Cesarean support circle V (December 12)

[OnTheFence]

[Admin note: The posts here were split from the previous Cesarean support circle thread IV to start this new thread. Please continue your discussion here. Thanks! ~Cynthia]

Before I had my first child I had read probably dozens of books on natural childbirth and the woes of having a cesarean. I read the Silent Knife while I was pregnant. Sheila Kitzingers books were on my night stand. I knew more about the ills of csection than anyone. I knew I definitely didnt want one. I was as die hard as they get. Mother Nature has a way of putting your life and thoughts into perspective.
Around 34 weeks I found out my baby was in a transverse breech. I was told of my options, I went home and began reading, crying, grieving. I talked to a midwife and I began to do all kinds of things to turn my baby. For the next three weeks I laid upside down on a ironing board (no fun), had massages, meditated, reflexology -- I did it all minus the webster technique by a chiro. At 37 weeks I went in convinced my baby had turned. Nope, she was still breech and now it wasnt exactly transverse, she was in there funny though because by now my ribs were broken. So at 38 weeks I made the decision to have an ECV, then changed my mind and decided to have an elective csection but when I got to the hospital I refused tto prep for the csection and demanded to speak with my doctor. She came and I told her I really wanted a vaginal delivery. She said my only chance was an ECV and then as soon as the baby turned I would have to be induced. This sounded better than a csection to me. I was desperate for a vaginal delivery -- I was full of fear and judgement about cesarean births and I went against my gut instincts to try to achieve the ideal birth. It cost me so much.
The sad thing is I have watched many women do the same thing. While I know plenty of people who have csections which could have been prevented or were unnecessary -- I come across just as many women who really did need a csection for whatever reason.
VBAC is such a personal thing. Even though risks of rupture are so small, I can understand why some would not risk it. I am one who definitely would not have risked it during my last pregnancy. I support VBAC and I really hope itsourfamily gets her VBAC but I believe she is wise for making an alternative plan.

While the ACOG and some medical facilities and professionals dumb down the risks of cesarean and do not allow VBACS, instilling fear into women you have a magazine that is supposed to support women, their babies, a way of parenting that is based a lot on instincts instilling fear, hype and their own brand of propaganda.

As you can all see there is a reason my name is OnTheFence!

[TOmomma]

I am new to this board and I thought this thread was pro-VBAC. At first I was dismayed that had chosen the wrong thread to read, but by the time I got to the end of it I was really touched by all the people on here who have had c/bs.

I used to think that anyone who has a c/b was a "wimp" and couldn't take the work of labour (it's called labour for a reason). Then I went into labour. I wanted a home birth, all natural, lots of flowers and roses and soft music... HA! What I got was three days of hard labour at home with minimal progression, gave up and went to the hospital, had every intervention in the book (pitocin, water broken, fetal monitoring, vacuum, forceps) and FINALLY a (I guess emergency) c/b. (my dh and the baby have VERY big heads!)

It was the worst experience of my life. When they told me I had a boy I said "good thing, because I'm never doing this again". (Now, of course, I want another.:LOL )

I think the reason I was so upset by the whole experience was because I was so unprepared. I refused to consider the possibility that things wouldn't go the way I wanted. If I had thought through the possible scenarios I would not have had to deal with the changes in plan when I was already under huge amounts of stress. We are lead to believe that a c/b is "giving up" and totally avoidable. In my case, my baby (and possible me) would be dead if not for a cesarean. Hmmm.... is there any choice there?

I want a VBAC the next time, so hopefully I can experience how a baby is "supposed" to be born. However, I will be prepared (much better prepared!) in case it doesn't work out, and totally accepting of that reality.

There doesn't seem to be a middle ground on this issue, people think you are granola and should want the natural choice regardless of the circumstances, otherwise you are a prima donna and are chosing c/b for "scheduling" reasons or other frivolous reasons. No one seems to discuss the valid reasons for choosing a c/b.

I applaud all you women who are having babies regardless of your method of delivery. Don't let anyone belittle your choices.

MDC, give us our own subforum!!!

[Peppermint]

Welcome TOmamma! We are a pro-VBAC bunch, just so happens we are also pro-repeat c-section We want whatever is BEST for babies and their mothers, with no agenda toward pushing women's choices in that regard But, you read the thread, so you know that

Yes, we are a darn radical bunch on here, asking that our voices be heard as women with children that we have made the best possible choices for, and for one reason or another (sometimes our choices, sometimes not) we have had c-sections. One thing we are not is uninformed- so feel free to throw out any questions or concerns you have.

I hope and pray that those who want to VBAC are successful, and I also beleive that many can be, you educate yourself, you decide what risks you are willing to take (with any birth), and you do what is best for you and your child. You will get lots of support in the VBAC section to help you make your wishes a reality, and we are a place where you can get support if you want a back-up plan (like It'sOurFamily) or a shoulder to cry on, or people to commiserate, and support you no matter what birth option you chose in the end, or a choice you may not get to make yourself.

Best wishes to you, and thanks for seeing us

[KKmama]

Welcome, TOmomma! I totally agree with what Patty said. And I really identify with a lot of what you wrote in your post.

And I'll say it again... I'd really like a VBAC with this baby, but I also know that if I am not mentally prepared for the possibility of a C, the (hopefully unlikely) C would feel pretty traumatic. And I want to be able to hit the ground running once the baby is born; to me, that means not feeling traumatized by the birth, however it happens.

Changing the subject a bit... I just wondered how many of us hanging out on this thread are currently pg, when we're due, and what our plans are? I'm due in May, and planning for a VBAC...

[OnTheFence]

Originally posted by TOmomma

It was the worst experience of my life. When they told me I had a boy I said "good thing, because I'm never doing this again". (Now, of course, I want another.:LOL )

I think the reason I was so upset by the whole experience was because I was so unprepared. I refused to consider the possibility that things wouldn't go the way I wanted. If I had thought through the possible scenarios I would not have had to deal with the changes in plan when I was already under huge amounts of stress. We are lead to believe that a c/b is "giving up" and totally avoidable. In my case, my baby (and possible me) would be dead if not for a cesarean. Hmmm.... is there any choice there?

I want a VBAC the next time, so hopefully I can experience how a baby is "supposed" to be born. However, I will be prepared (much better prepared!) in case it doesn't work out, and totally accepting of that reality.

Lise, Wow thanks for the great posts to this thread. I was much like you. I didnt prepare at all for my first csection. I was so convinced not me. I mean I am tall with big boobs and hips and thought babies would just slide right out. I have a high tolerance to pain and hate medical intervention. So having a csection was foreign.

When I found out my daughter was breech and that I might have to have a csection only one person gave me an idea of what it would be like. Everyone else was telling my how I could avoid it, how that my body would work in time, blah blah blah. A few weeks later I was being carved like a fish and feeling it all with very little support from my crunchy friends. I did feel like a failure.


I like you was thinking no more kiddos, we did try to get pregnant again but after failed attempts, miscarriage and the nightmare I would have to have another cesarean we adopted (hes a csection baby too) I found myself pregnant nine months later and had to face my fears. I was supported by very few people to have a repeat csection. I was asked all the time about VBAC. I REALLY WANTED TOO!!! I even thought about HBAC but I knew this wasnt realistic. I had to fight to keep my pregnancy from the very beginning. I threw up for 36 weeks. I had to be on progesterone, I had contractions at 14 weeks onward, and I began spilling protein and having high blood pressure. Of course that was my fault. I changed my already good diet, drank protien shakes a friend brought me, took extra this and that but my BP didnt change. Yet everything you read here and other places PIH, GD, and preeclampsia are all caused by something the mother does or doesnt do. My OB finally told me on one of my final appointments that chit just happens and to not allow those people to judge me and that sometimes there is no defined reason as to why women get pre eclampsia. I beat myself up for weeks.

I hope with your next pregnancy you can achieve the birth you want. Just know that if you find yourself facing similar circumstances there is those of us who have had good experience planning and making cesarean birth plans. My last one was wonderful. I had a wonderful recovery and experience.

[OnTheFence]

Originally posted by KKmama

Changing the subject a bit... I just wondered how many of us hanging out on this thread are currently pg, when we're due, and what our plans are? I'm due in May, and planning for a VBAC...

I am not pregnant. I am considering another pregnancy at this time. The recent news of my aunts hysterectomy may be pushing up the time frame to try for baby number 4. I will even be considering having my uterus removed if I have a planned csection.
I have a long line of women in my family that have ovarian, uterine, and breast cancer. I love my reproductive organs, but frankly I dont want them to be the death of me, plus my uterus is deformed anyway and I am only willing to do one more full term pregnancy with it. It might not be ideal to have a hysterectomy after having a baby but why go through two surgeries if I can get it all in one! They only thing I would hate was having to do the GA and not have the epidural block I had with my son and the long term painrelief with the PCAP I had through my epidural cath. I might would be willing to do this though to save myself from misery later.
Decisions, Decisions.
I just love this thread !!!

[Megs Mom]

Originally posted by KKmama
Changing the subject a bit... I just wondered how many of us hanging out on this thread are currently pg, when we're due, and what our plans are? I'm due in May, and planning for a VBAC...

See my sig. Patrick is footling so I am planning for the possibility of a c/b.

[its_our_family]

I am currently pregnant and I am due Jan 31. I am trying to find a new care provider....

I have a lead on a guy that 2 of my friends have used. One is very non-intervention and the other was induced early 2x for supposed big size (her babe born in October this year was 10lbs 13.5oz )

So I figure I'll go in with my birth plan and say...here ya go, ya got any problems with it. And then go from there.

Oh, and welcome to TOmama. like jess said. We aren't anti vbac...we are pro-making your own decision!

[Peppermint]

I am pregnant too, due same day as IOF- January 31, but as I mentioned, I am planning a repeat c-section and have scheduled it for January 23 (bright and early in the morning ), it will be my 3rd c-section, and all of my children will be born that way, due to a deformed pelvis. (I did want a VBAC with my second child, but it just isn't in the cards for me).

[its_our_family]

ooooo... I bet an early morning c/b is much much better than mine was. It was after 9pm! He was born and all dh and I wanted to do was go to bed!

[ren_]

This is sort of long...sorry


Hey, just found this thread. I'm happy to see it since I was starting to feel odd reading all of the happy home birth and unmedicated stories. I just had my baby girl back in September and had to have a c/s and am already debating whether to try a vbac or another c/s with the next one (hopefully wont have to make the decision for a few years) My doctors told me that the way they cut I could try a vbac if I choose to but never mentioned anything about risks. They just said that I'd probably end up having to have another c/s.
I have no idea if mine was completely necessary. It probably wouldnt have been if they hadnt used so much medication and such and had me on ivs and with a catheter and all so I couldnt move much, but then again my baby's head was sideways and she wouldn't progress. I think something might be sideways inside me...I'm not sure, just know that cervical checks really really hurt and one at 37 weeks made me start bleeding so after that they didnt do anymore until I was in labor. When I was in labor one of the nurses had me make a fist and hold my hips at an angle and it didnt hurt as much that way.
Anyway, I'm really debating now since I wouldnt want to try a vbac and have it turn out that something is tilted and have it cause something to happen to my baby. I'd wanted a home birth but since my husband wasn't at all comfortable with that I went through all the doctors appointments and such for him, but made him come with me for almost every one of them. My water broke on the morning of the 19th of sept...but contractions didnt start so I put off going to the hospital or even calling...I had my mom with me and didnt need nurses to tell me anything...that evening we decided to go in anyway and once i got there the fluid stopped temporarily so they couldnt prove it was amniotic fluid... turns out some test they do cant tell the difference between urine and amniotic fluid?! so they sent me home, as if I had just been peeing on myself for 12 hours straight...and set up an appointment for the next day, or to come back if it started again or contractions started. They did later that night but I wasnt going to go and have them tell me to go home again so...I went to sleep instead and went in the next morning. The next morning I was dilated 1 to 2 cm, contractions had started so they checked me into a room.
They induced (although they didnt call it that at that point of course) the labor. Then decided it was going too fast and gave me more junk to slow it down. Then induced it again, with some tablet thing they inserted. I didnt really know to refuse for them to do anything and my mom left the decisions up to me, so... if they tried that the next time I would know better. Anyway, eventually they said there was no progression, it was taking too long to dilate, etc. and that I needed a c/s because the baby's head was sideways. I guess she didn't want to come out of there...cant say that I blame her sometimes
Anyway, are there good links to read about the risks of vbac to help me make an informed decision (in a few years!!) ? I really am worried about the dangers associated with vbac. Is it possible to have a homebirth after a c/s or will most midwives feel that the risks are too high??

[Hikaru]

TOmamma and ren_, welcome. Glad you found us and thank you for sharing your stories.

None of us are anti-vbac or pro-repeat cesarian. We're all pro-baby and pro-mama though
A couple of things....I wanted to mention, as LadyLee educated me when I first found this thread, that some of us here prefer the term cesarian birth instead of cesarian section...don't know about you but I am NOT a citrus fruit, LOL. If you end up with a baby, you had a BIRTH, period, no matter how that birth came about.
Another thing, for some of us, yourselves included I'm sure,cesarian was not really a "choice",
or rather it was choosing to live or choosing not to seriously damage yourself and/or your baby.

[OnTheFence]

I was just wanting to bump this up because I dont want our little support thread disappearing.

Welcome ren!

If you suspect your uterus could be slightly "off" before attempting another pregnancy consider an hsg. I have a deformed uterus and my first child was a weird transverse breech, my second child is adopted, the third child is homegrown like the first and he was head down, but his head was at a weird angle and his shoudler was presenting agains the cervix. He was like that for several weeks in the end. I doubt he could have been a vaginal birth. Heck they had a hard time unlodging his head during my c/b.

Kim

[TOmomma]

Hey Kim, what are you, my evil twin???

I mean I am tall with big boobs and hips and thought babies would just slide right out. I have a high tolerance to pain and hate medical intervention. So having a csection was foreign.

EXACTLY! And...

I doubt he could have been a vaginal birth. Heck they had a hard time unlodging his head during my c/b.

They had to push my son backwards HARD just to get him out of the birth canal.

LOVE this thread. Thanks to all for the greetings. There's a SLIM chance I might be pregnant (I'll know for sure on Christmas day! What a great present, or disappointment.) so this might become a more immediate concern for me.

Fortunately I have a great midwife who is very suppportive of my choices. I'd like a HVBAC. but hubby won't go for the HB part this time (can't blame him) and we'll have to play the rest by ear.

I've gone back to my childhood - my motto is Be Prepared!

[OnTheFence]

Hi Lise,

Maybe I am your evil twin. :LOL

My husband would not go for a HB at this juncture either. He wasnt too fond of the idea to begin with but said he would support me, of course this was before my first csection. O well.

Kim

[Megs Mom]

My update: I am dilated 1 cm and my cervix has moved from posterior to anterior. Patrick is still breech. OB thinks my kidney stone is gone, I don't. So...we will do an u/s on the kidney next week. If it's still there we will do an amnio to see if baby lungs are mature. They are both about 4-1/2 pounds today. If lungs are OK, will schedule my c-birth for 36 weeks. If stone is gone, c-birth will be closer to 37 weeks.

[Hikaru]

Meg's Mom..wow, already dilated?? I never dilated more than 3 cm. aven after 34 hours of contractions.You'll be in my thoughts and prayers, hope it all goes well.

OnThe Fence and TOmomma, my DH was totally against a homebirth too (which is just as well, because we would have ended up having to call an ambulance and been taken to god knows what awful hospital). He said that I'd be in the middle of labor and have to do CPR on him! In all my anger and need to blame someone for my first cesarian birth he was one of the main targets. We nearly got divorced in the first year of my sons life.
It has been a long struggle but I can safely say now that I would rather have cesarians with him right there in the same room (they have no problem with that at the clinic where both my babies were born) that any other kind of birth without his support. If I had had an unassisted homebirth the second time
(midwives here in Japan would not work with me as a VBAC) I would have had to do it as a single mother.

[MamaOui]

I think I have only lurked on this thread, but I have posted at MDC about my c-birth experience and my VBAC experience. I am planning a water birth VBAC for my babe. She is due at the end of January.

However, I have a c-birth plan and I will never have the attitude that it can't happen to me. I have been doing a lot of reading, yoga, positive thinking and meditation, and I have been having great dialogue with my dh and midwives about my next birth.

I wish all of you the best and it's great to see everyone here gathering information and support.

[its_our_family]

I am so completely confused right now. I know if i don't try and vbac I'll never let myself go of it. I'll always be thinking...what if. I feel like I was cheated out of so much with Tracy and I want something better than I had with his delivery. I know I need to listen to my body when the time comes but right now I can't stop listening to my heart. My mind is saying screw-it and plan the c/b. The rest of me is aching for the birth exp I didn't have.

I don't know what to do. I haven't really "prepared" for a vbac. I can't get up the energy or desire to look at any books or do anymore research (I haven't done that much anyway). I don't know why I jsut cannot get into this.

[Hikaru]

it's our family, my heart goes out to you.
I identify with your wanting to plan the outcome. Like me, you probably want to have some control over your birth experience and feel like you didn't have that with your previous birth.
Can you try to just be open to the possibility of a repeat cesarian if it becomes necessary, while still trying for a VBAC? Do a little research, and at the very least, insist that your labor start naturally unless it's an emergency. That's what I did with my DD's birth in October, and I didn't feel like a failure as I did three years ago when DS was born. It's hard to not know how it will turn out
but that way you'll have all the bases covered, so to speak, and know that you did your best.

Hope this helps.