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follow up on bullying from MTF (kinda funny, but boggling, too, IMO!)

post #1 of 14
Thread Starter 
Hey guys! Here's a follow up to the other thread I started. MTF is military treatment facility. Sorry it's long, but my jaw just about hit the floor!


http://www.mothering.com/discussions...028&highlight=

So basically, I felt harassed (particularly by the receptionist) at the military immunization clinic we are assigned to. We had been asked to produce the vaccination schedule we were following.

So, last week, we went in for our immunizations, and the receptionist asked for our schedule. I asked a question or two, and then just moved the conversation along without confirming or denying our compliance. (Trust me, she can be combative.)

So... when we got back to the immunization nurse, I broached the subject with her.

me: Why do you guys want the schedule?

RN: basically, it's to help us help you keep on track. Do you have a vaccination plan?

me: sure, but it's an evolving thing based on continuing research, so I'd hate for there to be any confusion if we feel the need to alter our plans.

RN: of course! We're not going to *hold* you to this, it's just something we have so we know where we are!

(at this point I'm thinking... 1. it's a walk in clinic, 2. you're not special ordering anything you don't have on hand- you refused to, and 3. I have to bring his record each time anyway, sooo.... not seeing the point here!)

She continued: for instance, we have families on all kinds of schedules! One comes in monthly, one comes in biweekly... [gets a grumpy face] in fact, that family was supposed to be here LAST week. Hmmmm... :

(I'm thinking, nooooo, of course you aren't holding me to anything!)

Me: Yeah, I don't think we'll be doing that unless we have totally settled on a schedule.

RN: are there any vaccines you will be omitting?

Me: Absolutely! Varicella for one.

RN: Oh no! [gets all concerned] You know, the titer levels aren't there anymore! And did you know that since you had chicken pox, you can get shingles, but if your kids got the vaccine, they'd be immune?

Me: [trying not to let my eyes bug out] Um. That's not what I understood. You know, I've been reading alot, but perhaps my sources *are* biased... Can you recommend any *pro-vaccine* literature that is NOT published by Merck, GSK, or Sinofi Pasteur? (I specified because I tripped over the GSK rep in the waiting area)

Oh, and here's the quote.... wait for it.... breathe.... ya ready?!




RN: Oh! No. Yeah... I really haven't done alot of research on vaccines.

my eyes start bugging out of my head. but I manage to say, kinda squeakily, "really?!" (what I'm thinking is, "So you're just a robot injecting my child with things you don't take the time to understand, and expect me to listen to ANY of your advice?!")

RN continues: Yeah, I have two kids (DITTO!), plus I'm studying A&P (anatomy and physiology) and it's really tough.

I leaned in and smiled engagingly: It was tough, but so interesting, too. Do you need my notes? I still have them. :
post #2 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuburnBeth View Post
Hey guys! Here's a follow up to the other thread I started. MTF is military treatment facility. Sorry it's long, but my jaw just about hit the floor!


http://www.mothering.com/discussions...028&highlight=

So basically, I felt harassed (particularly by the receptionist) at the military immunization clinic we are assigned to. We had been asked to produce the vaccination schedule we were following.

So, last week, we went in for our immunizations, and the receptionist asked for our schedule. I asked a question or two, and then just moved the conversation along without confirming or denying our compliance. (Trust me, she can be combative.)

So... when we got back to the immunization nurse, I broached the subject with her.

me: Why do you guys want the schedule?

RN: basically, it's to help us help you keep on track. Do you have a vaccination plan?

me: sure, but it's an evolving thing based on continuing research, so I'd hate for there to be any confusion if we feel the need to alter our plans.

RN: of course! We're not going to *hold* you to this, it's just something we have so we know where we are!

(at this point I'm thinking... 1. it's a walk in clinic, 2. you're not special ordering anything you don't have on hand- you refused to, and 3. I have to bring his record each time anyway, sooo.... not seeing the point here!)

She continued: for instance, we have families on all kinds of schedules! One comes in monthly, one comes in biweekly... [gets a grumpy face] in fact, that family was supposed to be here LAST week. Hmmmm... :

(I'm thinking, nooooo, of course you aren't holding me to anything!)

Me: Yeah, I don't think we'll be doing that unless we have totally settled on a schedule.

RN: are there any vaccines you will be omitting?

Me: Absolutely! Varicella for one.

RN: Oh no! [gets all concerned] You know, the titer levels aren't there anymore! And did you know that since you had chicken pox, you can get shingles, but if your kids got the vaccine, they'd be immune?

Me: [trying not to let my eyes bug out] Um. That's not what I understood. You know, I've been reading alot, but perhaps my sources *are* biased... Can you recommend any *pro-vaccine* literature that is NOT published by Merck, GSK, or Sinofi Pasteur? (I specified because I tripped over the GSK rep in the waiting area)

Oh, and here's the quote.... wait for it.... breathe.... ya ready?!




RN: Oh! No. Yeah... I really haven't done alot of research on vaccines.

my eyes start bugging out of my head. but I manage to say, kinda squeakily, "really?!" (what I'm thinking is, "So you're just a robot injecting my child with things you don't take the time to understand, and expect me to listen to ANY of your advice?!")

RN continues: Yeah, I have two kids (DITTO!), plus I'm studying A&P (anatomy and physiology) and it's really tough.

I leaned in and smiled engagingly: It was tough, but so interesting, too. Do you need my notes? I still have them. :
post #3 of 14
It's funny but it's actually really scary, isn't it?

I had a vax talk with a ped and the RN last month. I went in with 36 pages of research i'd done (wanted something tangible to show!), and the DOCTOR said, at least twice, 'Well, I'm not an expert in vaccinations, so I can't really discuss this very well.'

I had the same reaction as you.... Vaccinating is such a HUGE part of the well baby checkups, right? The doctor checks the weight, height, chit chats about this and that, and wants to take out the syringe.
And the qualified MD feels she can't have a proper conversation because she doesn't KNOW about the issue???

I think it's frightening.
post #4 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectrolite View Post
It's funny but it's actually really scary, isn't it?

I had a vax talk with a ped and the RN last month. I went in with 36 pages of research i'd done (wanted something tangible to show!), and the DOCTOR said, at least twice, 'Well, I'm not an expert in vaccinations, so I can't really discuss this very well.'

I had the same reaction as you.... Vaccinating is such a HUGE part of the well baby checkups, right? The doctor checks the weight, height, chit chats about this and that, and wants to take out the syringe.
And the qualified MD feels she can't have a proper conversation because she doesn't KNOW about the issue???

I think it's frightening.
We need a dead-eyed sheep smilie...possibly in a labcoat
post #5 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFWife View Post
We need a dead-eyed sheep smilie...possibly in a labcoat
:
post #6 of 14
Thread Starter 
maybe this needs to be a black sheep? Because I feel like the odd one in the flock! (except on here!)

I hear you, it's kinda funny, kinda scary. I really was trying to stick with the "respectful involved parent" attitude, which is why I asked her to recommend pro-vax literature. I *never* expected her to say that she would so readily own up to little to no research on the topic. I mean, this is what she does all day. She is *the* shot administrator for the immunization dept. It was truly surreal.

Sigh. My other take-away message is: you (the medical community) can't tell me that it is my responsibility to be my own health advocate, and then berate me when my research doesn't support your choices. I got a speech from the pediatrician at the well-baby portion, prior to the immunization clinic.

The other fun blessing from that day was from a fellow parent at a play group. She looked at me and said "You're the one! You're the reason I don't have to sign that stupid waiver at the clinic anymore! Thank you!" Hee hee! (Another reason the receptionist doesn't like me, because she was rude and unprofessional when I asked a few questions, caught her in a lie, got the patient advocate involved, and wrote a nice long letter to the hospital commander.) Anyway, they now don't require you to sign waivers! Yippee!
post #7 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuburnBeth View Post

The other fun blessing from that day was from a fellow parent at a play group. She looked at me and said "You're the one! You're the reason I don't have to sign that stupid waiver at the clinic anymore! Thank you!" Hee hee! (Another reason the receptionist doesn't like me, because she was rude and unprofessional when I asked a few questions, caught her in a lie, got the patient advocate involved, and wrote a nice long letter to the hospital commander.) Anyway, they now don't require you to sign waivers! Yippee!
post #8 of 14
auburn, spectrolite, those are horrifying conversations. And yet they make me laugh. My family has more-or-less given up trying to convince me to vax (they've done zero research on vaxes, so I just quote statistics and facts at them, and go get my books and printouts and they shut up with the same 'i haven't done much research, so i can't really argue with you...'). It is just mind boggling that the professionals just follow the CDC/AAP/Pharma party line and never think to actually research this, even when they have dozens of patients coming in and questioning them...
post #9 of 14
It sounds to me as though the nurse and the doctor both tried, at some point, to argue with some parents and got trounced. The business of admitting they don't know much is a way of avoiding the discussion and being trounced again.

The strategy:

be pushy, it usually works.

if pushy doesn't work, try threats.

if threats don't work...give up...especially if the parent starts bombarding you with facts!
post #10 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuburnBeth View Post

RN continues: Yeah, I have two kids (DITTO!), plus I'm studying A&P (anatomy and physiology) and it's really tough.

I leaned in and smiled engagingly: It was tough, but so interesting, too. Do you need my notes? I still have them. :
AWESOME! Kill 'em with kindness, right?

I had to take A&P when my first was about 9 months old, and in retrospect I definitely should have invested more time researching vaccines as I put in to that class...

Quote:
Originally Posted by AuburnBeth View Post

The other fun blessing from that day was from a fellow parent at a play group. She looked at me and said "You're the one! You're the reason I don't have to sign that stupid waiver at the clinic anymore! Thank you!" Hee hee! (Another reason the receptionist doesn't like me, because she was rude and unprofessional when I asked a few questions, caught her in a lie, got the patient advocate involved, and wrote a nice long letter to the hospital commander.) Anyway, they now don't require you to sign waivers! Yippee!
tee hee... the story just gets better and better

Quote:
Originally Posted by AFWife View Post
We need a dead-eyed sheep smilie...possibly in a labcoat
Oh pretty please computer geniuses, someone make this happen!
post #11 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by AFWife View Post
We need a dead-eyed sheep smilie...possibly in a labcoat
Ok I spent way too much time looking for this and not a smilie but...

*Personal disclaimer* I realize not all medical professionals are sheep, and not all sheep are medical professionals.

http://comps.fotosearch.com/comp/UNN...~u26915602.jpg
post #12 of 14
Thread Starter 
true: but I get the idea they'd like me better if I were a sheep.
post #13 of 14
Thread Starter 
Oh, and thanks for all the supportive comments.
post #14 of 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectrolite View Post
It's funny but it's actually really scary, isn't it?

I had a vax talk with a ped and the RN last month. I went in with 36 pages of research i'd done (wanted something tangible to show!), and the DOCTOR said, at least twice, 'Well, I'm not an expert in vaccinations, so I can't really discuss this very well.'

I had the same reaction as you.... Vaccinating is such a HUGE part of the well baby checkups, right? The doctor checks the weight, height, chit chats about this and that, and wants to take out the syringe.
And the qualified MD feels she can't have a proper conversation because she doesn't KNOW about the issue???

I think it's frightening.
Frightening, and infuriating!!!

How dare someone try to inject our children with a cocktail of chemicals and other nasty ingredients when they haven't researched the issue. "I'm not an expert in vaccinations..." So why are you giving them, then?

Gaaaahhhhhhhh.

They should be required to be experts in order to administer them.
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