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what are the reasons some people have midwives? - Page 2

post #21 of 59
Thread Starter 
I guess Im surprised that so many people have the impression my MW is horrible. Granted I complain about her but she is incredibly experienced and really popular with other moms as far as I can tell. She'll talk about how ugly this persons baby was, or how this person is gaining too much weight, or this person is living too unhealthy of a lifestyle and she is considering "dropping" them, but generally I think she is as good a midwife as any, as far as I can tell??
Just highlighting the bad things or slip ups I guess makes her sound terrible. But if we were to highlight any of OUR bad things or slip ups, we would all sound like terrible people too, KWIM?
I dont think my issue is so much a bad midwife, as it is that I just want some privacy, no matter how experienced or supportive of a person I may find, they are still someone who I feel shouldnt be a part of such a private intimate event. To illustrate how I feel, to me its like asking someone to come watch me have sex with my husband, just to make sure nothing bad happens. and everyone around me considers this normal and the smart thing to do, except me. And even if that would sound crazy, isnt it true that having sex while in labor, or at least doing sexual things, helps the labor along? and that woman can even have orgasmic experiences giving birth? So having sex and giving birth really dont seem that far off from eachother as far Im concerned. I wouldnt want to do either one in public.

Sorry, but I can only PRETEND to be comfortable with people that arent my husband around for my labor. I dont honestly understand why every other person that has a midwife or any one else present for their birth for that matter, can be okay with them being around for such an intimate event? Am I the only one that realizes how personal it is? I dont mean to be offensive or vulgar, but
the baby is coming out of my crotch. come on.
But, maybe things will be different once Im in labor. After all, people give me the impression that all decency and modesty fly out the window. (which really doesnt make me look forward to it very much..)
But anyway, sorry for my little rant. I really dont mean to sound angry or argue at all or anything.

Anyway, to answer your question MittensKittens, umm.. that is a thought. Although I kind of feel bullied into just dealing with having the midwife around, and part of me thinks its the smart thing to do, I think Im just going to wait until it happens, and see just how scared the contractions make me, just how intense things are going to be, or just how I feel in general, just listen to my intuition, regarding whether or not I go to the midwifes house. I dont think I would be comfortable at a friends or a hotel, so if that were the case, I would just default to my midwifes house anyway. Because any place other than my house, is all the same to me.

I really am torn. Part of me argues that I would better off staying home because thats where Im comfortable and I trust my body and we couldnt possibly get in "trouble" for having the baby at home. and part of me says that I will be better off with the midwife because I dont know, "something could go wrong", or I would feel too guilty and uncomfortable staying home against the commanders orders, whether they were legal orders or illegal. That and everyone on the thread in the homebirthing section all seemed to have good logical reasons for having midwives.

I think its just too hard for me right now to go against everyone I know and have the baby at home. Im still not convinced Im going to want to have my midwife around, but Im convinced enough that I wouldnt feel supported doing anything BUT having her around, so I might as well and hope for the best. *shrugs* Anyway, thanks everyone for the great responses as usual, you guys are awesome. I was just kind of ranting, you dont need to respond.
post #22 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariekitt24 View Post
She'll talk about how ugly this persons baby was, or how this person is gaining too much weight, or this person is living too unhealthy of a lifestyle and she is considering "dropping" them, but generally I think she is as good a midwife as any, as far as I can tell??
Ok, this is all a problem to me! I don't think she should be talking about any clients with anyone, especially other clients. That is not ok to me, at all. And the part I bolded is why I don't have a midwife. I know not all midwives are like this and I know there are great midwives out there, but in general it seems most are like this and/or don't truly trust birth (in my experience). No offense to the wonderful midwives here!

As far as what you'll do...just keep following your intuition. At this point, I'd take a deep breath, lie low and just do what feels right when you are in labor.
post #23 of 59
I wanted a midwife because I wanted to be able to let go of worries/fears/concerns and just birth my baby. I didn't want to have to think about what I'd do in X situation, or how I'd handle something else.

I wanted to be able to clean my mind and do my thing. Having a midwife with her equipment and knowledge meant that I could let go of all that.

I also know personally some people who did have something go wrong at their homebirth - but it wasn't a big deal because there was someone with a clear head there who knew what to do.

It was also a protection before transferring to a hospital. I didn't want to end up at a hospital. So I wanted someone who had knowledge and experience who could do some of the stuff they do at hospitals at home.
post #24 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by AliveMama View Post
It was also a protection before transferring to a hospital. I didn't want to end up at a hospital. So I wanted someone who had knowledge and experience who could do some of the stuff they do at hospitals at home.
for me, i feel i partly ended up at the hospital because of my midwife for my last 2 births!

i do see your point though. if that is the way you could let go of your fears, etc, then that is great!
post #25 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariekitt24 View Post
Also, my husband doesn't support me having the baby without the midwife, because we paid for her and he claims we wouldn't know what to do without her. I told him we knew how to MAKE the baby, Im pretty sure I instinctively know how to birth it.
You need to have someone with you who knows what to do if you start to bleed uncontrollably after the birth. What will your husband do if you pass out and the baby's not breathing? You need to have his support to do this, and if you don't have his and he hasn't done his research too, then I'm sorry, but you're going to need the midwife there.
post #26 of 59
If you feel comfortable lying, and it is practically possible, how about having the baby at home and then saying you had her/him at a friend's place? (This would obviously not be able to be the midwife's place ). Not suggesting you be dishonest, just brainstorming
post #27 of 59
[QUOTE= I know not all midwives are like this and I know there are great midwives out there, but in general it seems most are like this and/or don't truly trust birth (in my experience). No offense to the wonderful midwives here![/QUOTE]

I had no idea that mw were anything but wonderful (I'm often naive like that)-- until my recent appt. with a mw. both the mw and the MD on staff at the birth center were basically ganging up on me after I said that I don't get pelvic exams (PTSD) and I didn't want a blood test. My partner said they exchanged glances and the MW rolled her eyes when I said I didn't want the blood test. I guess I needed that appt. to reaffirm my decision to UC. Now I feel 100% sure that's what I want to/need to do. $7,000 is a lot of money to pay for that kind of treatment and it wasn't appearing that I'd get that much better of a birth experience out of our birth center than I would at a hospital. I'm actually shocked, as this particular MW is the director of the center.
post #28 of 59
This is an interesting discussion. I just got Heart and Hands by Elizabeth Davis and have been reading it. Part of a midwife's training is to moniter for conditions that demand hospital support. I think it must take a really confident/birth-trusting/woman-trusting midwife to see signs of a potential problem and still step out of the way if the woman indicates that she doesn't want to transfer. Not only because of the personal burden if something DOES end up going wrong, but because of the legal burden. Midwives are insured and/or liable. I can totally understand that making it really hard to truly trust birth all the way. Trust involves a leap of faith, no matter how much hard evidence there is.
Of course, that gives no excuse for treating patients who reject i.e. blood testing with contempt. Another part of midwifery is working with what you have, knowing how to detect problems unobtrusively, via external observation and communication with the mother, without necessarily having to resort to ultrasounds/bloodtesting/internal pelvic exams. Thus another huge part of midwifery is psychological/emotional sensitivity, the ability to humbly pay attention and accept and react sensitively to what is at hand. That makes talking sh!t about other clients behind their back a strong breach of trust and quite possibly a very bad sign for the midwife's sympathy/empathy/understanding skills.
It's true that having your partner present and educated about birth is a good thing in an emergency.
Reading about complications and their signs, however, I feel fairly confident that you could detect them yourself if you know what you are looking for, and transport by ambulance if needed. In fact, I have read homebirth stories where it sounds like the mother would have been able to detect a problem long before the midwife if she had just been aware of what symptoms mean what.
post #29 of 59
"She'll talk about how ugly this persons baby was, or how this person is gaining too much weight, or this person is living too unhealthy of a lifestyle and she is considering "dropping" them, but generally I think she is as good a midwife as any, as far as I can tell??"

I had two births with the same midwife, and never heard Word One about any of her other clients. That's totally not OK. There are much better midwives out there, and I can see why you don't want to give birth in a gossipy woman's home! Who would?!?

If you have Tricare, I think you might suggest to your dh that you stay home until late in labor and then go to the hospital. Then stay home really, really late. This is what I'm planning to do for my birth in May. I do agree that if you dh or a friend will not agree to educate themselves about stopping bleeding, dealing with dystocia, etc. then full-on UC is not the right choice. UC is a safe choice for people who are well educated in the mechanics of the birth process and the more common complications. The rest of us hire somebody to know that stuff
post #30 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smithie View Post
I do agree that if you dh or a friend will not agree to educate themselves about stopping bleeding, dealing with dystocia, etc. then full-on UC is not the right choice.
If she is educated enough about these things herself, and DH is not going to be an obstacle during the birthing process, what would be wrong with him just plain being there and nothing else?
post #31 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by MittensKittens View Post
If she is educated enough about these things herself, and DH is not going to be an obstacle during the birthing process, what would be wrong with him just plain being there and nothing else?
Probably there is nothing wrong with that. Most major complications are detectable before the mother passes out and can no longer guide her partner to help. Slow, dripping, persistent hemmorhage is much more dangerous than the rare sudden, gushing hemmorhage. If the mother knows what to look for she would be able to detect a slow hemmorhage and either take herbs/placenta herself or get her partner to call an ambulance.
I could imagine that in the case of shoulder dystocia it might be useful for the partner to at least know a little about it, but it seems that often with sd it's a positioning issue anyway and if the mother i.e. gets on her hands and knees that itself can dislodge the shoulders. In that situation it might be good if the partner knew not to i.e. grab the baby by the head and pull, but that would require a very minimal amount of self-education.
Obviously though not everybody wants to have to think about these things, which is where the (sensitive, professional, non-gossipy) midwife comes in.

ETA: OMG, I think I just had a revelation. The reason a slow, dripping hemmorhage is mentioned as more dangerous than an obvious, gushing hemmorhage in Heart and Hands is because it's not obvious to the midwife, and her client, having paid the midwife to take care of her, trusts the midwife, not herself to detect all problems for her so isn't tuning in to her own bleeding because she believes the midwife will take care of her, and so the midwife doesn't detect the slow hemmorhage until the blood loss has become a problem.
Of course the midwife has some difficulties balancing being nonintrusive and making sure something like a slow hemmorhage is not happening.
Not that the woman doesn't trust her body, etc. but that she has put her trust in the midwife to guide her through her birth, to detect problems, to take care of the hassles, so she is less tuned in to what is going on with herself. She wants to be able to concentrate on the happy, fuzzy aspect of the experience without having to think about/worry about what might go wrong.
But that's not how life is... you can't pay somebody else to monitor your subjective experience for you! Or I can't at least. This conversation just made me realize that. It doesn't necessarily mean that I won't have a midwife at my birth - after all, if something comes up it's great to have a pair of skilled hands around. But now I know that having a professional around is so not an excuse or reason to cop out of paying attention to what is happening, nor does it mean that I have to pay less attention to my internal cues. Wow!
Anyway, sorry to kind of go off on a tangent. Just had to share...
post #32 of 59
"... you can't pay somebody else to monitor your subjective experience for you! Or I can't at least. This conversation just made me realize that. It doesn't necessarily mean that I won't have a midwife at my birth - after all, if something comes up it's great to have a pair of skilled hands around. But now I know that having a professional around is so not an excuse or reason to cop out of paying attention to what is happening, nor does it mean that I have to pay less attention to my internal cues. Wow!"

Continuing tangent... I had this same revelation when I decided, for a whole variety of reasons, to go to the hospital this time. I trusted my midwife completely, and while I trust the OB practice not to actually let me die from a preventable cause, they certainly can't be relied on for guidance on how to correct malpositioning, etc. DH and I will need to be way more on the ball for this birth than we were for the first two, when we just kind of went with the flow while highly efficient women unobtrusively managed us...
post #33 of 59
ultimately, you have to do what is right for you. that is what creates the safest birth.

it takes a lot of thinking to figure out what you want, what is right for you, and then planning to make it work.

as a UCer, i would have a midwife if i felt it was medically or emotionally necessary.
post #34 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursusarctos View Post
Probably there is nothing wrong with that. Most major complications are detectable before the mother passes out and can no longer guide her partner to help. Slow, dripping, persistent hemmorhage is much more dangerous than the rare sudden, gushing hemmorhage. If the mother knows what to look for she would be able to detect a slow hemmorhage and either take herbs/placenta herself or get her partner to call an ambulance.
I had a totally solo UC three months back. Granted

1. Nothing at all went wrong, quite the contrary!
2. If something had happened, going to the L&D hospital here would not have been a good option AT ALL. The hospitals here are so dangerous that I personally know two women who's babies died due to medical intervention. I would have more faith in ANYTHING I could do myself than in the level of care equivalent to 1950s US they provide here. I would have known something was off, would have attempted to treat it myself and if that failed.... ...no reliable back up. I guess that is a bit different to most of you.
post #35 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by MittensKittens View Post
I had a totally solo UC three months back. Granted

1. Nothing at all went wrong, quite the contrary!
2. If something had happened, going to the L&D hospital here would not have been a good option AT ALL. The hospitals here are so dangerous that I personally know two women who's babies died due to medical intervention. I would have more faith in ANYTHING I could do myself than in the level of care equivalent to 1950s US they provide here. I would have known something was off, would have attempted to treat it myself and if that failed.... ...no reliable back up. I guess that is a bit different to most of you.
Great that nothing went wrong! As we all know, that is the case the great majority of the time if birth is left unhindered. In this kind of discussion it tends to get forgotten, too, since the decision to have a midwife or not has a lot to do with how comfortable people are with the chances of complications.
Are you in Eastern Europe somewhere? Yeah, I agree, in that situation I would definitely stay away from the hospital too unless I was unconscious and taken there by somebody else. When the hospitals are dysfunctional and definitely harmful then imo it's safer just to go it alone. It's terrible how the "developed" countries exported their medical model of birth to poorer countries in the 50s and then never updated it at all. No wonder that richer women in less developed countries often choose to schedule a c-section instead of going through with the horrific vaginal birth options available.
However, because I am in Finland, where they are relatively humane and very up to date medically, I would have less qualms about calling an ambulance if shepherd's purse or placentophagia weren't slowing down my bleeding sufficiently. That is, I would be confident of getting help, not just some incompetent/overly interfering/outdated overkill of a treatment.
post #36 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by ursusarctos View Post
Great that nothing went wrong! As we all know, that is the case the great majority of the time if birth is left unhindered. In this kind of discussion it tends to get forgotten, too, since the decision to have a midwife or not has a lot to do with how comfortable people are with the chances of complications.
Are you in Eastern Europe somewhere? Yeah, I agree, in that situation I would definitely stay away from the hospital too unless I was unconscious and taken there by somebody else. When the hospitals are dysfunctional and definitely harmful then imo it's safer just to go it alone. It's terrible how the "developed" countries exported their medical model of birth to poorer countries in the 50s and then never updated it at all. No wonder that richer women in less developed countries often choose to schedule a c-section instead of going through with the horrific vaginal birth options available.
However, because I am in Finland, where they are relatively humane and very up to date medically, I would have less qualms about calling an ambulance if shepherd's purse or placentophagia weren't slowing down my bleeding sufficiently. That is, I would be confident of getting help, not just some incompetent/overly interfering/outdated overkill of a treatment.
Yes, I am in Serbia. The one woman who's baby died was so much against homebirth before she got pregnant, and she was really horrid and judging with me. That was because I had a mw assisted homebirth, before the UC. Then, when her baby died, she said, if only I had been at home... (and she can't get pregnant again now ) I have no words to describe the inhumane treatment of patients here, not much shocks me, but this just makes me cry. In those situations, I think WHATEVER happens during UC might be safer. People still seem to think the hospital is safer though, and look at me if I am crazy when I mention my experiences. So much is to be done in the way of education and so on... I really think I took the easy, the coward's road with my UC. The guaranteed horror experience in an L&D hospital is much, much more "brave" than a UC... but since I don't feel like taking part in the "my birth was worth than yours" thing I hear so often here, and am so grateful for my wonderful, empowering birth, I don't care about being a coward . In the US, I would still UC, but the alternative would just be that much less horrid.

*gets off soapbox and says sorry for polluting topic*
post #37 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by MittensKittens View Post
Yes, I am in Serbia. The one woman who's baby died was so much against homebirth before she got pregnant, and she was really horrid and judging with me. That was because I had a mw assisted homebirth, before the UC. Then, when her baby died, she said, if only I had been at home... (and she can't get pregnant again now ) I have no words to describe the inhumane treatment of patients here, not much shocks me, but this just makes me cry. In those situations, I think WHATEVER happens during UC might be safer. People still seem to think the hospital is safer though, and look at me if I am crazy when I mention my experiences. So much is to be done in the way of education and so on... I really think I took the easy, the coward's road with my UC. The guaranteed horror experience in an L&D hospital is much, much more "brave" than a UC... but since I don't feel like taking part in the "my birth was worth than yours" thing I hear so often here, and am so grateful for my wonderful, empowering birth, I don't care about being a coward . In the US, I would still UC, but the alternative would just be that much less horrid.

*gets off soapbox and says sorry for polluting topic*
Wow, not YOU definitely have reason to UC! I dont' think you are a coward at all! You are still completely going against mainstream thinking there!
post #38 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by MittensKittens View Post
Yes, I am in Serbia. The one woman who's baby died was so much against homebirth before she got pregnant, and she was really horrid and judging with me. That was because I had a mw assisted homebirth, before the UC. Then, when her baby died, she said, if only I had been at home... (and she can't get pregnant again now ) I have no words to describe the inhumane treatment of patients here, not much shocks me, but this just makes me cry. In those situations, I think WHATEVER happens during UC might be safer. People still seem to think the hospital is safer though, and look at me if I am crazy when I mention my experiences. So much is to be done in the way of education and so on... I really think I took the easy, the coward's road with my UC. The guaranteed horror experience in an L&D hospital is much, much more "brave" than a UC... but since I don't feel like taking part in the "my birth was worth than yours" thing I hear so often here, and am so grateful for my wonderful, empowering birth, I don't care about being a coward . In the US, I would still UC, but the alternative would just be that much less horrid.

*gets off soapbox and says sorry for polluting topic*
Wow, that's terrible. I've read stuff like that before too. Interestingly, and imo not coincidentally, the birth rates in much of Eastern Europe are very low... obviously there are other factors at play, but the promise of certain horror and possible death in childbirth can't be helping motivate women to have kids.
And I don't think you're a coward either you just made the safest choice! That just sounds smart to me
post #39 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariekitt24 View Post
I guess Im surprised that so many people have the impression my MW is horrible. Granted I complain about her but she is incredibly experienced and really popular with other moms as far as I can tell. She'll talk about how ugly this persons baby was, or how this person is gaining too much weight, or this person is living too unhealthy of a lifestyle and she is considering "dropping" them, but generally I think she is as good a midwife as any, as far as I can tell??
If this is true, she is unfit to practice and should be struck off. That is completely totally and utterly unacceptable of any professional- client confidentiality is basic stuff.

ursarctos, good revelation Over here the decisions about whether to go to hospital, when to go to hospital, what kind of observations to permit during labour and what kind of treatments to permit during labour rest firmly with the mother- it's known as the maternity charter. Unfortunately the US has no such document, but I seem to remember Finland has comparable maternity rights to us.

OP, all of mine have been homebirthed, and my last was a whoops UC. The legal climate here is actively hostile to UC and midwifery care is free at point of delivery. My midwives have been excellent through and through- I've been left to labour alone at my request, my requests have all been honoured thoroughly, and on two occasions I've needed the help of a second pair of hands. DS2 was born with a mild dystocia followed with a mild haemorrhage, and DD had a nuchal hand which could have presented further problems for us. DS1 and DS3's births were entirely natural and caught by me, but I needed syntocinon after my first two births to help with bleeding.
I also owe my breastfeeding relationship with all four of my living children and possibly my second son's life to the second midwife present at my first birth, who came to my home late at night three days later to help him latch on because breastfeeding was going terribly, terribly wrong. If someone hadn't helped then, I would most likely have given up. I'm also a big believer in a newborn health screening, because there are things that intuition will not tell you.

UC is great, but midwives are great too. Now is NOT the time to decide on whether to whoops or not. Play it by ear.

FWIW, the UK used to offer what's called a DomINO birth (domiciliary In aNd Out) where the midwife attends you at home in early labour, transfers with you to hospital when labour is fully established and then takes you home again within a few hours of the birth. Something ike that could be an option for you. What are the birthing centres near you like? The hospital? There must be a better alternative than this woman.
post #40 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by flapjack View Post
If this is true, she is unfit to practice and should be struck off. That is completely totally and utterly unacceptable of any professional- client confidentiality is basic stuff.
This is how a lot of midwives I know are.
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