrew 

Hi, I am a 12-year dedicated Scout Leader in Massachusetts and this too would offend me. I am sorry this was handled that way but please give the Scouting program a 'fighting' chance?  Cub Scouting offers your son a LOT of life skills and interpersonal skills that he won't get from school clubs or sports. Boy Scouting will give him skills he will use a lifetime; every Boy Scout merit badge is a potential 'career' he might choose some day--and there are 125 of them! I think your argument is justified.

I would love to give Boy Scouts a "fighting" chance, however, as an atheist family we are not welcome. So I guess that we have learned the life and interpersonal skills that Boy Scouts has to offer us. "YOU ARE NOT WELCOME" is very clear. 

I am teaching my children to stand with people who are discriminated against - such as gays. It's too bad that Boy Scouts discriminate - but there it is. My sons have a moral obligation to speak out and not just go along. 

My nephew is in Boy Scouts, but that is fine for them as they are a homophobic family anyway. 

Edited by numericmama - 3/23/12 at 4:52pm

[numericmama]

Spiral scouts looks beautiful and more in line with our life philosophy. Thank you for sharing that idea. I was thinking of 4 H but it didn't feel quite right to me. This may be a better choice for us.

http://www.spiralscouts.org.

[Coral123]

Originally Posted by Ceili 

Originally Posted by BCFD

Are the Girl Scouts affiliated with any of this?

No, the Girl Scouts is a completely different organization, they are not affiliated with the Boy Scouts in anyway.

Girl Scouts at the level of the service unit or council will sometimes offer joint activities with the boy scouts...not sure how this fits in with the goals of girl scouts at the national level.

In addition many parents who have a girl in scouts might also have a boy in scouts as well.  A mom who is a leader for girl scouts might also be involved in boy scouts as well.

Not saying this is true in all cases, but at the troop level there can be quite a bit of mixed activities.
 

[campzout]

I am proud to be a Boy Scout Leader and have seen the Scouting Program over the course of many years help SO many boys become young men of GREAT character, strong morals, and are very compassionate and willing to help ANYONE in need. Why do you find this bad? Perhaps because you've never been in the program to see the REAL emphasis and purpose of what we do. Not ONE of our boys OR our Leaders would EVER treat anyone badly because of someone's race, religion, background, OR sexual preference. We teach compassion and caring for all. To me, it's the BEST program out there. And I'm proud to be a part of it. 

[beanma]

This is an old thread. Not sure why we need to dig it back up. I think the issues were well covered the first couple of times around.

[NiteNicole]

Originally Posted by campzout 

I am proud to be a Boy Scout Leader and have seen the Scouting Program over the course of many years help SO many boys become young men of GREAT character, strong morals, and are very compassionate and willing to help ANYONE in need. Why do you find this bad? Perhaps because you've never been in the program to see the REAL emphasis and purpose of what we do. Not ONE of our boys OR our Leaders would EVER treat anyone badly because of someone's race, religion, background, OR sexual preference. We teach compassion and caring for all. To me, it's the BEST program out there. And I'm proud to be a part of it. 

So imagine for a minute that you couldn't be part of it.

[~Adorkable~]

Originally Posted by campzout 

I am proud to be a Boy Scout Leader and have seen the Scouting Program over the course of many years help SO many boys become young men of GREAT character, strong morals, and are very compassionate and willing to help ANYONE in need. Why do you find this bad? Perhaps because you've never been in the program to see the REAL emphasis and purpose of what we do. Not ONE of our boys OR our Leaders would EVER treat anyone badly because of someone's race, religion, background, OR sexual preference. We teach compassion and caring for all. To me, it's the BEST program out there. And I'm proud to be a part of it. 

to you it might be a great program, but it clearly does not teach compassion for all.

from their own documents:

The BSA policy is: “While the BSA does not proactively inquire about the sexual orientation of employees, volunteers, or members, we do not grant membership to individuals who are open or avowed homosexuals or who engage in behavior that would become a distraction to the mission of the BSA.”

this shows a compleate lack of compassion for the difernces between our fellow humans.

you leaders do in fact treat this people very differnt, the close the doors on them, and in that, they teach the boys who have joined that it is ok to shut out folks that are different from you. This is discriminatory segregation at it's core.

Originally Posted by beanma 

This is an old thread. Not sure why we need to dig it back up. I think the issues were well covered the first couple of times around.

i think things like this come back up because new moms and dad have kids that become this age and for them it is not covered yet.

in this particular case it came back up because someone associated to the scouts clearly found it in a google search and registered to voice their opinion.

it is worthwhile to dig back up because the issue is still happening.

it is worthwhile for new moms to know that their case is not an isolated case.

it is worthwhile to dig back up to show that there are alternatives, i for one did not know of some of these other groups.

it is also a way good to help stand behind someone who is looking for the strength to change the status quo

[JudiAU]

Originally Posted by campzout 

I am proud to be a Boy Scout Leader and have seen the Scouting Program over the course of many years help SO many boys become young men of GREAT character, strong morals, and are very compassionate and willing to help ANYONE in need. Why do you find this bad? Perhaps because you've never been in the program to see the REAL emphasis and purpose of what we do. Not ONE of our boys OR our Leaders would EVER treat anyone badly because of someone's race, religion, background, OR sexual preference. We teach compassion and caring for all. To me, it's the BEST program out there. And I'm proud to be a part of it. 

BSA can be a great program for "so many boys" and I could care less. It is all of the kids and families BSA's bigotry leaves behind that make me unwilling to have anything to do with the organization. It also makes me absolutely livid at the thought that public insitutions would support private bigotry.

My nephew because an Eagle scout this year and my other nephew will likely become an Eagle scout next year. And no, the positives do not outweigh the negatives.

[mtiger]

Originally Posted by campzout 

I am proud to be a Boy Scout Leader and have seen the Scouting Program over the course of many years help SO many boys become young men of GREAT character, strong morals, and are very compassionate and willing to help ANYONE in need. Why do you find this bad? Perhaps because you've never been in the program to see the REAL emphasis and purpose of what we do. Not ONE of our boys OR our Leaders would EVER treat anyone badly because of someone's race, religion, background, OR sexual preference. We teach compassion and caring for all. To me, it's the BEST program out there. And I'm proud to be a part of it. 

I hope so, campzout. That was not our experience. My son, who went through Tigers and Webelos with the young men he moved to BSA with, was shunned by the boys AND the fathers when he got a bit "alternative". He had a Goth stage in his freshman year. And they all decided that he was gay. (He's not. Not that it matters.) From that point on? No one wanted to bunk with him on camping trips. He was no longer invited to group trips or sleepovers. And so on and so forth. He hung on for a year. And then had enough, and quit to focus on other interests. But his giving up was solely due to how he was treated by the boys and their fathers. And yes, I spoke with the leaders.

I still think Boy Scouts has a lot to offer. For some boys. But not all.