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Desperate dad needs help...mom severely indoctrinated, please read

post #1 of 30
Thread Starter 
Just a little background info...the mother of my yet unborn child is very mainstream, pro doctor, and generally takes their word as gospel. she jumps at the chance to go the doctor and get pumped full of whatever they can give her. She is completely close minded to any sort of alternative treatment or medicine, and doestn believe in any sort of medical corruption.

She has it in her head that she wants to give our son whatever the doctor or ped reccomends, and this is causing some tension between us. A few times, me bringing up casual conversation topics about alternative medicine has mad her very irrationally angry. I tell you this so you can see how uphill my battle is.

I feel completely outnumbered and without a voice in my quest to inform her. I offer to show articles from the internet about anti-vax and the side effects, and her response is usually something along the lines of " These articles are biased, the source is bad, you cant believe everything you read on the internet". I offer to buy books, and she says she wont read them because pregnancy makes her tired and not able to focus. Her parents are also pro vaccine , and seem to have been pumped full of fear and horror at the prospect of having an unvaccinated grandson.

Basically i am made to feel like the bad guy wherever i go and with whomever i talk to...when we go to the ob/gyn's office theres pro-vax pamphlets everywhere, the magazines are filled with disinfo lies made to promote fear, the doctor regards my ideas of not giving shots as child abuse. I feel that i need to be a complete expert on this subject to confront the doctor, as she has her rheteric memorized down to a T and i would be left scrambling my brain for retorts. Hell, sometimes i even begin to doubt myself untill i do some more research just to reassure myself i am in the right here

i am pretty scared right now that my voice is not going to be heard and one way or another my son is going to get some nasty vaccines. this also makes me feel very angry and hopeless.

What in the world can i do to get her to see my POV?
post #2 of 30
This does sound like a real uphill battle. It doesn't sound like you are going to convince her of a thing at this point especially if she is unwilling to read and research herself.
My best suggestion is buy some books and just leave them out and about.

Try this book http://www.amazon.com/Raise-Healthy-...7097072&sr=8-1

If she is dead set on vaxing then maybe you can at least have her do a selective/delayed schedule. You can both look at Dr. Sears' book, http://www.amazon.com/Vaccine-Book-D...7097201&sr=1-1

At best just try to have her listen to your feelings about it and avoid any finger pointing.
post #3 of 30
I agree with the suggestion to get Mendelsohn's book How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor. This is written by an allopathic doctor. Find other material written by allopathic medical doctors that question vaccines, so you can show her that even the medical community has serious concerns. If she is that indoctrinated, then other sources will probably turn her off.

Show her the package inserts from the vaccines. There are plenty of websites that offer that info. Most people have no idea vaccines are responsible for anything bad, outside of a fever. Plant the seeds. She won't change overnight.

Find out what her fears are. Take them respectfully one at a time.

Maybe you could make a deal that you will read one of her books on children's health if she will read one of yours. Then you can discuss them.

The baby will be your child too. Good luck.
post #4 of 30
I'm sorry you have to go through this. It does sound like she is coming from such an emotional place that you are not going to convince her with facts. At least not yet. Have you considered talking to her about selective/delayed vaccination instead of straight out not vaccinating? They do less vaccines later in a lot of countries and have less autism, SIDS, etc.
I second the idea of leaving books around that tell about this.
Good luck with this... Just remember, even if there ends up being nothing you can do, there are a lot of kids who are fully vaccinated and still healthy. I'm sorry you're feeling so powerless... Maybe you can look at this as an opportunity for personal growth? When I feel powerless that's what I do Good luck!
post #5 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scattershoot View Post
I agree with the suggestion to get Mendelsohn's book How to Raise a Healthy Child in Spite of Your Doctor. This is written by an allopathic doctor. Find other material written by allopathic medical doctors that question vaccines, so you can show her that even the medical community has serious concerns. If she is that indoctrinated, then other sources will probably turn her off.

Show her the package inserts from the vaccines. There are plenty of websites that offer that info. Most people have no idea vaccines are responsible for anything bad, outside of a fever. Plant the seeds. She won't change overnight.

Find out what her fears are. Take them respectfully one at a time.

Maybe you could make a deal that you will read one of her books on children's health if she will read one of yours. Then you can discuss them.

The baby will be your child too. Good luck.
: good advice!
post #6 of 30
My dh was as mainstream as you can get. In fact, he tests drugs for pharmaceutical companies. I flat out told him he didn't get to take part in the decision-making wrt vaxes unless and until he had done at least as much research as I had done, both pro and anti-vax. He is now 100 percent on board and is even more vocal about our decision not to vax than I am. I just wanted you to know that if my dh can be convinced, your dw can too.

Mendolsohn's book is great; also find something that outlines the risks vs. benefits of vaxes vs. disease. There was one by Randall Neustedter (homopath) that really helped my husband. As a scientist, he liked to see the numbers - chances of contracting the disease, etc.

There are also videos available that discuss the dangers of vax.

Remind her that a vax can always be given, but never taken away and she owes it to her child to make the most informed decision possible.

HTH.
post #7 of 30
The parent who refuses (to research) loses the right to make a decision. Also, stay with your baby EVERY second to avoid vaccination. Keep your baby in the room for every test and exam unless it is an emergency. If they want you to fill out paperwork they can bring it to you. You don't need to explain yourself to the OB; you can always say "X is not up for discussion."

This link compares a 1980 vax schedule with a 90s vax schedule; print it out a leave it somewhere:
Over Vaccination

This is the vaccine injury table from the US Government National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program; I'd print this out too: http://www.hrsa.gov/vaccinecompensation/table.htm

Print out the manufacturer's vaccine inserts for the 2 vaccines: http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/package_inserts.htm

Hep B (given to infants to protect the promiscuous drug users they will become in their teens)
RV
DTaP
Hib
PCV
IPV


You cannot take out the vaccines once they are in; doing nothing is the default position. I would get some books:

For Vaccines:

How to Raise a Child in Spite of your Dr by Dr. Robert Mendelsohn

What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Children's Vaccinations by Dr. Stephanie Cave

Just a Little Prick by Hilary Butler

For Pregnancy and Baby:

Obstetrical Myths vs Research Realities by Henci Goer
The Pregnancy Book: Month-by-Month, Everything You Need to Know From America's Baby Experts by Martha and Dr. Sears


The Baby Book by Martha and Dr. Sears

and if necessary:

Toxic In-Laws: Loving Strategies for Protecting Your Marriage by Susan Foward



You can watch this video on youtube:
Vaccines-The Risks, the Benefits, the Choices DVD, By Sherri J. TENPENNY
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7018835240451107552



Here are some questions to answer for yourself in deciding about vax:

1. Name of the disease
2. Description of the disease
3. Length of time from initial infection to end of all symptoms
4. Infectious period
5. Normal symptoms of the disease
6. Known serious consequences of the disease
7. Proportion of persons infected developing serious consequences
8. Transmission route of the disease
9. Prevalence of the disease
10. Treatments of the disease and efficacy of those treatments
11. Relevant research about the disease
12. Name of the vaccine
13. Company that makes the vaccine
14. Contents of the vaccine
14A. The significance of whether or not the vaccine is live
15. History of development of the vaccine
16. Known side-effects of the vaccine and rate of incidence of those side-effects
17. Possible side-effects not yet acknowledged by the vaccine maker
18. Relevant research into the vaccine
19. How effective is the vaccine at preventing the disease?
20.What is the vaccine meant to do? (Many vaccines are not meant to prevent infection or transmission).
21.Number of cases reported each year.
22.Number of deaths reported each year from the vaccine and natural disease.

Here are some sources to help you out:

Inside Vaccines

Vaccines-The Risks, the Benefits, the Choices DVD, By Sherri J. TENPENNY
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7018835240451107552



http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwr_wk.html (download the current issue)
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...k-chapters.htm
http://vaers.hhs.gov/pdf/PackageInserts.pdf
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...40451107552&q=
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...87981735&hl=en
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...ses&deaths.pdf
post #8 of 30
My thinking used to be very similar to hers. What tipped me over was reading A Shot in the Dark....in particular the information in that book about how the vaccine industry works and how it and the government covers up the truth. That, and on my own, reading the VAERS database after searches on reactions to the DTaP. Once I became afraid of the DTaP, I began to question the rest as well.
post #9 of 30
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmeline II View Post
I would get some books:

For Vaccines:

How to Raise a Child in Spite of your Dr by Dr. Robert Mendelsohn

What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Children's Vaccinations by Dr. Stephanie Cave

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I just got the book How to Raise a Child in Spite of your Dr, but havent had the chance to read it yet because Im reading Raising a Vaccine Free Child, but I have read What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Children's Vaccinations, and it is very good. It goes through pretty much every vaccine individually and talks about it, and also gives you some insight for vaccines to watch out for in the future. Very good books. I was afriad I would have vaccine issues with my DH because I knew he didn't see things exactly the way I did on things. I just kept doing my research and would gradually make comments about something I had just learned. I was very fortunate that he didnt try to fight me on the issue. He knew that I did a lot of research would not do something to harm our child.It is hard to make someone who is so convinced in vaccines and everything else drs have to say, to see that there is a negative side to vaccines,I know because my in-laws do not like us not vaxing, but they have never researched the other side of vaccines. Maybe if you leave things laying around, like others have suggested,then maybe she will read it and get to thinkin about it.
post #10 of 30
What opened my eyes was the CDC website's listing of the chemicals in vaccines. www.cdc.gov Also VAERS.
post #11 of 30
Do everything you can to find a doctor in your area that agrees with your views. There are medical doctors out there that understand and even promote the decision to not to vax or use a alternative vax schedule, practice attachment parenting and other "alternative" parenting choices. You can give her books and articles to read, but if what she really wants is to take the advice of a live, in-person doctor, than give her that. People who are really stubborn need to "hear it from the horses mouth" so-to-speak.

Good luck!
post #12 of 30

I have to agree. You should get all the research together and tell her that she doesn't have a say if she doesn't educate herself. Definitely stay with the baby AT ALL times, no matter what. I assume you are having a hospital birth? Tell the OB and the hospital staff that you do NOT give consent for ANY vaccines at all and that they are not to administer anything without your permission. All you have to do is say 'lawsuit' and they will back down.
I know a couple in your situation. He was/is extremely anti-vax and she is extremely pro-vax. They finally agreed to do selective vax starting at 2.5 years old.

Off topic: but since you are so anti-vax, does that mean you are anti-circ too? You could use that to your advantage. It's not your (or your wife's) penis to cut, just like it's not your (or your wife's) immune system to compromise.

If you really want to, show her www.vaccine911.com and show her all the memorials for lost babies who were killed by vaccines or the babies who have neurological damage due to vaccines. I'm sure she won't want to look at a site dedicated to lost babies. Really, it's heartbreaking and would make any person cry.

I would also suggest going to your tribal area and finding others who have docs in your area who aren't massively pro-vax. That should definitely help your case.

Good Luck in your battle to save your baby!!!!!
post #13 of 30
Quote:
The parent who refuses (to research) loses the right to make a decision. Also, stay with your baby EVERY second to avoid vaccination. Keep your baby in the room for every test and exam unless it is an emergency. If they want you to fill out paperwork they can bring it to you. You don't need to explain yourself to the OB; you can always say "X is not up for discussion."
While I think this is great advice, sadly it doesn't work every where. When my twins were born (3 years ago) my dh and no say at all with them. They had to ask me everything, names, spelling of names, procedures that needed to be done (they were preemies). I remember when the NICU docs wanted to do a procedure to the kids. They told my dh about it but they needed my signature. When the doctor was talking to me about it, she would not even make eye contact with my dh and he was standing right next to me. Right after they were born, he told them their names and they said it didn't matter what he said, only the mother could give them the names and spellings. They had to ask me about not vaxing right after my dh said no to them. They treat the father as nothing but a sperm donor. It's really sad and disheartening.

I hope this isn't the case for you OP, but sadly, it probably is What and how do you bring it to her? If you start of like you are right in your thoughts, she is going to shut down. Maybe if you read one of these books, say something like "I was reading X book and in it, the author said X, Y, Z" Just do it as matter of fact, not like you are right and she is wrong. Also throw some numbers out from time to time. Like how many kids now a days have autism compared to 20 years ago. Another thing that gets people is ingrediants. Just say "did you know that there is mercury (neurotoxin), formaldehyde (cancer causing agent) and aluminim in vaccines? along with aborted fetal cells (human diploid cells)? Tons of people who do vax, have no idea that these things are in there and when they find out, they are shocked and causes them to second guess it. Here is some "reliable" infor for you

Vaccine inserts (ingrediant lists)
http://vaccinesafety.edu/package_inserts.htm

Vaccines that contain formaldehyde
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pin...nt-table-2.pdf

Aborted cell line
Info on WI-38
http://www.viromed.com/services/product/wi38.htm
http://www.cogforlife.org/wi-38.htm

Info on MRC-5
http://www.viromed.com/services/product/mrc5.htm
http://www.cogforlife.org/mrc-5.htm

These are just the tip of iceberg, but it's a start. GL!!!
post #14 of 30
Would she be willing to watch a video? This is one I would have her watch...

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...X0DER&v=glance

Vaccines: What CDC Documents and Science Reveal
by Dr. Sherri J. Tenpenny
post #15 of 30
first off: your unborn child is very lucky to have a father who cares so much about what is put into his body-good for you!

i agree with all of the other posts, especially looking at the sears vaccine book together. she will take this source seriously because he is a "reputable" pediatrician and even in his book he talks about the aluminum and such being toxic. i haven't read it though....


also, this is not the most honest advice, but maybe putting a little fear in her will at least get her research ball rolling there are stories out there of vaccine damaged babies that are just heart breaking. she can't tell you then that the source false because it really happened!

best of luck to you and keep up posted, hopefully with a positive outcome!
post #16 of 30
I'm sorry


you have a lot of good advice already. Just never give up hope that she will come around. Have her look at the CDC pinkbook as well. Good luck!
post #17 of 30
I had the same problem here with DH. When DS was a newborn, I wanted to wait until I had more time to research. He refused, and DS has now had most of his shots against my wishes. As you can imagine, this (among other things) has made things extremely difficult between us. We have been to counseling for 2+ years, I don't feel I have forgiven him for forcing the shots and I have not forgiven myself for allowing it.

So it's really important that you both only agree to vaccinate if you are both OK with it. Watching the Dr. Jay Gordon DVD really helped open DH's eyes. He finally realized that DS is not going to die if he doesn't get every single shot. He is still pro-vax but it did help. (I don't mind pro-vax but as long as pro-vax means informed and lots of research from various sides, which he has not done)

Others have posted good links. Will she read the insidevaccines one? She cannot argue with it as biased because all info comes from the CDC and scientific studies.

It sounds like she will listen to doctors. How about these doctors?

Dr. Sheri Tenpenny (video linked from my website)
Dr. Jay Gordon
Dr. Sears (I haven't read his vaccine book and heard it has misinformation, but he does have a great article on Mothering about aluminum)
Dr. Lauren Feder (book, mostly non-biased but may have some misinformation)
Dr. Boyd Haley (mercury expert)
list http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=755515
list http://www.mothering.com/discussions...d.php?t=995169 post 4
doc quotes (you will have to verify quotes): http://www.care2.com/c2c/share/detail/529621
List of no vax friendly docs: http://www.cafemom.com/group/4388/fo...List_Directory
Dr. Frank Engley: http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/08/dr-frank-engley.html
Dr. Andrew Mouldon: http://brainguardmd.com/
Dr. Bernadine Healy (former head of NIH): not anti-vax, but...http://www.ageofautism.com/2008/09/olmsted-of-auti.html
Dr. Jon Poling: a highly respected neurologist. Daughter Hannah was vaccine injured and they won in vaccine court. He now speaks out about vaccine safety and more studies needed: http://www.ajc.com/opinion/content/o...nged_0313.html

Those are the only ones I know of off the top of my head. If a doc is pro or selective vax they don't usually shout it from the rooftops for obvious reasons.

Oh, and going the other way:

--Dr. Renee Jenkins of the AAP says that the 3% of children damaged by vaccines is acceptable. Isn't that nice? :
--Dr. David Tayloe, current head of the AAP, said that he never had a child in his practice damaged by vaccines. What he fails to mention, conveniently, is that his father had a huge judgement awarded against him for vaccine damage to a child. Not exactly an outright lie on Tayloe's part but...
--Dr. Paul Offit is an outspoken critic of anyone anti or selective/delay vax. He has made millions off the second Rotovirus vaccine.
post #18 of 30
ophelia, great list of anti-vax docs in us! thanks for the link!
post #19 of 30
You're welcome, they are not all anti-vax but do speak out against misinformation and the need for more studies, etc.
post #20 of 30
My suggestion is to search for an alternative friendly ped in your area. If she take the doctors words as gospel, then try to find a doctor for your child that is more open minded to alternatives. When you go to the peds office ask them questions about the safty of vaxes and maybe you can find a doctor that will give your wife some real info. Otherwise it sounds like an uphill battle for you. Good luck.
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