1 pack of pampers = 1 tetanus vaccine - Page 3

[karika]

they are giving them an experimental sterilization drug and mixing it with tetanus shot or just lying altogether...

pampers makers are involved in testing new drugs and poisoning mass populations of people in third world countries that are not informed of the dangers or that they are being tested upon. please read some information on them before purchasing their products. or, write to them. Here is a link I found on a quick search. Make sure you scroll down to the interview with the nun

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=67200.0

also, i believe the vaccines are dangerous for everyone, not just us americans. formaldahyde is formaldehayde and bovine and monkey dna is still there, and if you are a nonvaxxxer and you dont believe the vaccines even work... well i just dont know. i will not give my money to any program that weakens immune systems through western medical care or vaccinations. i suppport food programs, educational programs, and helping the indigenous populations back to how they used to do things before the europeans came in and threw off the balance and in so doing CREATED the disease and famine problem they are experiencing.

[anewmama]

Originally Posted by Marnica

I didn't mean to suggest they are guilty of this. Although they may well be in their clinical trials. I just thought it was related and quite unethical

absolutely. I don't disagree.

[Proverbs31]

Originally Posted by anewmama

Huh? Are you serious Proverbs31? It might not be OUR political that would stop it as the US is one of highest donors of aid (though some say we should/could do more... hard to say for a country on the brink of a depression). But are you just not aware of the issues facing development in some of these countries? Issues of which WE HAVE NO CONTROL?

Yes I am serious, which is why I am asking. I understand there is a lot of political corruption, but I don't understand why they would allow vaccines but not basic sanitary improvements.

[anewmama]

Sorry, that was rude.

It is not about 'allowing'. It is allowed. Or projects are funded. Read some of the links on corruption. It is not that there is 'alot of political corruption. It is RAMPANT. Imagine having to bribe someone to be allowed to enter into a hospital for medical care.

Or google "corruption bribery africa" for more links and information.

The broken governments of Africa are the root cause of many of their problems. It's a snowball. They get money to fix their infractructure systems, it goes into the pockets of ministers and mayors and whomever and the services don't reach the public. we see the effects and give more money. It goes into the pockets.. and around and around it goes. We are filling a bathtub that has a permanent leak.

[imbarefoot]

I'm staunchly anti vax, at leat where we are living and with the current vaxes on the market, and our level of sanitary cleanliness and current disease statistics....

However, (since we are using 'sposies atm) I buy Pampers because I do believe the children there need some vaccines, including the tetanus vaccine. The disease rates are much higher there, it's an overall very unclean and unsanitary place, and I do believe they are saving lives, despite of all the nasty chemicals in the vaccine. So, I support Pampers with this campaign.

However, it does irk me a bit to think that their campaign might be encouraging people here in the US to vaccinate and they don't realize the vast differences in vaxing here and vaxing there.

[mommy2jonah]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

Because these people really DO need the help. Ask any one of them if they would take a vaccination or see their child die of something they already know.

The devil they know is a lot worse then the one they don't

Not everything that is done like this is evil. Not everyone is out to make a buck. They sure wont make any money there. Thats WHY this was made, because otherwise there is NO way these mothers can get what they desperately need.

Exactly why they can use the woman to *test* their vaccine out. Why not use the people that need it to see if it works or not. They really have nothing to lose and it is being funded in part by pampers.


I saw a stat somewhere that said all that is needed to give everyone clean water in the world is 10 billion. Americans spend 450 billion on Christmas every year ... so my point is why don't we stop buying useless crap we don't need and give that money to people that can help with clean water. I know you all probably aren't the ones spending all the money but we can get the word out.

[Proverbs31]

Originally Posted by anewmama

Sorry, that was rude.

It is not about 'allowing'. It is allowed. Or projects are funded. Read some of the links on corruption. It is not that there is 'alot of political corruption. It is RAMPANT. Imagine having to bribe someone to be allowed to enter into a hospital for medical care.

Or google "corruption bribery africa" for more links and information.

The broken governments of Africa are the root cause of many of their problems. It's a snowball. They get money to fix their infractructure systems, it goes into the pockets of ministers and mayors and whomever and the services don't reach the public. we see the effects and give more money. It goes into the pockets.. and around and around it goes. We are filling a bathtub that has a permanent leak.

I guess I wasn't clear in my point; I'm not saying P&G et al should be giving money to these already corrupt leaders, but to provide the resources and manpower on a village level to make clean, running water a reality. If UNICEF can get in to vaccinate, they could also get in to distribute birthing kits; the WHO did this several years ago, in conjuction with vaccination.

[Deborah]

I'm always amused by statements that older people are always in favor of vaccines. My family is anti-vaccine going back to at least the 1920s. My grandparents decided against vaccines when smallpox and diphtheria and polio were still around. My parents stuck with it through all the terrible diseases of the 1950s (polio, mumps, measles and pertussis) and my daughter is not vaxing her kids. So we've got 5 generations of people who looked at the diseases and the vaccines and said no. And my grandparents weren't wealthy and lived in a less than perfect neighborhood of Chicago (admittedly, not a slum).

I've run into a fair number of people in their 70s or 80s who are very puzzled by the huge push for vaccines nowadays. This is not a universal faith.

For a picture of why disease rates and death rates were so high in the early part of the 20th century I recommend a recent biography of the photographer and journalist, Riis.

The Other Half (Hardcover)
by Tom Buk-Swienty (Author), Annette Buk-Swienty (Translator)

[runes]

Originally Posted by Proverbs31

I guess I wasn't clear in my point; I'm not saying P&G et al should be giving money to these already corrupt leaders, but to provide the resources and manpower on a village level to make clean, running water a reality. If UNICEF can get in to vaccinate, they could also get in to distribute birthing kits; the WHO did this several years ago, in conjuction with vaccination.

Yup! I would feel so much better about this campaign if they also went in and provided clean birthing kits. That has been shown to decrease neonatal mortality due to many other pathogens, not just tetanus.

Are the mothers in Africa given the information necessary to make a fully informed decision? What kind of pre-vaccination counseling are they given? That's my other question, and one that I haven't been able to find an answer to despite digging around the web regarding this program.

[anewmama]

Originally Posted by Proverbs31

I guess I wasn't clear in my point; I'm not saying P&G et al should be giving money to these already corrupt leaders, but to provide the resources and manpower on a village level to make clean, running water a reality. If UNICEF can get in to vaccinate, they could also get in to distribute birthing kits; the WHO did this several years ago, in conjuction with vaccination.

On a village level? And this will somehow bypass the corruption and roadblocks like even water scarcity in arid regions will just evaporate? Villages are not free from corruption.

When we used to travel in Norther Togo, there were alot of road blocks on the road. We had to stop at them and wait why my dad negotiated passage. I remember the faces of some of those men with guns. I am QUITE sure that bribes were a part of allowing our passage. UN workers and other aid organizations are also at the mercy of the bribe system in place in their efforts to reach remote, rural areas. P&G can not just go to remote villages to donate kits. They are donating their vaccines through an established infrastructure of aid, UNICEF. Just like UNICEF is doing with their birthing kits.



On UNICEF and birthing Kits:

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=3037685&page=1




http://www.unicefusa.org/about/values/index.html

UNICEF's Innovation

UNICEF has helped develop simple, affordable, and innovative solutions to complicated problems. A few examples: birthing kits to help women have safe deliveries; oral rehydration salts to treat diarrheal dehydration in children; portable School-in-a-Box kits to make classes possible almost anywhere; and solar-powered cold storage units to transport vaccines to remote villages. All of these are now in standard use by many humanitarian organizations, saving millions of children's lives.

http://www.un.org/apps/news/infocusn...ewsID=87&sID=5

Meanwhile, the head of the UNICEF sub-office in Mazar reports from Termez that the latest batch of winter emergency relief goods sent from Termez to Tairatan were health-related-including birthing kits, water purification tablets and syringes. On the crucial topic of education, UNICEF continues to negotiate with authorities in Hairatan to open schools for girls there and invite female teachers to return to the classroom.

And there are more links....

[anewmama]

Originally Posted by kidspiration

Yup! I would feel so much better about this campaign if they also went in and provided clean birthing kits. That has been shown to decrease neonatal mortality due to many other pathogens, not just tetanus.

Are the mothers in Africa given the information necessary to make a fully informed decision? What kind of pre-vaccination counseling are they given? That's my other question, and one that I haven't been able to find an answer to despite digging around the web regarding this program.

I am not sure you are digging hard enough into what UNICEF and the UN and WHO are doing in regards to these issues. P&G is doing ONE piece. And it using UNICEF to implement it's donations.

And for their sanitation efforts, also google UNICEF and water and Sanitation.

From their site:

http://www.unicef.org/wes/index_43109.html



What P&G did (2004)/is doing with UNICEF around water:

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1S1-1202100004254301.html

Also:

http://www.highbeam.com/Search.aspx?...water+programs




http://www.unwater.org/discover.html

The World Health Organization (WHO)/ United Nations Children's Fund (UNICEF) Joint Monitoring Programme on Water Supply and Sanitation (JMP)

The JMP, which operates under the aegis of UN-Water, is an autonomous programme implemented and supervised by WHO and UNICEF. Established in 1990, the JMP continues monitoring activities that WHO has been undertaking since the 1960s. It is the official mechanism of the UN System mandated to monitor global progress towards the MDGs targets for drinking-water and sanitation.

**********

YES, this is somewhat off topic. But I think the information being presented here in regards to what UNICEF is doing or not doing is not quite accurate.

Whether vaccines or good or not is it's own debate and should be addressed on their own. They are one piece to a vast global attempt to help the impoverished in the world.

I will have to go and look, but I very much suspect that compared the the funds put towards vaccination, that other aid is FAR more funded than people realize.

[KimberlyD0]

Originally Posted by karika

pampers makers are involved in testing new drugs and poisoning mass populations of people in third world countries that are not informed of the dangers or that they are being tested upon. please read some information on them before purchasing their products. or, write to them. Here is a link I found on a quick search. Make sure you scroll down to the interview with the nun

http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=67200.0

also, i believe the vaccines are dangerous for everyone, not just us americans. formaldahyde is formaldehayde and bovine and monkey dna is still there, and if you are a nonvaxxxer and you dont believe the vaccines even work... well i just dont know. i will not give my money to any program that weakens immune systems through western medical care or vaccinations. i suppport food programs, educational programs, and helping the indigenous populations back to how they used to do things before the europeans came in and threw off the balance and in so doing CREATED the disease and famine problem they are experiencing.

These vaccinations are NOT new. They've been around for many years and have been proven to be effective in situations like that in africa.

Dangerous or not, for someone living there were it is pretty much inevitable that their child will DIE from tetnus, it is less dangerous for them then the desease.

I'm not saying vaccinations are perficts. They are far from it, but its better then dieing a horrible painful death.

Originally Posted by anewmama

absolutely. I don't disagree.

I agree as well. Studies like that are unexceptable and need to be stopped, however THIS is not one of those studies. They already know what tetnus shots will do.

Originally Posted by Proverbs31

Yes I am serious, which is why I am asking. I understand there is a lot of political corruption, but I don't understand why they would allow vaccines but not basic sanitary improvements.

It is not the corperations that wont allow the aid in. It is the govn't of the countries themselves. They see it as a threat to their people, especially in Africa where trust of whites is VERY low (for good reason) and they're threatend by the western world. So aid needs to be sent directly to the people in need and this is the best way to do it. Just like the Foster Parent plans and other things like that, they're able to go in and help because they're directed to certine people. Its a different system.

Originally Posted by mommy2jonah

Exactly why they can use the woman to *test* their vaccine out. Why not use the people that need it to see if it works or not. They really have nothing to lose and it is being funded in part by pampers.


I saw a stat somewhere that said all that is needed to give everyone clean water in the world is 10 billion. Americans spend 450 billion on Christmas every year ... so my point is why don't we stop buying useless crap we don't need and give that money to people that can help with clean water. I know you all probably aren't the ones spending all the money but we can get the word out.

They're not testing this vaccine. They already have, its the same one used in the industrialized world. They already know it works in the situations like there. Its a totally different enviroment there vs the industrialized world. These parent would give their lives to vaccinate their children like we can in the west.



This is about getting the vaccine and living, or not getting it and dieing.

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

Its not that simple. In some cases there is NO alternative. Untill you've lived in compleat poverty you can't know what its like.

The only ritual changed here is the unintentional one, the one where these babies die horrible, and painful deaths that I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy.

These Mothers LOVE their babies just as much as you and I. They simply live a VERY different life. Saying their blood is on their hands, or its their own fault, as I have read some people say, its downright nasty and unexceptable. These people don't know any better, it takes time for that. NO mother deserves to see their baby die. EVER.

In many of these situations, clean water is just not avalible, clean medical equitment isn't avalible, often times there is no doctors availible, many live in single room dwellings where animals can easily go. There is no sanitation avalible.

Yes education should and is done. But thing can not be done over night. Untill the poverty these people live in is eliminated vaccinations are their best hope for their children to live.

For them the risk of the desease is a lot worse then the risk of a vaccine. This is how it once was here too. But we don't remember that because poverty like this is not often seen in our countries (I say that cause I am not from the US)

I haven't said they shouldn't give the vaccine. Not once.

But I do think that there should be efforts made to educate, regardless of how long it might take for it to facilitate change. The pampers program bugs me because it seems to promote vaccines as the cure-all.

And, of course, to say that educating the people on sanitation is not that simple, as you stated...but it's also not that profitable. Promoting a more sanitary way of life over there wouldn't benefit Pamper's bottom line.

[KimberlyD0]

Originally Posted by emma1325

I haven't said they shouldn't give the vaccine. Not once.

But I do think that there should be efforts made to educate, regardless of how long it might take for it to facilitate change. The pampers program bugs me because it seems to promote vaccines as the cure-all.

And, of course, to say that educating the people on sanitation is not that simple, as you stated...but it's also not that profitable. Promoting a more sanitary way of life over there wouldn't benefit Pamper's bottom line.

Not knowing the entire situation, its entirely possible that there is education going on, either through the pampers progrom, or other means.

[anewmama]

there is...

[anewmama]

Originally Posted by emma1325

I Promoting a more sanitary way of life over there wouldn't benefit Pamper's bottom line.

I wonder just how much it is increasing their sales. Would be interesting to find out. However, I am sure their donation is a tax benefit. So in that regard, there is probably a gain. However, they could just as well create a charitable tax benefit through any other donation means.

[runes]

Originally Posted by anewmama

I am not sure you are digging hard enough into what UNICEF and the UN and WHO are doing in regards to these issues. P&G is doing ONE piece. And it using UNICEF to implement it's donations.

And for their sanitation efforts, also google UNICEF and water and Sanitation.

From their site:

http://www.unicef.org/wes/index_43109.html



What P&G did (2004)/is doing with UNICEF around water:

http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1S1-1202100004254301.html

Also:

http://www.highbeam.com/Search.aspx?...water+programs




http://www.unwater.org/discover.html







**********

YES, this is somewhat off topic. But I think the information being presented here in regards to what UNICEF is doing or not doing is not quite accurate.

Whether vaccines or good or not is it's own debate and should be addressed on their own. They are one piece to a vast global attempt to help the impoverished in the world.

I will have to go and look, but I very much suspect that compared the the funds put towards vaccination, that other aid is FAR more funded than people realize.

You missed my point. What kind of information are they giving these mothers about what they are being injected with? Are they giving the mothers the vaccines from the multi-dose vial (which is usually less expensive), and if so, are they being told that they are receiving 25 mcg. of mercury per dose? Are the counseled on the risks of this? Do they receive information about the risks and benefits in their native language in a way that they can understand and with the opportunity to have their questions asked and answered?

Yes, we're incredibly privileged here, too, because of the incredible amount of information that we have, at the touch of a keyboard and instantaneously.

[anewmama]

Oh, I see. Yes I did. I have to run to meet DH but will be back... Sorry!

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

Not knowing the entire situation, its entirely possible that there is education going on, either through the pampers progrom, or other means.

Sure it's possible. But it's not involved in the promotion. Pampers could work it into the program if they wanted to, and then the main emphasis wouldn't be on the vaccine.

I don't think it's a completely worthless promotion. It has some good. But I think that both their country and ours (and Canada, hehe) would benefit from hearing that vaccines are not the key to all things health-related.

[Proverbs31]

Anewmama: thank you for your patience. I feel like this is a situation where there are simply no easy solution, so it seems at this point the vaccine is the most viable option.

Originally Posted by KimberlyD0

They already know what tetnus shots will do.

They're not testing this vaccine. They already have, its the same one used in the industrialized world. They already know it works in the situations like there.

No. As stated in the manufacturer's package insert, they do not know whether or not the vaccine can cause fetal harm, which is why some of us wonder if the pregnant women are part of a field study since no clinical trial has been conducted with pregnant women. In fact, not a heck of a lot is known about how the vaccine works; according to the CDC's Pink Book, the efficacy of tetanus toxoid has never been studied in a clinical trial.