lying, but not really...

[Super Glue Mommy]

my son keeps "blaming" other people for things. He will say my friend broke his toy (when she isn't even at our house - he just broke it while I was watching him playing with it) he doesn't get in trouble, and he's not upset about it. I fix it for him. I said "oh, the toy is broken. can you fix it, or should I?" am I handling this right?

He will also say people hit him, when they aren't even in touching distance of him. sometimes if you touch him even gently, he will say you hit him, but that I understand because he has sensory issues. His teacher and myself have been working to teach him what he can say and also, to avoid touching him without permission whenever possible.

He's 3 1/2 but a much younger 3 1/2 maturity-wise and verbally, with social set backs (ASD...SPD)

should I be saying anything else? his teacher says "_____-name-, no one is touching you" I haven't been saying that as I don't want to call him a liar... or state the obvious as if he doesn't know... but maybe because of his delays he needs a comment like that - maybe it would be reassuring? or something like "so and so isnt doing to touch you" (though I cant really speak for another person) I guess it depends on whether this is imaginative/"lying" or whether its misconception and he needs clarification. If its the latter, I would probably add "do you feel crowded?" or "do you need more space" or "let -name- know you don't want anyone to touch you right now"

any insight appreciated. I have a good idea how to handle "lying" (i really don't think that's what it is, as I don't think its being done with that intent) in other scenarios, but im a little stuck here. oh yeah, and what would one call this behavior, if not lying, since i don't think that accurately represents what is going on here?

ETA: it's never over him doing something he wasn't supposed to do or anything he think I might be upset about etc. I really think its just his imagination, but I dont know if I should point out that is not what really happened or go along with it or point out he is pretending, or avoid it altogether and just focus on what I see : ie: the toy is broken, instead of "no, so and so didnt break it. they arent here" or instead of "oh, really? when did she break it?" or "are you pretending she broke it?" etc.

[jivey]

I had a Nephew like this. He was 4. My sister was separated from her Abusive husband at the time. I used to watch him and his sister while my sister worked at night. He would tell his mom i hit him all the time and say the kids downstairs would hit him too. My sister said he started doing that at school too.So she took him to counseling and they said, he was just looking for attention. They told her not to be over concerned and react. Because that's what he is looking for. Ignore it. But don't ignore. Make sure he is not being hit. He stopped in a few months, the lying about other things. My 12 yr old still lies about stupid stuff. To avoid getting into trouble.

I hope this helped
good luck!

[HollyBearsMom]

I have a sensory kid and speaking to his both his OT and his therapist this is pretty standard behavior in kids with sensory issues combined with executive function issues. My son can walk right into a wall, completly alone and blame me in the other room. He can trip over the sleeping 100 lb too big to miss dog and blame him. You can watch him watch himself knock over his water and blame the table, the glass, the dog, anyone but himself.

We do a lot of of visual exercizes to help him, we talk alot about "accidents happen" and I do a lot of counting to 10 in my head. His teachers give him heavy work to do at line up time, he uses a disco seat for meeting times.

The key is getting his to recognize that accidents *do* happen and teach him what he can do to "keep his body safe". Kiddos like my son need to keep theri self esteem intact while still learning that to take to resposibility for their actions. At 3 1/2 he is still too young to totally get it but by modeling and reinforcing acceptable behavior he (and you) will learn to deal with it.

(please excuse typos etc, my spell check function isn't working!!!)

[lilyka]

when my kids would do this I would tell them"No M did n ot break your toy, you did. it is not kind to blame others. now lets see what we can do to fix the toy" at that age they would not get in trouble for the initial lie but it is a good teaching moment that should not be passed up. they have to learn the difference between the truth and a lie at some point. and if they are talkers (none of mine were) it might even help to discuss ways lying can hurt other people even when they are not there or how it is ok to tell the truth.

the whole people bumping into him and him saying they hit him. that is really something different all together though. however I would probably say "Oh honey, I am sorry I did not mean to hurt you. it was an accident. sometimes we bump into people and it feels like they hit us doesn't it."

[Super Glue Mommy]

Originally Posted by HollyBearsMom

I have a sensory kid and speaking to his both his OT and his therapist this is pretty standard behavior in kids with sensory issues combined with executive function issues. My son can walk right into a wall, completly alone and blame me in the other room. He can trip over the sleeping 100 lb too big to miss dog and blame him. You can watch him watch himself knock over his water and blame the table, the glass, the dog, anyone but himself.

We do a lot of of visual exercizes to help him, we talk alot about "accidents happen" and I do a lot of counting to 10 in my head. His teachers give him heavy work to do at line up time, he uses a disco seat for meeting times.

The key is getting his to recognize that accidents *do* happen and teach him what he can do to "keep his body safe". Kiddos like my son need to keep theri self esteem intact while still learning that to take to resposibility for their actions. At 3 1/2 he is still too young to totally get it but by modeling and reinforcing acceptable behavior he (and you) will learn to deal with it.

(please excuse typos etc, my spell check function isn't working!!!)

thank you for your help! is a disco seat one of those round seats they can rock around in? I was thinking of getting my ds one.... but so you think it is good for me to point it out to him? I know he is doing it in an exploratory or sometimes confused way (depending on the situation) so I don't feel comfortable approaching it in "dont blame others" "don't lie" thing because I don't think that is his intention. It's hard when they are delayed in communication, so I try to give him the words he is looking for, and address his intentions - instead of assuming he means what he says because if I did that we'd be in a lot of trouble lol "i want poop" comes to mind...

Originally Posted by lilyka

when my kids would do this I would tell them"No M did n ot break your toy, you did. it is not kind to blame others. now lets see what we can do to fix the toy" at that age they would not get in trouble for the initial lie but it is a good teaching moment that should not be passed up. they have to learn the difference between the truth and a lie at some point. and if they are talkers (none of mine were) it might even help to discuss ways lying can hurt other people even when they are not there or how it is ok to tell the truth.

the whole people bumping into him and him saying they hit him. that is really something different all together though. however I would probably say "Oh honey, I am sorry I did not mean to hurt you. it was an accident. sometimes we bump into people and it feels like they hit us doesn't it."

this is what we do when someone bumps into him. Or when he says someone hit him when they barely touch him... let him know it wasnt intentional. its a lot harder when he says it when no one is even near him, but its not him lying or blaming. He doesnt have the right words to say "i am scared they might hit me if they get to close" so he will say "no hitting! so and so hurt me!" but what he means is "don't hit me! im scared you might hit me!" I think for him its important to give the words he is actually looking for instead of teaching him not to lie - as he doesnt know what lying is and he's not trying to blame anyone he just doesn't have the words he is looking for. not sure what he meant by "friend's name broke my car" because that sounds pretty straighforward but really it could just be that he was playing with the car and thinking about her because he goes places with her in her car a lot. it could have been a slip because of what he was thinking while playing, or it could have been just bad expression - who knows what he was really trying to convey.

[lilyka]

Originally Posted by Super Glue Mommy

its a lot harder when he says it when no one is even near him, but its not him lying or blaming. He doesn't have the right words to say "i am scared they might hit me if they get to close" so he will say "no hitting! so and so hurt me!" but what he means is "don't hit me! im scared you might hit me!" I think for him its important to give the words he is actually looking for instead of teaching him not to lie - as he doesnt know what lying is and he's not trying to blame anyone he just doesn't have the words he is looking for.

Just because they don't know the difference between a lie and the truth doesn't mean it is too soon to start teaching them. not in a punitive way but in an "oops, that didn't happen, did you mean . . . ?" or even just restating things the way they happened or asking for clarification "I did not see suzie hit you. are you scared she might hit or bump you?". None of my kids were really verbal at that age but if they did say something off I would usually just say " Ava was in here with me what's wrong? can you show me?" As they got a little older (4 or so) I would stress the importance of the truth verses making stuff up and once they had a good grasp on the difference it was "no that is a lie. what really happened?"

[Super Glue Mommy]

I can see with a typical 4 year old but I wouldnt push it with my son. I really dont feel comfortable with saying "thats a lie" but I do see how he needs clarifcation of what really happened and in addition needs to learn how to say what he actually means. He thinks he is saying "please dont hit me" when he says "no hitting" he thinks he is saying "im afraid so and so will hit me" when he says that so and so hit him.

some of it is imaganitive mistake, but a great deal of it is not having the right words to use. I dont feel comfortable approaching it like its a lie when the issue is him not knowing how to say what he wants to say. how horrible for a child to be called a liar in that sense, when they weren't lying, they just can't express themselves. I think he's frustrated enough with his language delays without that added stress.

I also feel that children under a certain age don't lie (intentionally) and I certainly dont want to teach them HOW to lie by telling them thats what they are doing when they didnt realize! lol

what you said was really useful though about clarifying it for him. I still dont know how I feel about saying "that didn't happen" because if he could say what he means he would be saying what happened... so to him he would get frustrated/confused thinking "that didnt happen? I WAS scared they were going to hit me" even though he is saying they hit him that is not what he THINKS he is saying, so it would confuse him to say "that didnt happen" but I can see how it would be helpful to say "you mean ...." and give him the right words for what he is trying to say

[Super Glue Mommy]

my son also retells stories as if they are really happening. today I was telling my husband about how he said my friend broke his toy. so, he started talking about yesterday. then he was saying "(his name) broke it. (my friends name) broke it. mommy broke it. (dd) broke it. kitty cat broke it." and so on, just exploring with different names. NOTHING was broken. there was no "it" for him to even pretend was broken. he was just talking. or he got his finger scrathed by the cat a few months ago and every day for a month he was saying his finger hurt and the cat scratched him. I just said "oh you are remembering the time the cat scratched you and it hurt!"

just trying to give some back story as to why I dont feel he is necessary lying. Of course I realize some people may want to take this as an opportunity to teach about honesty, but he IS being honest, he just doesn't know how to use the right words, so its more of an issue of teaching him how to use words I guess. Now, if he were saying something to avoid getting in trouble, I would use that as a chance to teach about honesty.

I just really wasn't sure if I should go along with the make believe (when thats what it is) or correct him. I guess this thread helped me realize when its make believe (like saying its christmas) I can play along - but when its him just using the wrong words, he needs to be corrected to learn to express himself properly.

[HollyBearsMom]

Hi -soory just getting back to MDC~

A disco seat is an inflatable disc with bumps on the surface. It gives sensory input so its great for the dinner table, at the library and now its great for school. It helps keep my son focused but can cause increased arousal if he is already hyped up so when he was your sons age we used in on a case by case basis.

In terms of the "lying" I think it is ok to call him on it in a non judgemental way becuase I agree it is not lying in the true sense of the word. When my son insists the table stubbed his toe, the wall bumped in to him etc we kind of go with it. Something like "what a mean table, jumping out at your toe like that!!" This usually causes fits of giggles and then we can move on to addressing the fact running isn't safe in the living room etc.

When it involves real people that can be a little a tricky and we ususally rely on restating what he has said. "Hmmmm, so joey broke the legos?" "How did that happen" "joey what do you think happened?" and eventually the two work it out and or my son will realize that it was just a knee jerk reaction. However if he is in a high state of arousal we usually go the playful parenting route and distract/move on. Now that he is older we talk about it later, once the friend is gone and he has calmed down.

I agree it is never too early to model telling the truth, etc but I do think it is imperative to keep a childs feelings forefront. Many sensory kids truly believe the wall hit them, that the dogs got in there way, that they didn't bump into the kid in front of them because they don't know where they are in space.