Nursing student with intact son.....

[notkept]

Hi, I'm Stacey. I've never posted in this specific forum, but have lurked for years and have sporadically posted on other MDC forums.

My son is 3.5, he is intact. My Icelandic friend asked me when I found out that my second child was a boy "Well, here's the important question: You're not circing are you?" I never thought about it, really, before that. My husband at the time was circed. I'd never even seen an intact penis. But, I started doing a lot of research and learned that I was so not on board. My XH wanted it, and I told him if he would do the reading and come up with a compelling reason OTHER than the Locker Room syndrome that we'd do it. He didn't and couldn't. Turns out too that my dad is intact and strongly advocated through my mother for my son to stay intact.

Well, now, I'm in nursing school. I've finished all my prereqs and have been accepted to the program and start clinicals in the fall. I just finished taking my CNA class (required for my program) and my instructor was one of the nursing instructors and TOTALLY ignorant about intact penises. When I told her that no medical association recommends circing, she "begged to differ." Uh uh. Nope, none, even some insurance companies won't cover it anymore. This was backed up by my classmate with a circed son that shared that, yes, she had to pay out of pocket. This shut up my teacher, but of course she just moved on rather than explore the issue. After our final, our class went out together for a night of debauchery. One of the ladies asked my why my son was not circed. She sounded a little aggressive at first but was totally open to what I had to say and another classmate, male, backed up all that I said to her. ("Are you kidding me!? I'm Mexican! We don't do that!" lol)

My question is: Moving forward in to the program HOW do I disseminate this information? I can not alienate my instructors. This is KEY. Nursing is competitive and tough, people get kicked out on day one if they don't pass a test with a 100%. I will feel really badly about not injecting some of the truths of circs in to the discussion when we are talking about unleasing health care pros on to a world that is coming up 50/50. What is the best approach? I'm sure that some of you are HCPs. How do you address this? How have all of you approached authority figures regarding this or any other controversial issues?

Also, can you link me to THE sites? Especially the actual AAP statement on circ.

TIA!

Stacey (and Ian and Francesca)

[Nandi]

Hi and welcome! So glad to have more nurses on board! You can write research papers on the topic when you are assigned a paper, you can choose it as a topic in your L&D clinical if you have a patient teaching assignment, and just talking about it like you are doing is very beneficial. Planting seeds! If you are a member of any nurse or parenting message boards you can post there, and if any parents ask you for your advice you know what to do! Here is the AAP's statement http://aappolicy.aappublications.org...rics;103/3/686
Please feel free to PM me anytime.

[Greg B]

Originally Posted by notkept

My question is: Moving forward in to the program HOW do I disseminate this information? I can not alienate my instructors. This is KEY. Nursing is competitive and tough, people get kicked out on day one if they don't pass a test with a 100%. I will feel really badly about not injecting some of the truths of circs in to the discussion when we are talking about unleasing health care pros on to a world that is coming up 50/50. What is the best approach? I'm sure that some of you are HCPs. How do you address this? How have all of you approached authority figures regarding this or any other controversial issues?

Also, can you link me to THE sites? Especially the actual AAP statement on circ.

TIA!

Stacey (and Ian and Francesca)

In your situation, I would refer them to this site:

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcision.org/

and especially this document on that site:

http://www.doctorsopposingcircumcisi...yStatement.pdf

That way you are referring them to other authority figures, and to information that is on par with the information they have trust in.

Regards

[Fellow Traveler]

Originally Posted by notkept

My question is: Moving forward in to the program HOW do I disseminate this information? I can not alienate my instructors. This is KEY. Nursing is competitive and tough, people get kicked out on day one if they don't pass a test with a 100%. I will feel really badly about not injecting some of the truths of circs in to the discussion when we are talking about unleasing health care pros on to a world that is coming up 50/50. What is the best approach? I'm sure that some of you are HCPs. How do you address this? How have all of you approached authority figures regarding this or any other controversial issues?

Also, can you link me to THE sites? Especially the actual AAP statement on circ.

TIA!

Stacey (and Ian and Francesca)

Hi Stacy and welcome to the board. I think Nandi has provided some good avenues. Interjecting into the conversation as you've done and when the opportunity comes up choosing projects that might allow you to express that opinion. Hang around here learn as much as you can so that you can be ready to defend that position and I think you'll be in good shape. You might also want to contact some colleagues right here. I know that the member 'glongley' is a nurse and one of the primary members of the Colorado NOCIRC organization. She will have some good tips. Perhaps you could participate in a local NOCIRC group or start one up too? Please stick around don't be a stranger.

[glongley]

As a health care provider you will have the knowledge, skills, credibility, and opportunity to teach a lot of people about circumcision and the normal intact penis - parents, health care colleagues, and the general public. And it starts right now in nursing school.

Between doing papers, presentations, and projects relating to circumcision for your class requirements, and interacting informally with your fellow students outside of class as you described, you will already be getting others to think, and spreading good information around. Just making others realize that this is something to questions, not just follow blindly, is valuable.

You need to keep educating yourself too, so you have more and more of a grasp of the literature and the issues. http://www.cirp.org has a ton of background articles from medical journals, and I agree that the DOC Genital Integrity Position Statement mentioned above is an excellent source for all the arguments and references you might want to have at your finger tips. BTW, the In'tl Coalition for Genital Integrity also a position paper that takes a slightly different approach, but is also very good. http://www.icgi.org/Downloads/ICGIPositionPaper.pdf

What you seemed to be most concerned about is not "alienating" your instructors, and getting in trouble. Some may be quite misinformed and pro-circ, while others might be misinformed but very open to being educated, and others may already "get it". Just remember, you have the facts on your side.

If a professor says something in class that's wrong or pro-circ, you may get more mileage and less antagonism from them if you approach them outside of class and express your concern in a non-confrontational way for the accuracy of their information or the lack of presentation of some other sides of the picture. That way you do not put them on the spot in front of a whole class of people, which is likely to put them in a more defensive position. Bring some articles to educate them. Ask if you can do a brief presentation to the class on the points you think need to be aired. Try to make them an ally, no an enemy. Show them that you are passionate about what you are learning, and that you are willing to do the legwork to have good references and put together educational presentations. Show them how this information is important for good patient care. In the case of circumcision, parents are very poorly educated not only about the procedure itself, but about the normal penis and its care - which leads to lack of proper informed consent, regrets when parents find out more info later, unnecessary later circumcisions for bad care advice, etc. It's very much the nurse's role to determine and fill informational gaps for patients. All of these are important traits in nurses, and your instructors should be impressed by them, not made angry because of them.

You might want to start with some very non-controversial aspect of information-giving, like correct care of the intact penis. This does not get into the risk/benefits/ethics of the circ procedure itself, it is neutral, objective information that all nurses need to have for many age groups. Plus you can teach some about the structure, function, and development of the intact penis as you're talking about care, which normalizes the intact penis. Circ is so normalized in the mind of many medical professionals, and the intact penis is still the Unknown. We have to turn this around and help people realize that the intact penis is actually what's normal, another body part like any other, that deserves as much care and respect as any other.

I did do a presentation on intact care for all the OB/nursery nurses at my hospital a few years ago. I still have some materials from that. Feel free to pm me any time.

Good luck with your program, and thanks for being a voice for this issue.
Gillian

[latinalonestar]

I'm not a nurse but I wanted to say hello and welcome you to the board. I also wanted to give you a big for your efforts.

[GoodMomma]

I also start the nursing program this fall. We do maternity 2nd semester, so I'm glad I won't have to worry about this discussion for another year! I don't know.... if it comes up, which I'm sure it will, I'll say politely as possible the facts that I know. I also will 110% refuse to watch a circ being done! Whenever I do my clinicals for this part of the program, I pray everyone I deal with has girls or are informed mommies and leave their sons intact. Anyway, good luck with your schooling!

[Ryan124]

keep up the good fight

unfortunately, the BS is still propagated in american medical schools, which is where we'd expect only the most accurate and objective information to be upheld. unfortunately medicine here is still not 100% scientific in its approach and is even called an "art".

i've visited several types of doctors including a urologist and they've all told me that circumcision "has no effect on functioning at all." so basically, i can't get adequate help in this country if medical professionals don't think penile amputation is a problem. i have almost no pleasure sensations left. it's about a 0.5 out of 10. i can feel friction pain with clothing, which is the cause of the nerves becoming desensitized. if i were at the end of my life it wouldn't be so much of a problem but i think 29 is too young for this. the sensitivity has gone down my entire life and now it's gotten to the point where i don't even think about girls anymore. the only time i recall it really felt good was when i first discovered masturbation in elementary school. since then, it's been a steady decline. i've been trying to restore the past couple of months but i don't notice any improvement in sensation yet.

I think you're in a powerful position to enact change. You're on the inside of the beast. Until doctors think differently circumcision will continue. Most people don't like to think critically and prefer to follow the instruction of authorities. It's too late for me but if we can help save future generations it'll mean something.

I'm really glad everyone here is anti-circ. Most college-age folks (i.e. my facebook friends) don't give a damn about this, even when they've had kids. Most younger people only care about partying and having a good time. I wish doctors and all the other naysayers were right. I wish I could believe them because my life would be easier if this really were just all in my head (an MD referred me to a psychologist).

[Fi.]

Might want to get in touch with Nurses for the Rights of a Child. They'll probably have some good info for you.