Does anyone else get sick of the mommy contest? - Page 3

[dinahx]

Yes, I don't think we have to answer to anyone!

However, I agree with Super Glue Mommy too: DS is no where near DVD free, but I can also admit that it is BETTER for children to be DVD-free if possible. That is what I mean by agreeing on best practices. Will the DVDs kill my child? Probably not, and they are great for me as a SAHM mama without family around or a car. However, I can still wish we were DVD-free and admire mamas who have made that commitment.

However, I do have situations where, for example, my BFF thinks DVDs are horrible and a total cop out and tells me so, however, I would never bring up the fact that I have nursed for three years so far (child led weaning) and she only nursed for one (very mother led), kwim? So I think a lot of it is in the personality of the person. There are best practices, but then there is trying to make someone else feel bad.

I think we are all trying to do what is best for our families! <3

[poiyt]

I think this issue is multifold....

First in regards to seeing it more online...I think it is the nature of an online community. Especialyl MDC. People come here searching for opinions, searching for advice - so thats what others give - and that advice can very much differ from person to person. Thats where you get the so in so is crunchier than so in so...because it comes across in their advice. When you go into specific forums (GD, for example) You are going to get more checklist type things - because there are things that ARE definately GD and things that ARENT..so whether or not you practice GD is dependent on that "checklist". Of course there are things that fall in the middle (time outs) and those are constantly being discussed.

Further, there are some threads that arent seeking advice or help - but its hard to separate these. Unless they are..something to the effect of my preemie gained 4lbs-yay! or whatever - in those cases you'll find the thread filled with congrats and personal anecdotes and what not. You dont find birth stories challenged, though you know that some people reading others' birth stories are thinking "why did they do it that way" "have they ever heard of this" "did they know that..." but most women (most people) know thats not the place to do it. If someone posted 'Im trying to process what happened during my birth' that thread would certainly be open to opinion - see the difference?

IRL you dont have these kinds of opinion based advice seeking discussions - and if you do, you do get advice (feed baby formula so they will sleep better - or if you have AP friends - its okay to wear them for their whole nap) Its just different in real life because there isnt 10,000 people waitint to give you their opinion - in real life its just the people you chose to tell.

Secondly, I think the competitiveness is okay - in a sense. But I dont see it as competitiveness (except the...why isnt your baby crawling type things...thats just insane and I dont participate in that...Im referring to the AP, crunchy, cloth diaper whatever)..Obviously, the way I parent is the way I think is right. I DO think cloth diapers are better than sposies. I DO think BF is better then FF...etc..etc etc. And if the opportunity arises I do look at it as my right/responsibility to tell people these things. Given that the situation is appropriate. If we were talking about politics for example, I wouldnt hide the fact that I support the green party - we would have an intelligent conversation about the party differences. It is my right to express my opinion, and yes, it is my hope to convert people - because afterall, I do think it is the right way to do things. If you chose not to listen or be "converted" than to me (maybe this is just me) Im able to be okay with it, not be offended, and not argue. I dont go around telling random people how I do things, but if the opportunity arises, or I am asked - I do. I think I should.

Am I a perfect parent? No. Can I admit that I have learned things when others have tried to "convert" me to their way of thinking - hell yes. I am thankful they tried to persuade. But, to those I chose not to believe - I also hope they arent offended.

Did any of this make sense?

[Super Glue Mommy]

Originally Posted by dinahx

Yes, I don't think we have to answer to anyone!

However, I agree with Super Glue Mommy too: DS is no where near DVD free, but I can also admit that it is BETTER for children to be DVD-free if possible. That is what I mean by agreeing on best practices. Will the DVDs kill my child? Probably not, and they are great for me as a SAHM mama without family around or a car. However, I can still wish we were DVD-free and admire mamas who have made that commitment.

However, I do have situations where, for example, my BFF thinks DVDs are horrible and a total cop out and tells me so, however, I would never bring up the fact that I have nursed for three years so far (child led weaning) and she only nursed for one (very mother led), kwim? So I think a lot of it is in the personality of the person. There are best practices, but then there is trying to make someone else feel bad.

I think we are all trying to do what is best for our families! <3

Well put, and I agree with you on the best practices thing, but I can understand why this is a hard thing for some people. Some parents find it really hard to say "I know this way is better but it just doesn't work for us"

A great example is breastfeeding. You have the mama's who are able to and the mama's who arent. and the mama's who do are proud. and they may also have reasons they thinking formula can't compare. then you have those who formula feed in 3 catagories - those who believe its better then breastmilk, those who know breastmilk is better but couldnt breastfeed but arent offended by anyone saying breast is best, and those who are hurting because they were unable to breastfeed and possibly dealing with a lot of self guilt who take a breastfeeding mothers pride and take it as an attack against them. Of those who FF and know breast is best you have the one side who have no problem with saying breastmilk is better, and then you have those who feel condemned by anyone saying such a thing even if they do think its true.

For me, I am honest about what I think is good and what I think is bad. I do think some things are better then others, and MANY things that I think are better are things I didnt do or don't currently do. but I can still say they are better. Others can say its better and I don't feel like they are in competition with me. And who knows maybe they are, but I'm not really concerned with that. I am focused on myself. I have to choose to be offended and I don't. So I dont really see there being a mommy contest because I don't look at it that way. I think people only get sick of the mommy contest when they choose to take it as a contest. Yes - some people may intend it that way, but we don't *have* to take it that way. its up to us. I think of it like maybe there might be people in a race with me but im not racing them - im just running a marathon. I don't realize the other person is trying to "out do" me even if they pass me saying "hey see ya at the finish line!" because it just doesn't matter to me. I can only be upset about losing a race if I think I'm in a race. And if I don't care about losing or winning, then I don't need to care if someone else thinks they are "beating" me. they can think that, I dont mind. And while I run my marathon I have no problem thinking - oh look, that person just passed me. They are faster. no biggie.

poiyt you make sense to me. There have even been times people tried to convert me and it didnt work until years later lol. and if they think "i told ya so" that wouldnt bother me. I kind of want to find them and say "hey you were right! wish I had listened sooner!" maybe im an optimist or something lol I dont know but I dont get bothered by these things.

[sewchris2642]

Originally Posted by journeymom

I have felt that way, especially when I was a new mom. But my oldest is 14 years old, and there came a point when I noticed no one was actually challenging my parenting decisions, it was all self-imposed. My anxiety and my high expectations for myself fed it. I also might be a little oblivious.

People who offer up information about what their kids have done recently might be competing, or they might not. I know that when I share my kids' milestones with friends it's simply because I like talking about my kids. Sometimes I share worrying things, sometimes I share stuff I'm proud of or just simply amazed about. Just the wonder of growing children.

There is one thing that touches my insecure mom raw nerve, here at MDC, and that's when moms share that their kids started reading when they were like, three years old, and reading chapter books in pre-school and their fourth graders are reading the Iliad. Frankly, I didn't believe it at first.

There is one thing that touches my insecure mom raw nerve, here at MDC, and that's when moms share that their kids started reading when they were like, three years old, and reading chapter books in pre-school and their fourth graders are reading the Iliad. Frankly, I didn't believe it at first.

I could. Angela was reading at age 4. On the other hand, Dylan didn't start reading until this year when he jumped 2 whole grades in reading. Dylan's teachers were concerned but I wasn't. Just as I suspected, Dylan started reading when he was reading and when he was able to read the books that he was interested in.

[AislinCarys]

Originally Posted by AislinCarys

I think most mums are just insecure. They want to be the best parents possible to their child, and they have to convince themselves that they are doing ok. I know I do. Unfortunately that results in us comparing our children and how we bring them up.

"My baby crawls now, is yours crawling yet?" "I must be feeding him enough!" (said with a laugh about a porky baby, to me, who've had supply issues, and with a very petite DD ) "I couldn't forgive myself if she got sick. How can you not immunize your sweet little one?" "He's so advanced, we already started solids!"

So this was my earlier post, and obviously I didn't really read through it before posting! I hate this comparison, this competition, but I know I do it too, at least in my mind, as I try to avoid it (and still be nice) when out with other mums. It isn't easy. And I wish they wouldn't say these things, as they always make me feel so sad, like I'm a bad mother.

[Treasuremapper]

Yes, it's exasperating. I promise you that you can create some new friendships and seek out friends who don't play those mindgames. I unsubscribed from a dozen local parenting lists about a year ago, and it was the best decision I ever made. Of course, I still go to MDC and WWOW and a few other boards.

I also cut out a lot of "friends" from my life at the same time.

As a result of those decisions, I felt really lonely for a while. But ya know what? I got really choosy about who I spent my energy on and found new delightful fun friends, both online and in real life, who don't make themselves feel good by interrogating me about my handsoap and explaining why the handsoap they chose is better. I do not have time for that kind of stuff and I always choose joy and fun over competitiveness.

I learned to be too busy instead of offering explanations.

You deserve to have joy and be happy and enjoy your children. If other people are not in touch with that, then it's time to create a new set of friends, online and IRL.

Good luck, mama! I'm rooting for you.

[karika]

I don't have any people IRL that compare milestones with me, so I can't address that issue. However, I do know what you mean. I even felt somewhat vindicated for my parenting choices when my dd1 was speaking in complete spontaneous self created sentences months ahead of other children her age, but then I met another AP family who had a 1 yr old that barely used words at all... so dang if i know....but I did see a few posts about online issues (not the 'for instance' issues i have below, they are made up) that made me want to comment. I am not sure how to do the multi quote thing yet though, so I will just make some comments. If a person says they are committed to bfing into toddler years but then goes on to state that they are trying to night wean to get sleep, then you find out they WOH then it is real hard to give them advice. because the set up they have is working against itself and you want to tell them. You want to tell them that if they WOH and they are committed to bfing then the child should be expected to nurse non stop all night long since that is the only time the boobies are available. Or if they say they are having problems with low supply and it comes out that they are WOH and / or not cosleeping (or even sleeping with dc in same room), you want to tell them that their body is just doing what comes naturally. It thinks the baby has died, so it is cutting off the milk supply. Then there may be a person that states a child self weaned at a young age, then it comes out that bottles were given to the child at a young age, or that they stopped feeling let down (milk has most likely dried up), or that the child was later found to have a dairy intolerance and mom never gave up dairy while nursing, or too many solids were given. Or if a person says they are raising ecologically and not sure why their period came back so soon, and then you find out they have a swing that the dc naps in daily.... you want to tell them that is not ecological childrearing then..... I have been blunt all my life, and online is no exception. I too believe we can come to a consensus, a set of guidelines for AP/ CC/ NFL for how to treat babies. For instance, we all know babies are born expecting to be held (I think we all know this anyway). Many people choose to wear them in a sling or wrap, while others of us are uncomfortable with that until they are older, so we just keep them in arms. so when someone says their small baby cannot stand to be held, we have to know it is another issue and we should be able to help them with it without them thinking we are attacking them or saying they are a bad parent. in this case I would say first, are you wearing any scents at all? if not then i would suggest the baby likes to be held differently than they are trying, for instance, dd2 only wants to be held against my shoulder or standing upright on her own feet. If I hold her cradle hold, she cries and screams and arches and it seems she doesn't want to be held, but it is just the type of hold, or in some babies it is that you are attempting to hold them while sitting and they need you to stand and walk around to help them get their energy out. I think so often, I wish i could mind meld to this person, or they could read all the stuff pertinent to this situation in order to reach the outcome they say they desire. To paraphrase quote an analogy from my favorite author, "If you say you want to go to San Jose, but you are headed to Boston, is the gas station attendant criticizing you by giving directions?" and now i will leave off, as i do not think this is what the OP had in mind, but like I said I saw a few posts about online behavior and these are my thoughts on it.

[Super Glue Mommy]

Originally Posted by karika

"If you say you want to go to San Jose, but you are headed to Boston, is the gas station attendant criticizing you by giving directions?"

I love it!

[sewchris2642]

Originally Posted by AbbieB

Because of the subtle pressure that is everywhere in our culture it is an easy trap to fall into. I sometimes think Mommy wars are encouraged by the media. I mean, feeling low or deficient about your mothering sells stuff.

I also wonder about well baby visits. I have known many mommas IRL, especially with their first, who come back from a check up completely second guessing themselves because of all of the "is your baby doing this" type questions and some of the advise that their doctor gave them.

I agree that some people just need to feel like their kid is faster, smarter, bigger, etc... in order to feel better about their parenting.

I am often able to avoid getting caught up in it by reminding myself that I am not responsible for my kids growth curve, temperament and achievements. It's not something I do or don't do that makes my child petite, spirited, or really good at handstands.

Personaly, I like well baby checks. It gives me and the dr a base line for when the kids are sick. It gives a base line for early intervention if needed. The milestones chart saved me from putting my foot in my mouth many times. For example, I had assumed that all kids walked by 10 months. My neighbor's dd wasn't walking at her 1st birthday. The chart showed me that there was a wide range in walking. And that it wasn't something to scare my neighbor about unless her dd was 18 months-2years old.

[frontierpsych]

I also just thought-- I'm sure there are people who think I'm being critical when I give advice on *what worked for me* (I only do it when someone else brings up a problem, not just to toot my own "good mommy" horn or whatever, lol!) I'd hope that people see my advice as well intentioned and not critical, I never mean for it to be. I have friends on every point in the parenting spectrum I think, and everyone has different problems to face, some more than others. I try to keep that in mind when I give advice so no one thinks I'm trying to be snarky or act superior. I take advice as well, as long as it goes along with my personal parenting philosophy. I think our insecurities tend to make us take these things as criticism sometimes when they're not intended that way.

[ChampagneBlossom]

I think I was "lucky" in a way because my first child is not at all, shall we say, advanced. He's actually quite behind in most areas. There's no way I could have "competed" his accomplishments against other kids his age. (Well, physically he was doing stuff early/normal but nothing else.) And I get this sick pleasure of when other people around me are starting the "my child is doing THIS!" and "my child is doing THAT!" to kind of reverse it and blatantly say that my kid is NOWHERE NEAR doing that. (Not so much now that DS understands more; I don't want his feelings hurt, but when he was much younger.) It kind of throws off the dynamic of having to one up each other and I get these kind of looks from them. But once I act normal and not... ashamed or anything... then maybe some of the pressure is lifted off of them too? I don't think I'm a bad mother because my son didn't xyz when his peers did. He's an individual. Shrug. And if they can tell I'm not feeling badly about it, for some reason it always diffuses the bragging. (Or maybe they just feel sorry for me? Who knows... I don't feel sorry for myself, so they shouldn't either. ) I mean really, what IS the point of the bragging? I just can't figure it out.

[limabean]

Originally Posted by ChampagneBlossom

I mean really, what IS the point of the bragging? I just can't figure it out.

I guess it depends on your relationship with the person you're talking to, and on your definition of "bragging." I care about my friends and am interested in their lives, so when something exciting (for them) happens, I enjoy sharing in their excitement.

If they get a promotion at work, or run 8 miles for the first time, or sell a painting, or are excited because their baby took hir first step, then I'm thrilled to hear about it, and do not consider it bragging at all. If they shared those things with me in a condescending or comparative way, I guess I'd classify it as bragging (although I wouldn't cultivate friendships with people who treated others that way), but it seems that some people consider the simple sharing of information/excitement as bragging. When my friends share stuff about what their kids are doing, I know they don't intend it as a comparison with my kid, and I just listen and tell them that's wonderful, and I mean it!

[Storm Bride]

Originally Posted by karika

For instance, we all know babies are born expecting to be held (I think we all know this anyway). Many people choose to wear them in a sling or wrap, while others of us are uncomfortable with that until they are older, so we just keep them in arms. so when someone says their small baby cannot stand to be held, we have to know it is another issue and we should be able to help them with it without them thinking we are attacking them or saying they are a bad parent. in this case I would say first, are you wearing any scents at all? if not then i would suggest the baby likes to be held differently than they are trying, for instance, dd2 only wants to be held against my shoulder or standing upright on her own feet. If I hold her cradle hold, she cries and screams and arches and it seems she doesn't want to be held, but it is just the type of hold, or in some babies it is that you are attempting to hold them while sitting and they need you to stand and walk around to help them get their energy out.

And, this is exactly the kind of thing I hate. For quite a while dd hated being held, carried or worn - hated it. She hated it when I was sitting. She hated it when I was rocking. She hated it when I was walking. She hated it. She hated it if I was quiet. She hated it if I was singing or talking softly. She hated it if I was talking in a normal tone of voice. She hated it if I held her cradle hold...on her tummy...up to my shoulder...every other way I could think of to hold her. She hated being held. I beat the crap out of myself wondering what I was doing wrong, precisely because of viewpoints like this. She didn't want to be held. Period. That's what I was doing wrong - trying to hold her! She never even nursed for more than about 7-8 minutes at a time, and that was only when she was ravenous. She didn't want to stay still long enough to nurse (I was still leaking when she was over 1.5 years old, because she never established a feeding pattern of any kind).

So...I guess "best practice" was to continue to torment her, because I thought that was for the best? Different babies...different parents...different needs.

As for this:

"If you say you want to go to San Jose, but you are headed to Boston, is the gas station attendant criticizing you by giving directions?"

Of course not...but when you've driven to San Jose multiple times, and tried different routes and know which one works best for you and your car, the gas station attendant is being an annoying PITA by insisting he knows better than you, even though he's never been to San Jose himself.

[mom2my3boyz]

I try not to let it bother me although that is hard to do. I encounter that kind of thing on a daily basis. It always makes me question my decisions.

[Super Glue Mommy]

Originally Posted by Storm Bride

Of course not...but when you've driven to San Jose multiple times, and tried different routes and know which one works best for you and your car, the gas station attendant is being an annoying PITA by insisting he knows better than you, even though he's never been to San Jose himself.

if you know, then why are you asking for directions. I get annoyed when people ask for directions they don't plan to take. when people say they are lost, which way should I go, and I say "how about this way" and they say it wont work. I say "how about this way" and they say that wont work either. and they will keep saying that until you say "oh just keep going the way you are going and you will get there eventually" even if its not true. I think the example you were giving though is good, when talking about someone giving advice you never asked for.

[sewchris2642]

Originally Posted by karika

I don't have any people IRL that compare milestones with me, so I can't address that issue. However, I do know what you mean. I even felt somewhat vindicated for my parenting choices when my dd1 was speaking in complete spontaneous self created sentences months ahead of other children her age, but then I met another AP family who had a 1 yr old that barely used words at all... so dang if i know....but I did see a few posts about online issues (not the 'for instance' issues i have below, they are made up) that made me want to comment. I am not sure how to do the multi quote thing yet though, so I will just make some comments. If a person says they are committed to bfing into toddler years but then goes on to state that they are trying to night wean to get sleep, then you find out they WOH then it is real hard to give them advice. because the set up they have is working against itself and you want to tell them. You want to tell them that if they WOH and they are committed to bfing then the child should be expected to nurse non stop all night long since that is the only time the boobies are available. Or if they say they are having problems with low supply and it comes out that they are WOH and / or not cosleeping (or even sleeping with dc in same room), you want to tell them that their body is just doing what comes naturally. It thinks the baby has died, so it is cutting off the milk supply. Then there may be a person that states a child self weaned at a young age, then it comes out that bottles were given to the child at a young age, or that they stopped feeling let down (milk has most likely dried up), or that the child was later found to have a dairy intolerance and mom never gave up dairy while nursing, or too many solids were given. Or if a person says they are raising ecologically and not sure why their period came back so soon, and then you find out they have a swing that the dc naps in daily.... you want to tell them that is not ecological childrearing then..... I have been blunt all my life, and online is no exception. I too believe we can come to a consensus, a set of guidelines for AP/ CC/ NFL for how to treat babies. For instance, we all know babies are born expecting to be held (I think we all know this anyway). Many people choose to wear them in a sling or wrap, while others of us are uncomfortable with that until they are older, so we just keep them in arms. so when someone says their small baby cannot stand to be held, we have to know it is another issue and we should be able to help them with it without them thinking we are attacking them or saying they are a bad parent. in this case I would say first, are you wearing any scents at all? if not then i would suggest the baby likes to be held differently than they are trying, for instance, dd2 only wants to be held against my shoulder or standing upright on her own feet. If I hold her cradle hold, she cries and screams and arches and it seems she doesn't want to be held, but it is just the type of hold, or in some babies it is that you are attempting to hold them while sitting and they need you to stand and walk around to help them get their energy out. I think so often, I wish i could mind meld to this person, or they could read all the stuff pertinent to this situation in order to reach the outcome they say they desire. To paraphrase quote an analogy from my favorite author, "If you say you want to go to San Jose, but you are headed to Boston, is the gas station attendant criticizing you by giving directions?" and now i will leave off, as i do not think this is what the OP had in mind, but like I said I saw a few posts about online behavior and these are my thoughts on it.

I think though what people forget is that AP as developed by Dr. Sears is simply to listen and respond to your child. So when a child doesn't want to co-sleep, doesn't want to be held or carried, self weans to a bottle at 9 months, wants to be left alone to cry herself to sleep the mom is held to blame and accussed of not being AP. When she is simply responding to what her child wants.

[tinyblackdot]

Originally Posted by sewchris2642

I think though what people forget is that AP as developed by Dr. Sears is simply to listen and respond to your child. So when a child doesn't want to co-sleep, doesn't want to be held or carried, self weans to a bottle at 9 months, wants to be left alone to cry herself to sleep the mom is held to blame and accussed of not being AP. When she is simply responding to what her child wants.