Formaldehyde

[mammabunny]

Have you seen this "Group finds carcinogens in kids bath products" - Twenty-three of 28 products tested contained formaldehyde.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...de_N.htm#table

I'm bringing this up in the vaccine board, as it's a friend who sent the article and "warned" me of formaldehyde, she expressed concern for all the yrs. her 10yr daughter has spent in the tub.

I thought this was rather ironic, b/c she works for the CDC and is totally pro-vaccine. She gets angry if you even question vaccination. She asked her pediatrian if he could give her daughter the HPV vax early. She and I do not discuss vaccines, b/c she knows I don't agree with her stance. But I had to respond to her email, by informing(or remiding) her that there is formaldehyde in vaccines, that were injected into her daughter's body when she was a baby.

I also have friends who use natural deoderant (i do too) to avoid aluminum, but they don't seem to mind it injected into their child.

I guess I'm posting this, to hear if other moms out there, deal with this "hypocricy." I don't blame a person for having their opinion or belief. And I don't lecture them either. But I get irritated when their own beliefs are conflicting.

anyone?

[emma1325]

Yeah, I have a problem with people whose beliefs aren't consistent as well. Although your friend's case (even though she works for the CDC) may have been out of ignorance...maybe she had never actually considered some of the toxic ingredients in vaccines.

Also, I think many people know that there are toxic ingredients, but believe so strongly that vaccines are necessary that they will force themselves not to think about what those toxins may do to their childrens' bodies. I know...I used to be one of these people. I did 2 sets of shots knowing that there were potentially harmful ingredients, but I was so convinced that she needed the shots to stay healthy, I simply chose to ignore the nagging worries.

Some people may feel that not getting the shots is not an option, so there's no need to concern themselves with potential negative effects.

[Marnica]

I see thes conflicting opinions all the time. I think Its quite common. and agree its is due to a combination of ignorance and denial.

[swissmom]

I'm completely on your side. The thing is, there are many different forms of formaldehyde and the one in vaccines isn't toxic. Read this from InsideVaccines:

...formaldehyde used in vaccines does not have the same chemical properties as the formaldehyde mixtures used in building materials or the burial process, given that chemical reactions and/or hindrances may have taken place. Vaccines utilize formaldehyde that is identical to the substance found naturally in our bodies as a metabolic byproduct of methanol.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by swissmom

I'm completely on your side. The thing is, there are many different forms of formaldehyde and the one in vaccines isn't toxic. Read this from InsideVaccines:

I beg to differ...while the form in vaccines is not the same as the form in embalming fluid. It is still a SYNTHETIC version of what our bodies normally produce. I don't think we can dismiss anything synthetic as being harmless or non toxic. Just my opinion

[Deborah]

true, synthetic and natural are different things, for sure. Plus the amount of formaldehyde injected is equal to something like 1/10 of the total normally present, which seems like a lot.

However, in defense of insidevaccines, they were trying to clear up a misunderstanding that formaldehyde always equals extreme toxin. The stuff in vaccines is NOT equivalent to carcinogenic crap. But it may not be either safe or good, either.

[Th1Th2]

Originally Posted by swissmom

I'm completely on your side. The thing is, there are many different forms of formaldehyde and the one in vaccines isn't toxic. Read this from InsideVaccines:

...formaldehyde used in vaccines does not have the same chemical properties as the formaldehyde mixtures used in building materials or the burial process, given that chemical reactions and/or hindrances may have taken place. Vaccines utilize formaldehyde that is identical to the substance found naturally in our bodies as a metabolic byproduct of methanol.

I hope that website be closed for good. It has put good science into shame. Formaldehyde is NOT a naturally-occurring compound in the body. It is a TOXIC by-product of methanol toxicity. The host who is intoxicated with methanol must first convert it into formaldehyde so it can be excreted out. Formaldehyde is not only toxic but allergic and carcinogenic as well. In vein, to proclaim that formaldehyde is found naturally in babies, is simply outrageous to have babies ingest large amounts of methanol in order to produce formaldehyde. Bad..bad..bad.

[kiara7]

:

At last, we're on the same page, Th1Th2.

[Deborah]

Please, TH1TH2, some links to the science on methanol and formaldehyde? I'll be happy to pass on DATA to insidevaccines and I'm sure they would correct their article if someone supplied some solid DATA on formaldehyde in vaccines.

[Th1Th2]

Originally Posted by Deborah

Please, TH1TH2, some links to the science on methanol and formaldehyde? I'll be happy to pass on DATA to insidevaccines and I'm sure they would correct their article if someone supplied some solid DATA on formaldehyde in vaccines.

Alright. Here's some of them.

Methanol, from which formaldehyde is made, causes eye, skin and respiratory irritation and long-term chronic exposure can damage to the central nervous system and vision.

Toxicity of methanol is due to the formation of toxic metabolites; formaldehyde and formic acid.

Formaldehyde is synthesized by the oxidation of methanol

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by Th1Th2

Alright. Here's some of them.

And vaccines contain methanol?

Thanks...

[Th1Th2]

Originally Posted by emma1325

And vaccines contain methanol?

Thanks...

No.

[emma1325]

Originally Posted by Th1Th2

No.

I'm confused.

Can you explain the difference then between the formaldehyde discussed in the links you provided and the kind found in vaccines?

[zylph]

Originally Posted by emma1325

I'm confused.

Can you explain the difference then between the formaldehyde discussed in the links you provided and the kind found in vaccines?

There is no difference. I'm a big believer in "the dose makes the poison" and the amount of formaldehyde in vaccines is pretty minimal. But that site is not doing itself any favors by how wrong it is. Formaldehyde is not 'converted into formalin' in the body - formalin is just the name for formaldehyde dissolved in water (formaldehyde is normally a gas). And formaldehyde is not excreted in urine - it's converted into formic acid, which is eventually excreted, but not before blocking cellular respiration. And notice how everything on that list has H2CO in it? That's formaldehyde, all the exact same formaldehyde. There is no difference between synthetic or natural or embalming formaldehyde. The embalming formaldehyde does apparently have methanol and ethanol along with it.

Also, although I've never smelled formaldehyde gas, I can tell you that formalin does not smell all that pleasant. It's sort of up there with ammonia and phenol.

[Th1Th2]

Originally Posted by zylph

There is no difference. I'm a big believer in "the dose makes the poison" and the amount of formaldehyde in vaccines is pretty minimal. But that site is not doing itself any favors by how wrong it is. Formaldehyde is not 'converted into formalin' in the body - formalin is just the name for formaldehyde dissolved in water (formaldehyde is normally a gas). And formaldehyde is not excreted in urine - it's converted into formic acid, which is eventually excreted, but not before blocking cellular respiration. And notice how everything on that list has H2CO in it? That's formaldehyde, all the exact same formaldehyde. There is no difference between synthetic or natural or embalming formaldehyde. The embalming formaldehyde does apparently have methanol and ethanol along with it.

Also, although I've never smelled formaldehyde gas, I can tell you that formalin does not smell all that pleasant. It's sort of up there with ammonia and phenol.

A poison is a poison no matter how small. When the MSDS says it's toxic, poison and danger, you better believe it. You said "the amount of formaldehyde in vaccines is pretty minimal" will not make formaldehyde any safer. It is toxic by nature. The body doesn't need formaldehyde. It has no role in cellular metabolism because it is a toxic waste. Let me guess, are you also promoting thimerosal?

[Th1Th2]

Originally Posted by emma1325

I'm confused.

Can you explain the difference then between the formaldehyde discussed in the links you provided and the kind found in vaccines?

They are the same.

[caro113]

Oh I totally agree!! I hate it when people say one thing and then another and neither goes with each other. It's so annoying, especially when it comes to vaccines and medicine in general. Ugh. People can be so annoying.
But I will say that I do use natural deodorant and natural products completely. And we don't vax. Not a contradiction, just saying I do all that stuff :P

[gr8blessings]

Point of Information

Formaldehyde is part of normal human metabolism. An adult human body normally produces and metabolizes 50,000 mg of formaldehyde DAILY. The amount of formaldehyde in tissues varies from 1.5 to 15 mg/kg. (Clinical Environmental Health and Toxic Exposures, 2nd Edition p. 1007 - 1008 by Sullivan & Kreigar accessed via google books)

Vaccines contain less than or equal to 0.1 mg of formaldehyde per dose. (http://www.chop.edu/consumer/jsp/division/generic.jsp)

Compared to the amount of endogenous formaldehyde produced and metabolized by the body, exogenous formaldehyde (i.e formaldehyde in vaccines) is not considered toxic. (Sullivan & Kreiger)

HTH,
gr8blessings

[Th1Th2]

Originally Posted by gr8blessings

Point of Information

Formaldehyde is part of normal human metabolism. An adult human body normally produces and metabolizes 50,000 mg of formaldehyde DAILY. The amount of formaldehyde in tissues varies from 1.5 to 15 mg/kg. (Clinical Environmental Health and Toxic Exposures, 2nd Edition p. 1007 - 1008 by Sullivan & Kreigar accessed via google books)

Vaccines contain less than or equal to 0.1 mg of formaldehyde per dose. (http://www.chop.edu/consumer/jsp/division/generic.jsp)

Compared to the amount of endogenous formaldehyde produced and metabolized by the body, exogenous formaldehyde (i.e formaldehyde in vaccines) is not considered toxic. (Sullivan & Kreiger)

HTH,
gr8blessings

Detoxification of formaldehyde is a part human metabolism. Like any other exogenous poisons, the body has to break it down further to be excreted out. Formaldehyde is NOT a secretory enzyme, compound or metabolite on its own. Do not confuse formaldehyde as naturally-occurring enzymes or antibodies produced by bodily organs. It is a toxic by-product of methanol toxicity. Without exposure to exogenous formaldehyde and methanol, meaning poisons, there is nothing to metabolize in the body.

So what is the benefit of exposing newborns to formaldehyde? I hope the medical community comes up with something that is scientific.

[zylph]

Originally Posted by Th1Th2

A poison is a poison no matter how small. When the MSDS says it's toxic, poison and danger, you better believe it. You said "the amount of formaldehyde in vaccines is pretty minimal" will not make formaldehyde any safer. It is toxic by nature. The body doesn't need formaldehyde. It has no role in cellular metabolism because it is a toxic waste. Let me guess, are you also promoting thimerosal?

I'm not promoting anything. But if you didn't have formaldehyde or its "toxic" formic acid metabolite in your body, you would die. One-carbon aldehydes (like formaldehyde) are very useful in building some of the necessary organic compounds like amino acids, etc. Formaldehyde itself is pretty useless, because it tends to crosslink amino groups on proteins and destroy their functionality. So your body encodes formaldehyde dehydrogenase (indicating that formaldehyde is indeed naturally found in the body, otherwise, why have this ubiquitous protein?). This enzyme will very quickly convert any formaldehyde cleaved off other molecules (or methanol-derived, or injected formaldehyde) into formic acid/formate. Formic acid is used in the synthesis of amino acids like methionine and serine as well as the purine nucleic acids. All of these you need to live.

An infant will have much more formic acid in his or her bloodstream than is injected in a vaccine dose. Everything is a poison and everything is also safe. It all depends on the dose. Water can be toxic. Oxygen is definitely toxic. At high concentrations, formic acid can block cellular respiration and cause death. It's also a carcinogen. Formic acid is actually why methanol is so toxic. But you need it to live, as well.