bill HR3139

[CerridwenLorelei]

have any of you heard about this? I just got some information in my inbox today

It is not good

It is to keep kids from under 18 working AND EVEN HOMESCHOOLERS will have to get this GET PERMISSION FROM THEIR LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICT To be employed and they will have to be employed during the hours regular school kids are instead of other times

[luv my 2 sweeties]

WHAT?? Do you have any more info, such as a link to the text of the bill, or a website that is tracking it's progress? It sounds terrible. I can't imagine employers think much of it either. If I were a fast-food manager, homeschooled teens would be a dream come true! Maybe this is one instance in which we can root for the fast-food jaugernaut to carry the day! :LOL (Politics *does* make strange bedfellows!)

[CerridwenLorelei]

I do but not

sure how to do it and stay in the user guidelines since there is a discussion at another board...

[Unreal]

http://www.house.gov/lantos/hr3139.pdf

What goobers.....

‘‘SEC. 204. WORKING-HOUR RESTRICTIONS FOR MINORS.
20 ‘‘(a) SCHOOL-AGE MINORS.—An employer may not
21 permit a school-age minor to work during school hours.
22 ‘‘(b) MINORS 16 OR 17 YEARS OF AGE.—An em-
23 ployer may not permit a minor who is 16 or 17 years of
24 age—
25
1‘‘(2) to work later than 10 p.m. on a day before
2 a school day or later than 11 p.m. on any other day;
3 ‘‘(3) to work more than 4 hours on a school day
4 or more than 8 hours on any other day;
5 ‘‘(4) to work more than 20 hours during a week
6 in which school is in session or more than 40 hours
7 during any other week; or
8 ‘‘(5) to work on more than 6 consecutive days.

Followed by similar guidelines for 14 and 15 year olds...
then:

24 ‘‘(d) DEFINITIONS.—As used in this section, the
1 terms ‘school hours’, ‘school day’, and ‘in session’, respec-
2 tively, have the meanings given those terms under the law
3 applicable to the school district in which the minor in-
4 volved lives.

and more...
These are under Misc. Provisions...

SEC. 203. RULE TO PROHIBIT EMPLOYMENT OF MINORS IN
1 CERTAIN ACTIVITIES.
2 (a) IN GENERAL.—Not later than 24 months after
3 the date of the enactment of this section, the Secretary
4 of Labor shall promulgate a rule, under section 553 of
5 title 5, United States Code, to prohibit employment of mi-
6 nors in the following activities:
7 (1) Seafood processing.
8 (2) Employment requiring a minor to handle or
9 dispose of oil or other liquids from fryers.
10 (b) DEFINITION.—As used in this section, the term
11 ‘‘minor’’ means an individual who is under the age of 18
12 years.

*sigh*
I'm still formulating a response to this...hopefully I can post later

[applejuice]

I live in LA and I can watch and see how this affects child actors and actresses since they are the law will affect them.

I have some friends who are artistic managers and I will ask them.

Thank you for this information.

The law's enforcement is really the problem.

I see ten (+/-) year olds around here on school days mowing lawns with the professional gardening services; I fear for their safety on such jobs.

[Dar]

Um, California already requires this. It's called a work permit, and anyone who hasn't graduated from high school has to apply to their home school district for one. The hassle varies by district, but taking and passing the CHSPE (which is commonly done at 12 or 13) means youre a high school graduate and don't have to wory about it.

I wonder how they define "school hours", though. Even regular schools have varying hours, and a lot of continuation schools have night classes. If your homeschool (or private school, if you R-4 in California) is in session from midnight to 6 am, then those are your school hours, right?


dar

[applejuice]

Dar:

I agree with you that CA already has this codified, but it is not enforced at all.

My general manager at Motel 6 where I worked for seven years was hired when she was twelve. This was not discovered for another fifteen years, when by her own hand, she hired someone with a fake SSN; it triggered an internal audit which uncovered her real age. Frankly, I do not believe that the manager who hired her really did not have a clue at some point as to her real age.

Also the CHSPE requires the test taker to be sixteen, although my own children took and passed it before that age when I signed for them.

That private school voucher helped me alot.

[Dar]

I think enforcement will vary by employer, a lot... I know that when I worked for a charter school here I had many students whose employers were requiring work permits. They were working at places like the Chabot Space and science Center, though, not Motel 6.

To take the CHSPE, you must either be 16 or a high school sophomore. If you R-4, you decide what grade your child is in, so a 12 yr old can be a sophomore easily...

Dar

[Unreal]

I guess my concern is in the states where homeschoolers are not regulated (NJ, for example, from my understanding at least).
Here in NY, we are already in contact with the school district several times a year. I would hate to think that the district could be creeps about issuing the working papers, but at least we could show them the state HS regs if they tried to pretend they didn't know who we were.
But, might something like this not encourage 'free' states (for lack of a better term...and I'm feeling over having to write ds's quarterly report...) to start regulating homeschool families?

Why is it up to the school district? Why not the DMV, where you go to get your photo ID, Driving Permit, Driver's license, passport (at least in NY), etc

It just seems to be to be yet another interaction that I don't want to have with the district.

[luv my 2 sweeties]

I haven't read the whole thing, but I saw a major problem in sec. 203 regarding work permits for minors. Check out subsection (3) below. Michigan is a very "free" state -- we are not required to do anything to declare or prove that we are providing our children with an education. Of course state law mandates that we *do* provide education, but it doesn't require homeschoolers to jump through any hoops. So now we have to go to our school district and have some administrator "inform" us of school attendance requirements??? It just doesn't make sense. This could bring many Michigan hs families to the attention of school districts for the first time. Intentional? Or just ignorance of HS issues by the drafters of the bill?


•HR 3139 IH
‘‘SEC. 203. WORK PERMIT.
‘‘(a) MODEL FORM AND APPLICATION.—The Sec-
retary shall prescribe a unified model form that contains
both the work permit required by section 201 and the ap-
plication for the permit.
‘‘(b) CONTENTS.—The model form shall provide for
the following information:
‘‘(1) Name, date of birth, gender, racial or eth-
nic background, and contact information of the
minor.
‘‘(2) Name, contact information, and consent of
a parent of the minor.
‘‘(3) In the case of a school-age minor, a certifi-
cation by a school official that the official has in-
formed the minor of school attendance requirements
and has given the minor a written summary of those
requirements.
‘‘(4) Name, contact information, and type of
business of the employer.
‘‘(5) Type of work.
‘‘(6) Summary of age limitations and other
legal requirements for employment of minors.
‘‘(7) Name and contact information of the des-
ignated State agency.

[Dar]

How is paid work by teens handled now in Michigan? I would think someone had to be overseeing - there are federal laws about minimum age requirements and maximum hours worked and the kinds of jobs people can do at different ages.

Okay, I googled. It looks like most (41, according to one website) states already require work permits, others leave enforcement to the employer. So the state is getting the same info, if everyone is following the law. I don't think the district is legally permitted to deny a work permit if the student is making "Satisfactory academic progress" according to his school records (and if you use the free 'n' easy private school option, that's you), although they can be cranky about it.

It also looks like a lot of states' employment laws for underage workers are already similar to the proposed legislation:
http://www.dol.gov/esa/programs/whd/state/nonfarm.htm

And there are also federal laws, as well. This bill seems to take the standards formerly applied to 14 and 15 yr olds and extend them to 16 and 17 yr olds who haven't graduated high school. I'm not sure that's a bad thing, really - being a high school student and working more than 20 hours when school is in session sounds like a lot - and most state laws already include similar restrictions.

Applejuice - the entertainment industry has a whole different set of laws, FWIW. That's the only job Rain can get legally now, at ten, except ag work on the "family farm".

Dar

[luv my 2 sweeties]

How is paid work by teens handled now in Michigan?

Good question. I looked it up too. (I knew from my own experience that work permits were required, but not what that entailed.) It looks like the employer contacts an "administrator" at the school "the child is attending" and has them fill out a form. I guess that would be Mom or Dad for a homeschooler, right? This bill specifies that a "school official" inform the teen about the school attendence requirements (presumably the legal code?) and give a written summary of them. I *suppose* a homeschooling parent could be construed to be a "school offical", but it's not clear, since it doesn't mention that it be an official from the school the child attends. It's a little too murky for my taste!

As for the hours worked, I don't have a problem with limiting the total number of hours, as most states (including MI) already do. It's the restriction on *which* daytime hours that bothers me. What about hs kids whose working parent is teaching a subject in the evenings? This law may make any employment difficult for them. Mostly, I think it's just silly from a homeschooling perspective. One of the benefits of hs is freedom from the school schedule! I'm not against the law, per se. Child labor explotition is an issue close to my heart. I would just like to see space carved out for those who may not be following the local school schedule. I'm drafting my letter to the appropriate Reps now!

edited to add: Many parents around here do the "school at home" thing, so the prospect of Dad (usually) teaching math or music or whatever in the evenings is not far fetched.

[Dar]

I didn't see anywhere that "school hours" were specified. I don't think they could, anyway, because each public school has different hours anyway. Seems to me that "school hours" would be whenever you decided...

Dar

[luv my 2 sweeties]

I didn't see anywhere that "school hours" were specified.

Sec. 104 (a): "School age minors: an employer may not permit a school age minor to work during school hours."

Subsections (b) and (c) then go on to lay out the differences between how many hours can be worked by 16 and 17 year olds (b) and 14 and 15 year olds (c).

I don't think they could, anyway, because each public school has different hours anyway. Seems to me that "school hours" would be whenever you decided...

Section 104 (d): "Definitions: As used in this section, the terms 'school hours', 'school day', and 'in session', respectively, have the meanings given those terms under the law applicable to the school district in which the minor invloved lives."

It sure sounds like the public school district you live in determines the meanings of these phrases. But it is good to hash this out, Dar, because as I copy the above text, I wonder if the phrase "under the law applicable" would give a lawyer some room to wiggle. If HS is legal in your district (which it is, everywhere) then perhaps this would allow you to determine what "school hours" means. But again, it's very murky. On the face of it, it sure sounds like "school hours" means the hours that your school district sets. (Only public schools have districts, right?) I wouldn't count on employers to be willing to take a chance that it could be interpreted otherwise. I think I'd rather have the language in the law be made more clear.

[Dar]

Yeah... we'd have to know what "the law applicable to the school district" is. I was reading it to mean however the state (or perhaps city or county, but I think generally state) law defined the terms, and I don't think California even does. I searched the state ed codes and didn't find any definitions, anyway...

In California, many homeschoolers are legally private schools, and any law that impacts them will likewise impact the private schools, so we have a lot more "number-power". Private school students do also have to get work permits from the school district, FWIW.

And yes, I think it would be better and easy if they didn't pass the new law, anyway... I just don't think it will be a disaster if they do.

Dar