Mean lunch lady - how to handle this?

[Tanibani]

Any teachers here? I'd love to hear your POVs.

It's a public school. My son is in 3rd grade. The woman in charge of recess supervision is very angry and loud most of the time. During lunch (my son says) she blows the whistle suddenly during meals into the MIC.

"Mom, why does she do that?"
"Please tell her to stop."
"It's so bad, but it's normal now."

I have visited him during lunch (last year) and I noticed it was hellish. No adult would want to have a lunch in that type of environment.

I don't believe it lends to a "good learning environment". I think it is psychologically harmful. Kids who are yelled at I don't think, go back to the class "ready to learn".

Yes, it gets loud (kids talking) but this woman is really fed up at the end of her rope.

(There is a day time custodian who is also very mean and steps in to verbally discipline and intimidate the children who misbehave.)

The principal is very passive and quiet. She is nice, but I think she is using other people to enforce rules. Unfortunately, the people doing it aren't good about it.

My son is "fine." But I know of one person who left the school (switched to private) and the lunch scene was affecting her. There were other reasons (something else broke the camels back).

I'm sure there are other parents/children who don't like the current environment, but I don't know who else.

WHAT DO I DO?

- write a letter to the principal?
(I'm afraid if I have a meeting, I'll be inarticulate and too emotional in person.)
- CC it to the Superintendent?

- Is there a STEP 1? Like going to the School Site Council first? (made up of Principal, 4 teachers and 6 parents)?

I really don't want to do that because I don't want to identify myself or my son. And people talk... SOMEONE will say something to them.

But I'm sick of knowing that kids are suffering and nobody is speaking up.

[MCR]

I'm looking forward to the responses to this one as I have heard we are having the same problem at our local elementary school where Dd will attend K.
I too am a bit emotional and feel going to the principal if it's still going on, I won't be able to get my point across.
This noisy, hostile environment I know for sure will have Dd upset and acting out, and probably getting in trouble.

[mamajama]

I would make an appointment with the principal and also put my concerns in writing. Putting things in writing will help you stick to the points you are making when you speak to the principal. Also, you will have an outline at the ready for a letter to send to the school board should you need to. It's necessary to advocate for our kids for two big huge reasons:

1) We want to help shape their environments to make them peaceful nurturing spaces.
2) We want to set an example of assertiveness for them so that they can learn to advocate for themselves.

I would say to heck with anyone else gossipping, or outing yourself. Why do you care really?
If you don't want your son involved, pop in this week while it's going on. Then march straight down to the principal's office and report what you've seen. It is absolutely unacceptable IMO for the kids to be treated this way and also for a Janitor to be disciplining them at all.

[TiredX2]

I think it would also be helpful if you could have some alternatives.

Do you know that other people are bothered by this? Bothered enough to come in one day a week and help out?

At my kids' old school every day the principal would play "The Sound of Silence" and during that time you *had* to be silent an eat. The rest of the time you could chat and he would even have kids come up and perform (joke, song, whatever) if they wanted to and were done eating.

Can you see if there is something stressful to the woman or is she just naturally mean?

Good luck!

[PlayaMama]

it sounds like some of the teachers at my school when i was young. i think they had been doing it so SO long that they just didn't actually care about the children anymore. there is a woman at the school where i used to work that was no very pleasant to the kids, and a few of the teachers aides complained. she was given a written warning and her attitude totally changed.

i think i would e-mail or go see the principal in person. i also think that having an alternative in mind might help as well.

[eepster]

I'd get a group of parents together.

1. The PTB are much more likely to listen to a group.
2. When she gets wind of it she is less likely to focus her anger at your DS.
3. Another parent might know more about how the school is run and who best to complain to.
4. If you've talked about it amongster yourselves first, you can get out all the emotional stuff their, before you aproach the principle/superintedant.

[Irishmommy]

Originally Posted by Tanibani

- Is there a STEP 1? Like going to the School Site Council first? (made up of Principal, 4 teachers and 6 parents)?

No. School council/PTA/whatever it's called in your district is not for issues like this. I would start with the principal, in writing (or, if face to face, follow up with a confirmation letter). Give it a week, then go to the superintendent, with copies of the letter to the principal.

[blizzard_babe]

ACK! I had a big long post, and it was eaten by the internets. OK, short version...

It sounds like this aide is either (a) overburdened (how many students is she supervising on her own?) or (b) not loving her job.

Last year, we had a similar issue here at the school I work at. The aide assigned to lunch duty, normally an affable, gentle guy, was being overly harsh with the students during lunch. Someone finally asked him him WHY he was less gentle than he was, for example, in the hallways or classrooms. Turns out, he was feeling completely overwhelmed by the sheer number of students in the lunchroom, and was resorting to harshness. We rearranged aide schedules, and things have mellowed out considerably.

Most schools don't have our ability to just rearrange schedules on a whim (small school, casual environment), but this could be a PERFECT spot for a rotating schedule of parent volunteers. THis could help in two ways:

1. If the aide is merely overwhelmed, this will ease the burden.
2. If she's just a cranky bat, she might be less so with parental supervision. Sadly, some people (not just teachers/aides, I'm talking everywhere) only do a good job when they know someone's watching.

Either way, bring it up with the principal as a PARTNER. Don't go adversarial unless you this doesn't work. Say you want "our school" ("our" implies parent/student/teacher/student co-ownership) to be a better place to learn, and this fairly easy fix could be a big step in that direction. As the principal for potential fixes, and as him to ask the aide. Even if it's pretty evident that she's just a grouchy bat, her insight could be helpful... or, having asked her opinion, she'll feel like she's at least been given the opportunity to participate in the process.

[Tanibani]

I want to thank everyone for their responses. I've talked to a lot of people and gotten some good tips also.

One tip my preschool teacher gave me was to bring her something sweet and say "I hear you are in need of a little sweetness." But I was scared to do this because I thought it would make her defensive.

Is she mean? No. She is deep down a sweet person. But, like me, when she feels stressed or overwhelmed, she'll scream and lose it. And I don't think these yard supervisors are well trained.

So, I like the idea of going to her and asking "what improvements would you like to see?"


I went yesterday to bring my son lunch (she wasn't around, so no screaming) and today. Our little group stayed by the class away from the huge lunch so I couldn't observe anything.

I saw her on the way out and she gave me an update on a baby squirrel on the grounds yesterday. She mumbled (as all the kids ran to recess) she had to clean all the tables by herself now.

I volunteered to stay and help her so SHE could go back to her REAL job of watching the kids. She was thankful. Meanwhile she starts telling me things I had NO CLUE about...
- how the day time custodian is too lazy to clean the tables himself. KIDS do this every day. WTF. I knew that, but I did not know that at other District Schools, the Custodian does his job.
- how he is too lazy to bring the tables in every night, so there is bird poop on the tables every morning and does he clean them? Oh No. She is.
- How she has complained and complained to the Principal about this, but she is not his boss.
- I'm like parents have no clue!!!! This is so unsanitary!
- Another lunch lady comes over (someone I've never seen before, she works at all the schools) and she says how my school is run is horrible. How right now at X school the custodian is washing down the concrete.

Wow.

So I'm fired up. I'm mad. I mean I know things need to change and I want to help change them. So I'm going to start talking to parents, observe the other lunch practices and bring them to the District and so-and-so's boss.

[PlayaMama]

i'm glad you were able to find out some of the reason behind her actions and maybe help getting her stress reduced!

[teachnj]

Is it just one lunch lady and one custodian for an entire lunchroom full of kids? In my school we have one lunch lady for each class. When kids get loud or out of hand (which they do when they are in not so structured places) they have someone right at the table with them. Perhaps the lady is just overwhelmed and needs some help.

I would talk to the principal and see what could be done to improve the entire lunch situation

[mommy68]

Originally Posted by Tanibani

- how the day time custodian is too lazy to clean the tables himself. KIDS do this every day. WTF. I knew that, but I did not know that at other District Schools, the Custodian does his job.

One of my children attended public school one year (we homeschool now) and the classes at that school were required to clean their tables at the end of lunch every day. I thought nothing of it.

I agree that there are some issues that need to be fixed in this school. It doesn't sound right. I'd probably go higher up than the principal.

[mommy68]

Originally Posted by teachnj

I would talk to the principal and see what could be done to improve the entire lunch situation

I agree. Where are the teachers during lunch?

[Tanibani]

An entire class has to stay after lunch to wipe down the tables. I don't mind kids cleaning up after themselves. They should. I mind the kids having to wipe down the (according to her) filthy tables. So she is barking the orders to do it. The kids should be running out to recess, not doing that.

Teachers are not supervising recess during their lunch. I think it's a union thing, where they have some "time off" from everyone. The lunch lady (recess supervisor actually) does have about 4 other women working with her, supervising the kids.

[blizzard_babe]

Originally Posted by mommy68

I agree. Where are the teachers during lunch?

If the schedule is like it is where I work, the teachers are eating their own lunch at this time. Trust me, teachers who have had a half hour break are MUCH better teachers.

[je309]

Our school has parent volunteers who come rotate on a once per month schedule to come in and help at lunch time. I bring my 4-year-old with me and he is able to sit and eat lunch with his big sister during her lunch time. The volunteer is there to help open containers, packets of ketchup, fruit cups, etc. and then to clean off the tables at the end of the lunch period. I honestly really enjoy doing it because I get to see how all of the kids interact with one another, how they treat the volunteers and the staff, their level of respect for one another and themselves, etc. I also volunteer on the playground once per month. Our school is very heavy on volunteering and I think it really makes the school what it is.

Maybe something having some parents come in to help would help the lunchroom situation. Good luck!

[teachnj]

Originally Posted by mommy68

I agree. Where are the teachers during lunch?

We have a 30 minute, child-free lunch. The lunch staff is in the cafeteria with the kids, along with our security guard. Teachers return to take the kids out for recess.

[mrsmom63]

I would do a few things. First, I would let the principal know that things were not going well (a call or email is fine). Then, I would contact the teacher and see if he/she has any suggestions (maybe he/she is willing to have students eat in classroom?) I would also contact the PTA (or parent teacher group) and see if they can set up something for lunch. Many schools offer a story time or movie time "proctored" by PTA members. It would only help one or two days per week but that is better than nothing.
If it does not get better SOON, I would get a petition signed by parents that complained of the stress level in the lunchroom. This could be presented to the principal, super, or even board. Sometimes people do not really know what is going on in the lunchroom because either they are not there or the staff/ children act differently when authority figures are there.
By the way, I am a teacher and at my school we have our lunch at the same time the children do. However, our lunch is separate from the children so we teachers can plan with each other, use the restroom, cleanup the classroom from the morning projects, call parents,etc.
Good luck.