School district mailed Boy Scout recruiting letter & it offends me - Page 3

[lauren]

Originally Posted by mtiger 

I hope so, campzout. That was not our experience. My son, who went through Tigers and Webelos with the young men he moved to BSA with, was shunned by the boys AND the fathers when he got a bit "alternative". He had a Goth stage in his freshman year. And they all decided that he was gay. (He's not. Not that it matters.) From that point on? No one wanted to bunk with him on camping trips. He was no longer invited to group trips or sleepovers. And so on and so forth. He hung on for a year. And then had enough, and quit to focus on other interests. But his giving up was solely due to how he was treated by the boys and their fathers. And yes, I spoke with the leaders.

I still think Boy Scouts has a lot to offer. For some boys. But not all.

We also had a very negative experience after a certain point. The lack of tolerance for diversity of any kind seems to be all through the organization.

[mtiger]

I know a lot of Boy Scouts who are fine, upstanding citizens. One of them is the one Scout who stood by my son. I also know some who do not live up to the BOy Scout oath. One is an Eagle Scout, who I *know* cheated regularly in HS. It's like any other group - some are amazing, and some stink.

I still feel BSA can offer a lot to some boys.
 

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Originally Posted by mtiger 
I still feel BSA can offer a lot to some boys.

And that's great -- for those boys and their families.  But its not open to all boys or all families and thus has NO business being promoted by schools or given special priority or privileges by public institutions like schools or government.  Its great that the option is available for those who it suits but it shouldn't be promoted by the school.

[PhillyMama]

My daughter came home on Friday and mentioned that the girls in her grade had a "dance party" at school that day.  When I asked where the boys were, she said they were in a class to learn about Boy Scouts and if they wanted to join BS.

I was incensed that the school would take kids out of class to let BSA, with admitted discrimination practices, recruit kids WITHOUT their parents there!!

I have an email request for a meeting with the principal to hear her reasoning about this and to register my disappointment in the school administration for allowing this.

I don't have a son, but am very offended by the BSA's bigotry and think that if they are going to recruit new members they should only be allowed to do that through the parents - NOT directly to the kids without the parents being present. Not ok in my book.  At all.

I'm just really shocked by the whole thing.

[MovnMama]

Originally Posted by wannabesmc 

Hey, I just wanted to put this out there. For those of you who like the idea of scouting but either have religious beliefs that would exclude you from BSA or just don't care to support an institution that is openly discriminatory there is another option. Take a look at www.spiralscouts.org. Totally non-discriminatory for any reason. THIS is the scouts that my kids will be joining someday.

Originally Posted by whatsnextmom 

"Campfire Boys and Girls" is another option. They do not discriminate against anyone. People think of Campfire as a girl's organization but they went co-ed decades ago. You can have all boy troops, all girl troops and co-ed troops. Great organization, great skill building.

I too would not have my son in Boy Scouts. Certainly, there are some wonderful people involved. We know several. However, all a boy has to come across is a single jerk who decides to kick them out and strip them from their merits. All the wonderful people in the organization couldn't protect them from the charter the organizations leaders supports.

Personally, I found it offensive when Boy Scout stuff came out in school once but I decided it wasn't a hill to die on. It was the ONLY year that the local district allowed them though.

Originally Posted by numericmama 

Spiral scouts looks beautiful and more in line with our life philosophy. Thank you for sharing that idea. I was thinking of 4 H but it didn't feel quite right to me. This may be a better choice for us.

http://www.spiralscouts.org.

Another fantastic alternative scouting organization: http://bpsa-us.org/

Inclusive and coed, from what I can tell.

Scouting is a great activity for kids - but no son of mine will ever join BSA. The discriminatory policies are unacceptable.

[lawchick70]

So you don't want the school sending home flyers for any organizations or clubs you disagree with? Would you have a problem with the bible club? the jewish student association? the muslim student association. Get over yourself. Just had one of you people attack me in front of my son while he was selling popcorn for the scouts. Yea yell at little kids parents. Cause a scene in front of a grocery store. You are all the intolerant ones. Wanting to have your way and get people into trouble for having a club. Oh no, kids want to love their country, help people and grow up to be good. Oh the horrors....

[lawchick70]

maybe you might be more concerned that the school is taking kids out of class for things other than education...I mean noone should take class time for boy scouts but the girls having a dance party? your school has bigger problems than the boy scouts...
 

[lawchick70]

and neither should footbaths for muslims or changing football practice to 1am so people can celebrate ramadan....

[mtiger]

Originally Posted by lawchick70 

So you don't want the school sending home flyers for any organizations or clubs you disagree with? Would you have a problem with the bible club? the jewish student association? the muslim student association. Get over yourself. Just had one of you people attack me in front of my son while he was selling popcorn for the scouts. Yea yell at little kids parents. Cause a scene in front of a grocery store. You are all the intolerant ones. Wanting to have your way and get people into trouble for having a club. Oh no, kids want to love their country, help people and grow up to be good. Oh the horrors....

There really is a big difference between an in-school, student-run organization (i.e. Bible Club, Jewish Student Union, etc.) and an outside organization soliciting membership (Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, a local karate school., etc.). The former belong in the schools. The latter? Not so much. I'm sure you can understand that.

Yes, the person who yelled at you was out of line. But... Perhaps s/he had a similar experience with Scouts as my son/I did and took it out on the first Scout representative s/he saw. Inappropriate? Probably. But I can understand it. There was a point when I was so hurt by how my son was treated (and the repercussions wrt our family friendships), taht I may have done the same. When your child is hurt - most parents go into tiger mode.

[beanma]

I have no problem with flyers sent home for the Boy Scouts in the Friday Folder that every child brings home from our local elementaries. We also get flyers for other kids organizations like the Y, town rec dept, Karate schools, etc. I just throw 'em all the in the recycling. I do have a problem with what the OP described as a letter recruiting boys on district letterhead. That's over the line to me. Certainly the other poster's description boys being pulled out of class to be recruited sounds over the line, too.

I also have no problem with little boys selling Boy Scout popcorn (except I think it's gross popcorn) as long as it's not a school sponsored event.

My dad was a Scoutmaster for many years before there was an official policy banning gay scouts and gay and lesbian leaders and he helped a whole lot of boys over the years. Probably among the large number of scouts he worked with there were a few who were gay. He was very accepting of kids who were different, helping developmentally disabled kids, black kids, white kids — he even took a few stray boys into our home (not my fave thing when I was a teen) and I'm sure he would have been accepting of an out gay scout. It's such a shame that the national organization is so close-minded and intolerant on this issue because I think there are great leaders and great troops who can do a lot for kids, but this pointedly intolerant position needs to change. I'm so glad I never had to disappoint my dad by not allowing a child of mine to join the scouts. It was a non-issue for our family because we have two girls, and he has since passed on. 

I'm heartened by people like Zach Wahls (eagle scout with two moms) who are agitating for change w/in the organization: http://www.advocate.com/business/2012/09/20/zach-wahls-asks-intel-stop-funding-discriminatory-boy-scouts .

Edited by beanma - 9/29/12 at 6:45pm

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by lawchick70 

and neither should footbaths for muslims or changing football practice to 1am so people can celebrate ramadan....

You're actually representing the bigotry in Boy Scouts, which is hilarious because I doubt that you are thoughtful enough to realize that.

[FayC]

Need to clarify here:  While the overall BSA organization takes a stance on not including gays, not every district or council agrees with it, and they have the option to not support it.  FEw in my state support it, and all you have to do is go their websites to see that. Don't assume that all troops and packs are not inclusive.  Ours has been since the BSA first specified the guidelines on gay leaders and members.

Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts can be a great experience but just like anything, it is not for everyone.  As someone who went through the ranks of youth sports I prefer scouts to that culture.  Much more accepting of different values and opinions in my experience.  Also, a lot less yelling and fundraising.

[FayC]

"You're actually representing the bigotry in Boy Scouts, which is hilarious because I doubt that you are thoughtful enough to realize that."

No hilarity there.  There is nothing funny about assuming that that one person's opinion represents an entire organization.  In fact one could even say that is bigotry.

[whatsnextmom]

Originally Posted by FayC 

Need to clarify here:  While the overall BSA organization takes a stance on not including gays, not every district or council agrees with it, and they have the option to not support it.  FEw in my state support it, and all you have to do is go their websites to see that. Don't assume that all troops and packs are not inclusive.  Ours has been since the BSA first specified the guidelines on gay leaders and members.

Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts can be a great experience but just like anything, it is not for everyone.  As someone who went through the ranks of youth sports I prefer scouts to that culture.  Much more accepting of different values and opinions in my experience.  Also, a lot less yelling and fundraising.

Yes, there can be local troops that will be inclusive but issues arise when a child moves, needs to change troops or wants to make Eagle. At the Eagle level, they have to interview with people outside their childhood troop and deal with the "organization." They are asked about religion and sexual orientation. To earn that level they are in the position of lying or getting stripped of their merits. Some are willing to take the risk or count on their boy not being in the organization that long. Not a risk I'd take considering I have a daughter working on her Girl Scout Gold award now.

Personally, boy scouts can do whatever they want as a private organization. I'm not interested in dismantling their program due to the ignorance of current leadership. The next generation will get in there and I suspect they'll make changes. My issue is that locally, their council and campgrounds are on lands subsidized by the local government. Unlike the other youth organizations that are given this gift, boy scouts discriminate against a good chunk of the local population whose taxes are supporting them. The local government has asked that they move to privately funded locations (which is totally reasonable) but boy scouts is instead tying up the courts in litigation for years to stay. This is happening in many counties across the country. 

[AmandaT]

Originally Posted by FayC 

Need to clarify here:  While the overall BSA organization takes a stance on not including gays, not every district or council agrees with it, and they have the option to not support it.  FEw in my state support it, and all you have to do is go their websites to see that. Don't assume that all troops and packs are not inclusive.  Ours has been since the BSA first specified the guidelines on gay leaders and members.

Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts can be a great experience but just like anything, it is not for everyone.  As someone who went through the ranks of youth sports I prefer scouts to that culture.  Much more accepting of different values and opinions in my experience.  Also, a lot less yelling and fundraising.

Sadly it doesn't really matter if individual troops support/enforce the bigotry or not. Belonging to a troop/ any money given still supports the overarching organization which is hate-filled. You can't support an organization like Boy Scouts on the local level without impacting (small as that impact may be) the national level. 

There are plenty of alternatives to BSA that are similar activities so one does not have to only rely on youth sports. 

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

Originally Posted by beanma 

I have no problem with flyers sent home for the Boy Scouts in the Friday Folder that every child brings home from our local elementaries. We also get flyers for other kids organizations like the Y, town rec dept, Karate schools, etc. I just throw 'em all the in the recycling. I do have a problem with what the OP described as a letter recruiting boys on district letterhead. That's over the line to me. Certainly the other poster's description boys being pulled out of class to be recruited sounds over the line, too.

Exactly -- I welcome information on all sorts of organizations sent home through the school folder -- as long as its clear that it is a private organization and the school is merely acting as a convenient communication go-between.  However, NO private organization should be endorsed (or appear to be endorsed) by the school.  And especially a private organization that is committed to a discriminatory membership practices.  So no private organization should communicated on official school/district letterhead, no class time should be allotted to a meeting or recruitment, no listing in school newsletter etc.  And private organizations meeting on school grounds should all have the same requirements for paying for using the property etc.