teacher assigning materials

[InDaPhunk]

I toured a Montessori school the other day and the asst director detailed the primary class school day for me as follows:

- kids arrive, get settled, have some sort of circle time or 'starting the day' sort of group activity.
- the teacher assigns/hands out/directs each kid to a particular activity. The teacher goes home each night and reviews each child's activities for that day, then based on what they're lacking, the teacher assigns them new materials or ones they haven't worked on in awhile, etc.
- only after they've done that particular assigned work are they then free to choose whatever materials they want.

It was explained to me that this was because children often don't know what they need or want and so adults have to sort of help them along.

The only reason I even got this information was that the asst director said something about starting materials in the morning and then after that they could pick whatever they wanted, so I questioned further. I'd assumed that 'self-directed' meant just that. I'd assumed that if a child was neglecting areas of study that the teacher would find out why that was the case and find a way to get the child interested in a work, not just say "you have to do this, then you can choose whatever you want", but maybe my assumptions were wrong. I'm fairly familiar with some aspects of the Montessori Method, but not all.

Is this typically how it's done? This is a rather large Montessori school with great physical facilities. There was a lot I liked about it but this kinda threw me. I've put in an application at another school that I like better, but now I'm wondering if I should ask them even more specific details about assigning materials. Course, if that's typical then I guess each school is constructed that way. Both schools are AMS and have Montessori trained and accredited teachers.

Well, any light anyone can shed would be welcome. TIA.

Also, are any and all sorts of worksheets forbidden in a Montessori classroom? Both schools had some, but very, very few.

[BCFD]

I can only go by my experience at our school, but that doesn't sound right to me. Maybe this will give you a better idea - DD's schedule goes something like this (AMS trained teachers):

*Arrive/eat breakfast

*Pick "before/after school job" - there are bins in the room that have puzzles, legos, unifix cubes, wood blocks, snap and build type manipulatives, pegs/pegboards, bead stringing activities

*Teacher plays the Laurie Berkner "Clean Up" song on repeat for a few minutes (LOVE Laurie Berkner!!!) and this signals the kids to start getting ready for the lesson of the day/group meeting/circle/insert-whatever-you-want-to-call-it-here. The kids are busy, but quietly start to clean up (I love watching how they all help each other do this!)

* 15 to 20 min. lesson of the day, count how many boys/girls, say good morning to each child while they stand up, discuss monthly theme/holidays, weather, day of the week, month, year, letter of the week, etc. (they also do the Zoophonics program).

*From here the children are called one at a time and dismissed from the group to choose a job. The teacher usually will ask, "Where do you want to work today?" and the child will say "Practical Life" or "Sensorial" or "Culture" or wherever they want to go. Sometimes they just get up and go to the job they want without saying anything or they will name the job they want to do, i.e. "the short bead stair" or whatever. I know once the PL area is filled up, they will usually direct a child to go somewhere else (only so many spots at the table), but the child is always welcome to find a spot at the table later during the work period when somebody leaves.

*The work period lasts for 90 minutes.

*The kids are then called back to find their name in the group/circle and the teacher will start calling groups of kids to put on their coats and shoes for outside play. Once everybody has finished getting their coats and shoes on and have all found their names again, the teacher selects a random child to be "the lead out" (a highly sought after position - usually a child who is being a good listener, but they rotate it to make sure that every child gets a chance to do this every couple of weeks).

*Outside play for 30 min.

*Called back to patio area to take off shoes, hang up coats, wash hands, and use the restroom.

*Lunch for 30 min. (most kids are done in 15 to 20 min).

*Dismissal of half day kids while the other children clean up their lunch area, push in chair, and prepare their beds for naps.

*After naps it is more of a daycare routine, but they also have dance class on Wed. afternoon, Yoga class on Thurs. morning, Spanish lesson/circle, more free play, before/after school jobs, snack time until parents start filtering in to pick up full day kids. The children can also opt to finish a job that they couldn't finish during the 90 minute work period. I have also seen children reading in the library, doing a worksheet (their choice, not mandated by teacher), or working on an art project. All the supplies are available to the children to pick whatever they want to pick and is never dictated by the teacher.

My oldest child actually loves worksheets. However, the teacher never hands it to her, but rather she finds it on a shelf and chooses to do it herself. The other day she came home with a worksheet that had the word "president" and it was a handwriting practice sheet. They were sitting on a shelf in the classroom and she chose do that work at a table.

Oh, I wanted to say that the teacher and teacher asst. keep a clipboard in the classroom that they walk around and observe each child while making notes about their progress and what jobs they choose. The parents can pick up the clipboard any time to see what their child has been doing. I think they change it out weekly and file it for review during parent/teacher conferences. If the teacher notices that a child is avoiding a particular area, they might suggest the child try a job in that area, but it's never assigned to them. I've seen the teacher say, "lets try a math job today. I'm going to give you a lesson on XYZ." That sometimes gets the child interested in the area, as does watching their peers. My dd avoided the math area like the plague for MONTHS, but now that is where she has been spending a lot of time (she observed for what seemed like forever before stepping foot over there ). The teachers weren't concerned at all and said they would sometimes suggest they do a lesson together. If my dd said no, they wouldn't push her.

I hope that helped a little. Good luck!

[snowmom5]

Assigning work sounds a little weird to me in the context of the primary classroom (pre-3 to K).

However, I'll tell you what happened with my ds - when he was in his second year of preschool (4 y.o.), for whatever reason he did not want to do any work that involved using his brain. If his teacher let him, he'd come in, do playdough and socialize. She ended up having to remove the playdough from the room. She reported to me that he was underachieving (not for grade but for her perception of his ability). With my permission, she made him do one work each day before moving on to something else. I'm glad she noticed; it was more or less a lost year for him in terms of academics. He's still got perfectionism/underachieving issues but he's doing much better in K.

However, the K students have "work plans", which simply require them to choose one language and one math work each day. I don't know if there are any further requirements - I'm guessing it depends on the child and where they are in the curriculum - but since our school is a public charter, the kids do have to meet the school district's requirements for passing a grade (which are clearly spelled out) by the end of the year.

At our school, at the elementary level, the work plans, though they differ by teacher, are more complex - but basically a large chart for each week and so many of each kind need to get checked off during the week.

For preschoolers, I don't think it matters at all. But for the older kids, there are those who need that extra nudge, who are afraid of challenging themselves (it looks too hard, what if I can't do it, I'd rather do weaving all day long, etc.). For one of my kids, this aspect, of having at least some kinds of requirements to meet, is critical. (as one of my favorite quotes goes, when work is too easy, self confidence to attempt difficult tasks is steadily eroded.) I do think it's at odds with one of the basic montessri principles, but generally the kids still have some amount of choice.

[Katzchen]

Originally Posted by snowmom5

However, the K students have "work plans", which simply require them to choose one language and one math work each day. I don't know if there are any further requirements - I'm guessing it depends on the child and where they are in the curriculum - but since our school is a public charter, the kids do have to meet the school district's requirements for passing a grade (which are clearly spelled out) by the end of the year.

Our Montessori is the same. The 3 and 4 year olds have free choice, but the 5/6 year olds make a "plan" each day with the guide. They must choose 4 activities that they want to work on that day, including one language and one math. Once they complete the activities they have chosen, they have free choice with their remaining time. The guides only choose for the children if they seem aimless and are wandering around the room and haven't picked an "work" even though they have been asked to do so.

[MattBronsil]

Originally Posted by InDaPhunk

It was explained to me that this was because children often don't know what they need or want and so adults have to sort of help them along.

Children know what they want. To prove it, make cookies sometime and see if they want one without your prodding them to ask.

I would even argue that most children come into school with a work already in their mind of what they want to do. I remember a few times going to school (3-6) and having a specific work I wanted to choose.

When it's time to select a work, I've never had a problem with children not knowing what to pick. There were sometimes a few analytical personality types who over thought stuff and would have trouble choosing, but that was it. Usually the problem, if any, was 2 people picking the same work and then one of them can't do it because it's not available and they have to wait.

I'd assumed that 'self-directed' meant just that. I'd assumed that if a child was neglecting areas of study that the teacher would find out why that was the case and find a way to get the child interested in a work, not just say "you have to do this, then you can choose whatever you want", but maybe my assumptions were wrong. I'm fairly familiar with some aspects of the Montessori Method, but not all.

Your assumption is right.

Is this typically how it's done?

No.

This is a rather large Montessori school with great physical facilities. There was a lot I liked about it but this kinda threw me. I've put in an application at another school that I like better, but now I'm wondering if I should ask them even more specific details about assigning materials. Course, if that's typical then I guess each school is constructed that way. Both schools are AMS and have Montessori trained and accredited teachers.

I would always ask about things that you're concerned about. You never know what you'll find. But know the way it's supposed to be done is not the way you just described.

Also, are any and all sorts of worksheets forbidden in a Montessori classroom? Both schools had some, but very, very few.

A small amount of worksheets are fine. What you want to watch for is how the kids handle the worksheets. Are they taught to use worksheets rather than the materials? If so, it's NOT a good thing.

If I were to notice more worksheet work being done that seemed to interrupt the real learning that needed to happen, I'd probably pull worksheets off the shelf for a while. Worksheets aren't real learning in terms of what we're going after, but they do serve a small purpose in learning.

Matt

[eepster]

When choosing DS's school, I visited several Montesories. Only one mentioned assigning work.

We recently had prent/teacher confences at DS's school, and they mentioned that he shows practically no interest in any of the language arts works. We briefly discussed why we thought this was going on, and it didn't seem like a problem, so we're all fine with it.

Sometime what a child doesn't want to do can be just as informative as what they do want.

[InDaPhunk]

Thanks, all! That was extremely helpful .

Our interview is in about two weeks and part of that will include time for me to ask questions, and your responses have helped me with my question list. I'm sure I should have garnered some of the information before I put in the application, but since this whole thing is fairly last minute and rushed (due to a move and adjustment issues on DS's part) I don't have the time to be as thorough as I'd like. Therefore, the decision was made mainly by gut instinct- though I took a tour one day and then another day sat in on the four classrooms for about two hours and observed (should I have done it for longer?). I felt it was a good sign that I became so engaged in what was happening in the classrooms that I forgot the time and had to remind myself to switch to the next one. That didn't occur at the other two schools when I observed the classes. The one I chose is the only one that gave me information about how to observe the classrooms, though it was also the school that felt the warmest and most relaxed. In two of the 4 classrooms, I couldn't determine definitively which was the lead teacher, two of the 3 were so involved and knowledgable and confident about the materials. There was nothing I inherently didn't like about the school- though I'm sure it's not perfect- but there were things I definitely didn't like about the others. Those aspects weren't necessarily dealbreakers, but I haven't decided what we'll do if DS doesn't get accepted at this school- or if we decide not to send him there.

Children know what they want. To prove it, make cookies sometime and see if they want one without your prodding them to ask.

That was my feeling. If there's one thing I can say about DS, it's that he knows exactly what he wants. He's also very good at knowing what he needs. I know we AP parents say that when kids are very young infants, their wants really are their needs, but I find that's still true for my 3.5 yo. Clearly, he doesn't need to have a cookie every time he asks for one (and he knows that he doesn't), but if he really, really *wants* to do things a certain way or has what would appear to be a "want" but he seems hard-core driven to it, then who am I to label it a want especially when he vehemently feels like it's something critical that he "needs"?

A small amount of worksheets are fine. What you want to watch for is how the kids handle the worksheets. Are they taught to use worksheets rather than the materials? If so, it's NOT a good thing.

Out of about 30 kids, I might have seen 2-3 doing worksheets. I was just surprised to see them and I didn't know if it was a red flag.

One thing I tried hard to do when touring these schools was not to be blinded by materials, kwim? I didn't want the school to have the Montessori materials as window dressing but not follow the method that closely. I understand that MM can be modified to suit a modern education (ie computers in the elementary classrooms), but I still want the main philosophy to be adhered to. Unfortunately, I don't know much of what there is to know about the MM- though I do know some- so I don't know what's critical and what's not. I have books from the library and I hope they'll help me understand more and be prepared for our interview. By then, I hope to know what's critical and what's not. All the stickies were very helpful, now I just think I need a smidgen more in-depth info to feel comfortable making a final decision about schools.

All you guys' descriptions of your school days were wonderful, and the examples of "work assignments" (though they really weren't so much) sound more in line with what seems reasonable and not like what the asst director described. Perhaps she just simplified it for me (even though I asked quite specific questions) or maybe she didn't really know the process (not sure if she'd been a teacher before or not) or maybe that really is how it's done there. It was a group tour with a Q and A at the end and I asked as many questions as I could but honestly, I felt like the other parents probably were ready to go (since I asked all the questions except for one other couple that asked some) so I didn't go into it as much as I would have if it had been a one on one discussion.

If anybody has anything else to add, please do. I'd appreciate any information that you have to share. Thanks.

[wrzos]

I'm actually not sure if the 5 year olds in our primary class rooms do this, but I know from touring the elementary rooms, that the older children keep journals where they plan out their work on a daily/weekly basis. If they are not hitting all the areas that they 'should' over a period of time, then the teacher will work with them to establish bare minimums in certain areas. Say... they haven't touched a mathwork in MONTHS and their skills are not where you'd want them. She may tell them they have to include at least one mathwork a week/day for a period of time.

Nothing is very pushy about it, and it is more to help them keep track of where they are at. I do know that even though we are a private M school, they make sure the children are taken through all the materials that the public 3rd graders would have over their time there...

[MommaSuzi]

Our "montessori" preschool does assign a "job" (I know almost other schools call it "work"- I think it's semantics though and have just gotten used to it. I have a job and go to work each day and the words mean the same idea to me) in each area to each kid each day. After that they can choose their own. I had a hard time with it at first, because I felt that my daughter wasn't getting a "true montessori" experience. Because of our need for aftercare this was the only montessori in our area that we could enroll in this year and I thought maybe we would try it for a year and then switch. But we are 7 months into the school year and have re-enrolled for next year because I really do think they have a good program. It's not that I think Maria Montessori didn't have fabulous ideas for an educational method but I guess I have come to the conclusion that I just don't like set rules saying "this is how we do it and no other way is authentic". There are lots of acceptable variations to a theme in my book. I like that my daughter is getting a broad exposure to the materials, rather than just spending her entire day in the practical life area.
As for worksheets the older children are given papers to practice handwriting at home mostly. My daughter begs for "homework" so we've taken some and made copies so she can work on them at home too. It's not as if it's required homework though, but I think it's "encouraged" if a kid is really struggling with writing.

[Flor]

Originally Posted by wrzos

I'm actually not sure if the 5 year olds in our primary class rooms do this, but I know from touring the elementary rooms, that the older children keep journals where they plan out their work on a daily/weekly basis. If they are not hitting all the areas that they 'should' over a period of time, then the teacher will work with them to establish bare minimums in certain areas. Say... they haven't touched a mathwork in MONTHS and their skills are not where you'd want them. She may tell them they have to include at least one mathwork a week/day for a period of time.

Nothing is very pushy about it, and it is more to help them keep track of where they are at. I do know that even though we are a private M school, they make sure the children are taken through all the materials that the public 3rd graders would have over their time there...

This is how ours works, with the exception of my child. He is the only one who is assigned work because otherwise he "enjoys" doing the same metal inset over and over and then telling everyone he is bored. Really, he is extremely shy and is going through a overly anxious stage and transistioning to the elementary at the same time. The teacher did an experiment and simply started telling him what to do and he has perked right up and is really, really loving school right now. He is really blossoming right now. Go figure. Hopefully it's a stage.

[GuildJenn]

Originally Posted by MattBronsil

I would even argue that most children come into school with a work already in their mind of what they want to do. I remember a few times going to school (3-6) and having a specific work I wanted to choose.

I had to come back and laugh at this - last week was March Break here and my son was at his Montessori but it was "camp" and had some different activities. So when I picked him up last night he said "FINALLY I got to do my works, I was WAITING a whole WEEK."

[MattBronsil]

Originally Posted by GuildJenn

I had to come back and laugh at this - last week was March Break here and my son was at his Montessori but it was "camp" and had some different activities. So when I picked him up last night he said "FINALLY I got to do my works, I was WAITING a whole WEEK."

Haa!

I don't know if I posted this in this forum, but might as well say it again. I remember one day going to school and the teacher put the penny polishing work away. I spent quite a long time (at least in my mind) looking for it, thinking it was misplaced. I finally asked about it and the teacher said she put it away, but realized how much I wanted to do it and how I always choose it every day.

She quickly went around to other teachers and collected pennies and it was back on the shelf in minutes.

:

[Flor]

Originally Posted by MattBronsil

Haa!

I don't know if I posted this in this forum, but might as well say it again. I remember one day going to school and the teacher put the penny polishing work away. I spent quite a long time (at least in my mind) looking for it, thinking it was misplaced. I finally asked about it and the teacher said she put it away, but realized how much I wanted to do it and how I always choose it every day.

She quickly went around to other teachers and collected pennies and it was back on the shelf in minutes.

:

This is the sort of thing that I love about ds's M school. At conference I mentioned he loves coins right now, and the next day ds's reported there was a new "money work" on the shelf and he was so excited. He told a teacher about the globe he found in the garage, and now he is mapping South America.