HIB vaccination and Gullain-Barre Syndrome

[Lollicup]

I now believe that GBS occurs days after getting the HIB shot, as well as some others. Let's talk about this. Is this condition rare as they say, or does it occur more than we think. It certainly scares me. I only found a few cases of GBS after the HIB vacs. Do you know any child who came down with GBS after the HIB vacs? Do you have websites to direct me for more info.?

http://www.medalerts.org/vaersdb/fin...00&SORTING=AGE

[KimberlyD0]

never hear of Gullain-Barre Syndrome, so therefor haven't heard of a link.

What is it?

[carriebft]

I am willing to bet that GBS is definitely caused by some vaccines, even though everything you read will not come out and give a certain answer. However, I think it is more prevalent with some vaccines than others and my research has left me to believe that those vaccines are:

flu
HPV
Hepatitis B
Menactra

A big part is that the people most at risk for GBS are teens and adults, so the vaccines they receive are going to be more connected with it (and you may get some false temporal associations as well)

I don't see Hib as a big risk for GBS, but I think that MMR, despite not having as many cases as the ones listed above, is probably the biggest threat to young children for GBS because it is live and may cause an infection. I also notice that OPV has been given to many on the list in the link you provided, another live vaccine. DTaP seems to have high GBS numbers as well and is highly reactive in general. I think these factors are more at fault than the Hib. Hib is pretty nonreactive alone.

[carriebft]

In fact, looking through, almost ALL the examples in the link you have are accompanied by a live vaccine (MMR or OPV). I think that is definitely telling, as GBS is commonly thought to be caused by infection and live vaccines can cause these.

[Lollicup]

In Dr. Sears Vaccination book, he especially highlights the HIB vaccination reactions as being HIB infection and GBS.

[carriebft]

The Hib infection line is actually connected to older versions and not the newer ones; Sears is supposedly fixing this error in the next edition. I disagree with him on the GBS thing, for reasons stated above.

(i also think he put the GBS thing in there in connection to the vaccine causing risk of hib itself-- hence, an infection-- but since the hib infection risk is actually no longer true, the GBS theory falls apart as well)

[Lollicup]

I hear you on that. The VAERS reports GBS in the older versions and manufactures of HIB.

How accurate do you think that reporting system is? Percentage wise, how many adverse reactions do you think get reported?

My DD just had her last dose of HIB. She is 16 months and I regret doing it. I started this one at 8 months and finished with this last dose of 3 (ActHIB by sanofi pasteur). I'm worrying myself sick over here.

[carriebft]

eta: I see that he also claims it has to do with the tetanus toxoid; you can remedy that by going for the other hib vaccine if you want which does not use TT. pedvaxhib I believe it is.

[carriebft]

Originally Posted by Lollicup

I hear you on that. The VAERS reports GBS in the older versions and manufactures of HIB.

How accurate do you think that reporting system is? Percentage wise, how many adverse reactions do you think get reported?

My DD just had her last dose of HIB. She is 16 months and I regret doing it. I started this one at 8 months and finished with this last dose of 3. I'm worrying myself sick over here.

I have no idea how accurate the system may be...you are going to have reactions not reported, reactions reported that are true, reactions reported that are false...it's impossible to tell really...I just kinda use it as a database of possibilities and go from there in looking stuff up.

I think your daughter will be fine-- maybe I am biased since my kids get it, too, but don't drive yourself mad looking for things like GBS for 4-5 days. Is there something you can do to distract yourself away from that? a book or craft or project? that can help me sometimes.

I don't think it is wrong or shameful or anything to be fearful of reactions, but I also wouldn't want you ruining the next week and driving yourself mad with fear

[carriebft]

And if it helps, GBS in infants so young is very very very rare-- even the examples in the link you gave are all older. (a few on the first page but, like I said, they are OPV ones as well)

ETA: also, those are all old brands too (?) I don't recognize the brands at all.

[Th1Th2]

Originally Posted by carriebft

The Hib infection line is actually connected to older versions and not the newer ones; Sears is supposedly fixing this error in the next edition. I disagree with him on the GBS thing, for reasons stated above.

(i also think he put the GBS thing in there in connection to the vaccine causing risk of hib itself-- hence, an infection-- but since the hib infection risk is actually no longer true, the GBS theory falls apart as well)

Have you checked the package inserts?

HibTITER®

Systemic Events
Anaphylactoid/anaphylactic reactions (including shock), angioneurotic edema, convulsions,53 erythema multiforme, facial edema, febrile seizures, Guillain-Barré syndrome,54 headache, hives (urticaria), hypersensitivity reaction, lethargy, and malaise. Also reported, hypotonia or hyporesponsive-hypotonic-episodes (in many instances pertussis-containing vaccine was coadministered).

ActHIB®

ADVERSE REACTIONS
Other adverse reactions reported with administration of other Haemophilus b conjugate vaccines include urticaria, seizures, hives, renal failure and Guillain-Barré Syndrome (GBS).18,34

Liquid PedvaxHIB®

Potential Adverse Reactions
The use of Haemophilus b Polysaccharide Vaccines and another Haemophilus b Conjugate Vaccine has been associated with the following additional adverse effects: early onset Hib disease and Guillain-Barré syndrome

In fact, the Hib vaccine causes Hib disease.

[carriebft]

I am not getting into this argument with you again, TH1TH2. It has been gone over again and again. Most inserts claim GBS, and I have explained my beliefs. Feel free to explain yours, but I will not be engaging you in further debate.

[carriebft]

Also, lollicup, If I remember correctly, you went with ACThib? if you did, the insert says that other hib conjugate vaccines have caused GBS but does not say that their vaccine has a history of this.

[Lollicup]

So far she has had zero symptoms and it's been 3 days. I pray she is not at all effected by this vaccination.

I do regret getting this vacs. I thought I did the research, then I find more stuff. When does the worrying end? I think you're damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[carriebft]

have you tried just sitting down with a piece of paper with two columns "benefits and risks" and just writing it all out in front of you? sometimes that has helped me.

a while ago I went on a trip to central america and the whole thing and lots $$ wasted and seeing family totally ruined by a double wammy rotavirus infection in both kids. It was horrible and the plane ride home was one of the worst experiences of my life.

I almost did the vaccine for the new babe because of that experience. But I stopped and stepped back and just wrote it all out and that helped me a lot (posting here too).

other times I have done the same thing and ended up on the other side doing the vaccine ..but it is a method that has really aided me at times. It helps make it all concrete and not just floating around in my head...if that makes sense.

[carriebft]

Also, kinda think about the idea that, if you are a person that worries if you do the vaccine and worries if you don't, then "worry" is gonna be in both columns...so it could be something that you try to move away from in your decision process. since it's gonna be there whether you do or don't, ya know? and maybe by not entertaining "worry" in your reasoning and research, you could actually find yourself worrying less because you are basing the choice on more concrete things.

--gotta head out now, i will stop dominating your thread I Hope you feel better though and are able to banish the worry

[Lollicup]

Don't get me wrong, but I have done tons of reading. It seems like it consumes my life sometimes. I've come to conclusion on some shots, others, not yet. I guess I could stop worrying, relax and just get the shots that everyone else is doing, but there's more to the story. I could stop worrying for now since she's only had 1 DTaP and 3 HIB. Next worry is MMR which I don't think I want to do at all.

[charleysmama23]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

never hear of Gullain-Barre Syndrome, so therefor haven't heard of a link.

What is it?

I don't think anyone answer this? GBS is an autoimmune syndrome that occurs commonly following a more simple and not life-threatening viral infection. It is seen as a an overreaction of the immune system as it is the immune system that actually attacks the peripheral nervous system. It's progressive paralysis that starts at the feet and works up, sometimes resulting in the victim needing to be put on machines to help them breathe. The paralysis then retreats in the opposite direction (top down). The majority of patients recover fully with no long-term damage, though some have life long weakness.
Hope that helps

[TanyaS]

It's enough of a concern for the manufacturers that it's included as a potential reason for concern in the meningitis vaccine commercials.

[Scattershoot]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

never hear of Gullain-Barre Syndrome, so therefor haven't heard of a link.

What is it?

There are a lot of researchers who believe the thousands of annually reported paralytic polio cases never really disappeared. They were just renamed Guillain-Barre. The polio cases that didn't move to the paralysis stage were renamed aseptic meningitis or called the flu.