Am I the lone loonie who found ROTK disappointing? - Page 2

[kayjayjay]

I think I picked this third movie apart more than the other two...perhaps because I knew this was the end. I know a lot of the changes/omissions were necessary to make such a very long complex story into a movie.

I too was annoyed that they didn't mention Denethor's palantir or explain his erratic behavior any better. Also, the meeting at the end between Aragorn and Arwen where he grabs her and kisses her was soooo cheesy. Very disappointing.

Plus, the scene under the mountain of the struggle between Frodo and Gollum was far too drawn out. The parting at the end also. I was just so ready to go home by then. :

Overall, I think it's a good movie adaptation, though.

[DaryLLL]

This is a bit OT, but this movie is entirely gay. The chemistry between the male caracters is much steamier than between any male/female.

Sam and Frodo. Aragorn and Legolas. Even Legolas and Gimli. Merry and Pippin. This is why those "looks" go on for so long. The men really love each other. The women seem like after-thoughts.

I understand Sam joins Frodo in the Undying Lands after Rosie dies, so they are together at last. Merry and Pippin buy a house and live together happily ever after.

Too bad Eomir and Eowyn couldn't have ended up together, but that would be incest of course. I thought the movie made Faramir seem like a victim and not a proper mate for such a strong female character.

I have not read the books. Just picked up stuff from my dd who scours websites, the movies themselves, and from here. Does Lego go to the undying lands too? Does he ever get a mate?

[daylily]

It is never mentioned in the books that Legolas does or does not find a mate. They're all strangely assexual, except for Aragorn and Sam. As far as going to the undying lands, I assume that all elves end up there eventually. Although, in the books, Galadriel says, "We must depart into the west, or dwindle to a rustc folk of dell and cave, slowly to forget and to be forgotten." I like how Tolkien sets it up that elves who don't go to the undying lands will eventually become what our own legends about fairies and elves are.

[DaryLLL]

Oh, poor Legolas. How unfair!

[Clarity]

1910 - 1960, England, Oxford, academic circles. The women were in a seperate sphere for the most part (even the ones who attended oxford) and most of the men were straight. Just like to point out that many public segments of society pretty heavily excluded women except for very certain roles (love interest, cook, mother, etc.) So, if most of western culture was entirely gay, then I can see it. In a biography, Tolkein claims he was 19 before he even knew was homosexuality was. But boys schools, Oxford, guardian was a Catholic priest who lived at Birmingham Oratory - a church with a large group of resident priests...JRR and his brother were there very often, later the army, the oxford again, and numerous clubs. The most interesting parts of his life were in all-male environments. And statistically, only 10% of them were probably gay. He had his own thwarted love interest he eventually married. He wrote another story- Beren and Luthien mentioned in the books and expanded elsewhere...he thought of themselves as b&L. As well, Eowyn is a surpisingly feminist character for a man of his time.

As someone who admits to having Legolas/Aragorn fantasies...it's because I look at it with a modern eye. Men in athletics, military (particularly in war), etc, have often had affectionate and close relationships that are not gay. So, none of the characters are actually gay...but I think it's fun to pretend.

Legolas goes to the undying lands after Aragorn dies. Takes Gimli with him...one of the only dwarves to be permitted go there. Legolas and Gimli's friendship was helpful in healing long long years of rift and hostility between the elves and dwarfs.

[Marlena]

This is totally off topic, but you might be interested (if you've not already read it) in Fussell's The Great War and Modern Memory. Among many other topics, it discusses the homoerotic (as contrasted with the homosexual) in the experience of WWI and in relevant literature. It's an excellent study, and very well written.

[JessicaS]

Pippin and Merry do marry (female hobbits heehee) eventually.

Legolas it is never mentioned whether or not he marries. He is 2000 by the time the books take place so he could have married by that time if he had planned on it. I think Clarity explained it pretty well. Tolkien was a soldier so he was probably basing the male relationships on how soldiers interact with each other after going through hell together.

DaryLLL, Faramir rocks in the books. it is sad how badly he was shafted in the movies. He is one of my favorite characters. (Fav characters, Glorfindel, Faramir, Eomer) He isn't the wimp that he is in the movies. Yes, his dad is a jerk to him but Faramir more shrugs it off than is traumatized (whatever dad). He also REFUSES the ring.

He says he wouldn't pick it up by the side of the road if it was laying there. He didn't want to have anything to do with it. I was furious when Peter Jackson depicted him as trying to take the ring. But I have ranted about that before...so I better stop now before I do it again..but I was *SO* mad when Faramir was depicted like that.

In the books Faramir is the only one who *sees* Eowyn for who she truly is. Everyone else refers to her as cold. But Faramir sees her and names her, the wooing of Eowyn (it is only like three pages though..)is truly romantic and I would swoon over in a heap if my dh talked to me like he does her in those books. Plus he can kickass. Eowyn notes that he was more skilled as a soldier than any of the Rohirrim.

I saw an interview with Peter Jackson saying the Mouth of Sauron and the Houses of Healing were both in the extended version. This makes me glad but I am still suspicious that Faramir is going to get shafted again.

but he also said they had a really funny scene where Gimli and Legolas have a drinking contest!!! WTF!!!!!!!!!! GAH!!!!!!!! I really hope he isn't serious about that. What a freak!

[DarkHorseMama]

Originally posted by daylily
Aragorn and Legolas! LOL!

Well, that particular (ahem) coupling seems to have more than a few fans out there in the cyber world. Several months ago I was looking up information on Craig Parker (Haldir....swoon!) and accidently came across the concept of slash fiction on a few webpages. Now, I've been around the Internet block a *long* time, but slash fiction was new to me. Most of it was simply fan fiction essays, but there were a few creative souls who "devised" their own little pictorial fantasies. It is amazing what people can do with Photoshop and a little imagination. :LOL

[Clarity]

kirk/spock (get it, kirkslashspock, therefore the term "slash") started it all...now we have angel/spike and legolas/aragorn (among others). . I might be a big freak, but just like men seem to like that girl on girl action, having a requisite lesbian scene in everything that's at least softcore. A pair of nice looking men, what's not to like? LOL!

[Viola]

I agree with Journeymom--the scouring of the Shire and the confrontation between Saruman and Gandalf being omitted. Although by the end, I didn't care that the scouring was omitted because I was ready for the end. During the long drawn out emotional scenes I was thinking "Get on with it, will you?"

But Faramir, I didn't care for him at all. Just something about his face doesn't do anything for me. He looks like a male version of Cate Blanchett or something, and the look is good for her but not as good on him. I thought Boromir was much more manly.

But then I find myself looking at Gandalf when he smiles and thinking, "hey, he's kind of hot!" ROFL

Ditto on the battle scenes. They were well done, but there were just too much of it.

And Denethor was turned into a completely weak man with no redeeming characteristics. That really bugged my husband who said it was like it was too much trouble to depict him as a multdimensional conflicted character. Frodo was made overly weak too, like where he was tricked by Gollum, turned against Sam and sent him away.

And why was Arwen even in the movie, for heaven's sake? They could have Elrond bringing the sword to Aragorn and he and Arwen getting married, but no Saruman or scouring?

[JessicaS]

I didn't mind the battles. At least they were in the books unlike stupid extra Arwen crap!!!!

stupid extra Arwen crap is annoying.

Frodo *was* weak in the movies, it wasn't a surprise at all when he takes the ring and in the books you're totally not expecting it!!

I was wanting Sam to chuck Frodo, Gollum and the ring into the lava after all of that.

Pippin didn't get his moment either. He Kills a cave troll!! He got shafted..poor Pippin. (course he did do weird stuff he didn't do in the books like light the beacons which happens on the FIRST STUPID PAGE of RoK way before Pippin gets there)

[Viola]

Oh yeah, I didn't remember the cave troll part. I don't remember books after I've read them very well, and I just read these once two years ago after I saw the first movie. My husband has lived and breathed these books (OK, not that bad, but I'm surprised he doesn't have them all committed to memory at this point), so he can point out all the inconsistancies that bug him.

I just asked him which of the three he disliked the most and apparently it was number 1. Not because of Tom Bombadil, he says he can understand that, but because off some stuff that was added. Like the way Merry and Pippin were introduced, the way they were goofing off at the party. : I don't know, that seems kind of minor. Oh, he hated the way Arwen stole Frodo's moment at the river with the Nazgul. I can understand that. He also thought that Rivendell looked like it was full of cheap lawn furniture. Hey, I've seen those Frontgate catalogues and that stuff isn't cheap at all. I personally liked Rivendell. But Agent Smith as Elrond, well...

[DreamsInDigital]

I just saw it last night. At the end I was like "Okay, it's over. Oh wait! No, it's not. Okay, it's over. Oh wait! No, it's not. Okay, it's over. Oh wait! No, it's not. "
By the time it was actually done I was thinking "Thank god!"

I never made it through all three books.

I liked the movie as a whole. I hated the lovey dovey yuck. The rest was pretty good. Not THE smash hit of the century or anything though.

[DaryLLL]

So much to comment upon:

abimommy:

Pippin and Merry do marry (female hobbits heehee) eventually.

NO! Sh!t. Where is that, in the silmarion or whatever it is called? Tell me more. Why oh why couldn't they have been happy with each other, drink and weed?

but he also said they had a really funny scene where Gimli and Legolas have a drinking contest!!!

Sounds delightful to me, but purist I am not.


DarkHorseMama:

Now, I've been around the Internet block a *long* time, but slash fiction was new to me.

My teen dds are all about the slash pages. Have been for a couple years. They have converted me.


Amywillo and DinD, I have to disagree, I loved the long ending. A little love and sensitivity after all the angst and battling was just the healing I needed.

[daylily]

The Silmarilion is the story of what happens on Middle Earth before the LOTR story. It starts with the creation--kind of like a Tolkein rewrite of the bible. Tells of the creation of elves and men and gives the story of Numenor, which is where Aragorn's ancestors ruled, and tells about the forging of all the rings of power.

But, as far as Merry & Pippin getting married, I now recall there's brief mention of their children or descendents being exceptionally tall--possibly because Merry & Pippin both drank the Ent's drink which made them grow. So I guess if they had descendents, they got married, or at least hooked up with someone!:LOL

[JessicaS]

Merry married Estella Bolger and Pippin married Diamond of Long Cleeve. Later Pippin's son married Sam's daughter (aawwww isn't that sweet?)

Merry and Pippin were both from a sort of nobility, Pippin's father was the Thain of the Shire (a title indicating the military leader of the shire which Pippin inherited) and Merry's father was the Master of Buckland which is the head of the Brandybuck family which Merry inherited. So they were expected to marry.

In their old age they traveled back to Gondor and died with Aragorn.

And that's another thing! The ent draughts! Did Merry and Pippin look taller than the other hobbits at the end?? NO! They were the tallest hobbits EVER!!

[Clarity]

I have heard, (though I did not really pay attention) that in the flash of the "shire that might be" in galadriel's mirror, two of the hobbitts in line are taller than the rest : merry and pippin. You'll have to check the DVD to be sure.

[Viola]

Originally posted by DaryLLL
Amywillo and DinD, I have to disagree, I loved the long ending. A little love and sensitivity after all the angst and battling was just the healing I needed.

I'm not opposed to the concept, but for some reason it didn't work for me. I was dry-eyed and unmoved and I've been pretty weepy lately. Heck, I cried at the end of Love Actually and at parts of the Playful Parenting book.

[Marlena]

I was wanting Sam to chuck Frodo, Gollum and the ring into the lava after all of that.

That's what I secretly wanted to happen, too!

[JessicaS]

Don't get me wrong. I did like the movie and cried during lots of it (like the Rohhirim charge I get all emotional)

I was just a bit upset about some of the changes.

Poor Frodo, he lost some of his best parts. I guess if they hadn't have cut them he would have seemed less tiresome.