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Should we pull her out?

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
So I have posted on here before about my dd’s struggles with her new French Montessori school. Dw & I like the school, it seems like a lovely place, caring, creative, great efforts to foster community among the kids etc. We really like dd’s teacher who we feel is responsive to our concerns, sensitive to dd`s needs and really trying to work with us to help dd have a good experience.

But…we are now 6 weeks in and dd does NOT like the school. She still cries 3 out of 5 mornings at drop off, and if we tell her she has to go to school in the morning her whole demeanour changes from cheerful & chatty to angry. She talks about how hard it is that none of the other kids can talk to her (except for one girl who is bilingual, most of the students are unilingual francophone, or at least are not encouraged to speak English in class). She is anxious about school everyday, feels she doesn`t have any friends. Basically it is a huge source of stress in her life.

But…she does seem to like specific activities, likes the fact that she is learning French, likes that she will eventually be bilingual.

I think we underestimated how hard the language thing would be. She is a very verbal child who loves to talk, and I think taking that away from her is a bigger deal than we could have anticipated. Add to that the structure of Montessori which is a big change, and the fact that there is one teacher for 16 students (a very high ratio) and we think dd feels lost. According to the teacher, she cries at school at least 3-4 times per week as well.
I feel like we are ruining school for her. She’s not quite four and dislikes it this much?

Of course if we pull her out, we are out of options—there are no other preschools in a reasonable distance and we do not want to drive 25 min plus with the toddler. We could pull her out now & try her again in September. I am a WOHM right now, so it’s my partner who’d have to deal with filling her days with activities, and she is an intense, demanding almost 4 yo. We also have a 1 year old at home who takes lots of time & energy. And I am not the one who is home, so I don`t really feel like it’s fair to dw & dd2 to insist. But….she is clearly unhappy. What should we do…we have agreed to re-evaluate again at Easter to see how she is doing then. We may also ask for a meeting with the teacher. What are your thoughts?
post #2 of 11
I would ask for a meeting with the teacher right away. If between the 4 of you, you can't make school something she is genuinely happy to do-taking her out might be the only option.
It might just be that this is not the school for her.
post #3 of 11

I would be inclined

to schedule a meeting with your dd's teacher to put your mind at ease that pulling her out is the right way to go or figure out a way for the language aspect to not destroy the enjoying school. Learning and discovering should be fun and your dd is still little and sounds very unhappy.
post #4 of 11
Okay... we're crossposting I'm the parent at home. I just posted the same questions from my perspective in the general school forum. See my perspective there...
post #5 of 11
I kept quiet on the idea of a language immersion classroom when I saw your post originally. I'll say what I think here.

I have 2 things I want to share. Interestingly, I'll start with the French one.

We had a girl in our school a few years ago that came to us not knowing any English. She was from France and her parents had just moved to America. She was 3. I didn't know her then...I came when she was in kindergarten. She was already fluent in English. I am curious how easy it was for her to learn and I never asked, but I do know it took a while for her to learn English, but she was finally fluent in it by the time I saw her (though with a really cute accent). Part of it, though, was she was also in an English speaking culture where it was not just the school that required her to learn, but pretty much her entire environment. Cincinnati, Ohio and the surrounding area is not exactly known for its foreign population.

Let me give a little different perspective and thought, though. I teach in Taiwan now. I do not feel that an English only environment would be good for children here. I think the most important thing a child needs to be able to do is communicate their needs to the caregiver. There are times here in Taiwan when a child is really trying to tell me something and between my little Chinese and their little English and a lot of TPR, we just can't seem to connect on what is needed.

That said, I do know there are children that would thrive in an all foreign language program. I remember my former neighbor went when she was in preschool to one and she loved it. But I think we have to ask ourselves one important question that should be asked of any program - is this program meeting the needs of my child?

It sounds like it might not be. It might be a fantastic program, but I'm wondering if it's a right fit for your child. We should be careful not to do things because it sounds like it should be perfect. We need to be sure to do things and make our decisions because it is a good match - not because it should be a good match.
post #6 of 11
Thread Starter 
Thanks Matt-as always I really appreciate your perspective.
Fwiw, the teacher speaks to her in English and about 1/3 of the class is anglophone, but she still finds it very stressful.
She had a good day today after a traumatic drop off, and seems to genuinely be showing a lot more interest in French & in the other kids at school... but she also dreads going...
post #7 of 11
Just to add more perspective...

My husband is Polish and speaks (though not exclusively), Polish to our children. We live in the U.S. and participate in Polish speaking opportunities where possible (weekly playgroup, neighbors w/ children, etc.). My in-laws as well as my dh's entire family are still in Poland and we visit at least once a year.

Since the children are getting older, and it was apparent that they are nowhere near fluent, we have started (last year) enrolling them in przedschole (preschool/daycare) while in Poland for the summers. We assumed that even if spending several weeks/months in that country surrounded by the language, their skills would not improve unless they had an intrinsic motivation to learn to speak more. So, we put them with native Polish speaking children that they would want to play with and voila! Vocabulary and sentence construction improved drastically after a 4 week stint.

We are returning this summer for another 4-6 week stint and both older children will be enrolled (ds age 4, dd age 2.5). They typically go from roughly 9 to 3 each day, and it is more a play based preschool than an M school (which they attend here in the states). The owner/director is my husband's cousin, so there is a family connection, we are VERY comfortable leaving our children in her and her staff's hands despite the non-M approach they take there. And, the teacher's in the classroom both speak limited English, so if there were a real problem, communication could occur.

Now, onto how my son handled it... In general, he loved the opportunity to play with other kids. Keep in mind we are visiting his grandparents, so opportunities to play are limited. There were several days when he was frustrated//tired upon returning. There were several days when he did not want to attend, cried, etc. Usually he and my husband (who did drop-off) would go together with the understanding that he'd not stay if not enjoying himself. He always stayed. He did not make close friends while there, and I'm anxious to see how it goes this summer, as the 4 year old is a much more social child than the 3 year old. He did attend part of the week they were there in Jan of this year as well, and while he enjoyed playing, he didn't want to go every day. The kids were all friends with each other, and he was the outsider, kwim? This summer he and his sister will begin at the same time, and it is a transitional time at the school b/c of the holidays, so that should help.

For us, not speaking the language is not an option, so we are willing to deal with some growing pains while doing what we can to improve their speaking skills. We'll be there 6 weeks this summer, and if that proves too short a time, will lengthen it in future summers. It is tough! I know he would often be more cranky than normal at the end of a long day trying to communicate. We try to just go with it, and push through... As his vocabulary increased, his comfort level increased as well. He is an extremely friendly child and wants to speak with everyone. I'll be watching out for how my dd reacts, as she is much more reserved. Right now her receptive skills are far beyond her speaking skills...

Now I'm rambling - but anyway I wanted you to know that others are immersing for similar reasons, and at least we plan to continue despite the 'pain'. He still loves school (M here and przedschole there) and talks with joy about both, so I don't think we've ruined it in his mind. Ultimately the decision is up to you, but if it is truly a skill she MUST have, then continuing is probably the best course of action (or moving to a French speaking area!)
post #8 of 11
Thread Starter 
Thanks Heather for your perspective.
I should add that we do live in a French speaking area, in Canada. Our community is about 40/60 English/French. But most of our social circle is anglophone, as is all of our extended family. One of the things I really struggle with is that I do speak French as a 2nd language, use it at work etc. and I worry that I haven't done enough to expose dd to the language through speaking it to her myself. She really doesn't want to go, and asks one of us to come with her each day. As I work, and my dw is home with our 1 yo, it's not really an option. I do try to go with her on my day off though. Another problem is that there are at least 4 other anglophones in the class and they all speak English together, which I think is drawing out the whole learning process....

We spoke with the teacher who both confirmed that she is having a hard time & also offered to do "anything it takes" to make it work for us. We are so lucky in having a very caring & responsive teacher. We are currently considering dropping her to part time (2-3 days/wk) so she still has some of the benefits of exposure to school & language but less stress....we'll see! sigh...this is very hard.
post #9 of 11
Thread Starter 
I should add that we are wondering if waiting until September (when she would be 4.5) and starting her then would help. It's another option we are considering. In the interim, I would put much more effort into her building up her French comprehension.

Of course one mom I talked to today said that full days is what she needs because it would provide so many more socialization opportunities, but there's no way we are willing to go there right now.
post #10 of 11
I'm reading... no advice but just support to you. It's such a tough one!
post #11 of 11
Thread Starter 
Just writing to update. I went along to dd's school today at the invitation of the teacher. Dd was counting down all week, and was very upset at every drop off .
Well, today was a huge eye opener for me. I still like the school overall, the teacher and what I see of Montessori in the class.
And I feel really strongly that my little girl is lost there
The class is too big (16 kids + 1 teacher), too noisy & rowdy (2-3 really challenging kids), and there are way too few opportunities to learn the language. When the teacher talks to the class, she translates for my daughter, and a large number of the kids speak English. There's an almost 5 yo who is having a hard time at home & is acting out including at our daughter. I found it overwhelming being in the larger class environment during the work period because of the noise & different personalities
So...we are thinking part time, but I`m really uncertain.........
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